State of Bliss/ James and Carrie Pearce

Working Artists! You are not alone! Listen to these entertaining and inspirational podcast conversations with working artists.

Carrie Pearce https://www.carriepearce.com/ experienced every artist's nightmare, a creative block. Fearing that her creativity was broken, she went back to school to teach and in the process, discovered her bliss. This metamorphosis propelled her forward into a new body of mixed media work.  James Pearce https://pearcepearce.com/ has been working with wood his entire life, inspired by the generations of woodworkers before him. James is fascinated with mechanisms and implements them into his aesthetic. He struggles with the two sides of his brain that argue between his work being functional versus sculptural. An interesting conversation with an amazing artist couple.


Visual artists Douglas Sigwarth https://www.sigwarthglass.com/ and Will Armstrong http://www.willarmstrongart.com/ co-host and discuss topics affecting working artists. Each episode is a deep dive into a conversation with a guest artist who shares their unique experiences as an independent professional artist. In today’s preamble, the hosts talk about commission shows, coming home with COVID, and another round of ankle surgery.


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Transcript

0:00
[Music]
0:11
welcome to the independent artist podcast sponsored by the National Association of Independent Artists also
0:18
sponsored by zapplication I'm will Armstrong and I'm a mixed media artist I'm Douglas sigworth glass blower join
0:25
our conversations with professional working artists
0:31
well Douglas here we are back at the independent artist podcast and I wasn't sure if I was going to make it back into my uh dirty little closet here why is
0:38
that it's been a yeah it's been a rough week um you may hear a little more gravel in my voice this week I'm I'm
0:43
still on Pax loid uh brought a little Co back from California with me when I came
0:49
the gift that keeps on giving right what a delight yeah my first time out to uh linta this is their second show of the
0:56
year the November offering versus the March offering which is kind of the classic show right uh yeah first time
1:03
first time out there actually for me and how did it go for you it went well uh I
1:09
feel lucky I've met a lot of people that I feel will like be uh kind of future
1:14
collectors um my end numbers weren't exactly what I wanted to be but I was delighted by the the show and the
1:21
setting and the people that I did talk to you ever have one of those shows I mean it's it's similar to like the kind
1:27
of the productive zero I guess it was [ __ ] you said was [ __ ] know this
1:32
was not though I feel like this was like they were they'd never seen me out there and they'd never seen my work it was a
1:38
completely new thing so it felt weird to be completely fresh sure to an audience
1:43
and and um for them to be like oh man and so yeah won won an award and uh yes
1:49
you did congrats on that man sold a nice piece and yeah yeah so it it was I feel
1:55
like it was a solid weekend and I'm excited to to go back in March well that's great
2:00
we had a prime spot at the show we were right at the entrance exit area and I
2:06
have to say I mean we did okay but the numbers of walking through the door
2:11
weren't that strong yeah I think the show was affected by incorrect weather forecasting we were supposed to get
2:17
hammered by wind suay and supposed to get some rain that never really appeared
2:22
and you know California rain in that part of the country it's it's a different Beast it's like um mhm it's a
2:30
little bit like New Mexico if they're expecting rain things kind of shut down so incorrect weather forecast we were
2:36
supposed to get 55 M hour gusts on Sunday and there was barely a breeze so
2:41
I think a lot of things were at play there so I think the thing with that crowd too is that area you've got let's
2:49
say the middle class retired folks who aren't living large they're living comfortably but they're not living large
2:56
but then there is a good amount of the population that have multiple homes and those are the people that we expect to
3:02
to frequent that show and the theory is that a lot of them just weren't in town because of how the holiday fell that
3:09
week so right it it's hard to say but I will say that a show like linta where
3:15
it's a commission based show where they take a percentage of our sales right that they kind of share in that that
3:22
pain so they want to fix those problems going down the road they want to figure out what didn't work and how can we fix
3:30
it cuz it affects their bottom line as much as it does our own absolutely they had a lot a lot writing on it and maybe
3:36
more so like you said than than uh typically I don't know how do you feel about a commission-based show like if
3:42
they're at at the bigger at at just as big of a risk as we are I I kind of don't mind it I don't know that I want
3:49
to base my whole year on that kind of format but um hitting a show or two with that the Oklahoma City model the linta
3:56
model I don't know that I mind it it's it it makes those guys work harder I think so I mean like you said it hurts
4:04
because when we do really well then that's a big chunk that comes out of
4:09
your bottom line you know going back and if you think of just the expenses and the booth Fe at let's say
4:16
more of a traditional show yeah you're putting in way more back but then you
4:21
don't have as much of the risk because let's say you don't sell as well your cut that you have to pay in is smaller
4:28
so I wouldn't want my he that way but I I can appreciate one or two sprinkled in
4:33
once in a while couple of dips at the well all right understood understood uh
4:38
well it was lovely to see you and Renee there um yeah absolutely we had a nice time it was great we got to spend some
4:43
time together and it was fun to go out to dinner and and get to see you and Trey and Helen yeah I got a nice little
4:50
spot right there next to Trey and Helen and and that was I just love those guys they're just positive energy and man in
4:57
spite of bringing Co back home I feel like it was a pretty positive experience overall absolutely this was kind of
5:02
funny though we we went to meet you guys for dinner that night and we know we're running a little late it's starting to
5:08
rain we're kind of rushing our way into the door and the guy who's at the door I
5:13
think it's the valet maybe it's the host I'm not sure he puts his hand up at my chest and says uh stop I'm like what
5:21
what what what I I see they're sitting right there I'm going to go you know join our table he goes you need to let
5:26
the lady go first and I'm like right so I was barreling ahead of Renee I was I
5:32
forgot my manners anyway so you're a cad we let her walk in first and then the
5:38
piece to resist on he says to me and please remove your hat I'm like but i'
5:44
never take off my hat I sleep in this hat have you seen this head God damn it
5:49
you got a fine head there sir you got an excellent skull I said I don't want to scare off these people with the
5:55
shine my mother-in-law is uh is definitely one of of these uh folks
6:01
that's that's a take your hat off at the table and my mom is too and you know old school and this was a very classic
6:06
Italian place like you know B and lasagna and egg par it was old school so
6:12
I kind of appreciated it it's funny when my mother-in-law does it we invited her to dinner we are just going to a
6:19
straight up bar where anything goes yeah it's called the otter you know it's got a big giant bar in the center pull tabs
6:27
you know and you're going to go get a a really good walleye sandwich a fried walleye sandwich you're going to go get
6:32
some you know a burger a couple of beers and we're like hey we've been on the dock all day we're going to the otter do
6:39
you guys want to come and you know of course they did they're great my mother-in-law's got a bad case of fomo
6:44
she doesn't want to miss out of anything so we're like Hey we're going to the otter for dinner she's like definitely we go and then she starts giving us a
6:50
hard time about our hats we're like um typically I'm with you uh I'm not going
6:56
to wear my hat at your dinner table but we're at a bar we've been on the dock all day we smell like fish ourselves so
7:03
forget it it's not happening that was hilarious that was really funny take your hat out be loud and proud about
7:09
that head there sigworth I was going to say there's so many like social norms that are kind of being thrown out the
7:15
window and I'm surprised that the whole Hat Thing got me was like get that hat
7:20
off your head dude yeah I went back to grade school and like the the priests and the nuns telling me to behave well
7:28
you looked very nice it's not like you had a nice sweater on and you and Renee looked lovely so since you came back
7:34
with Co did that mean your Thanksgiving plans all had to change and all that kind of stuff yeah we were actually
7:41
going to go to dinner at another artist's house um the lovely Allison
7:46
antelman for those folks out there name dropping um incredibly talented Jeweler
7:51
that lives here in Santa Fe her husband Eric and she and Eric are just incredible cooks and and they invited me
7:59
last year and I was so looking forward to it we were bummed but my wife stepped up to the plate and just made this
8:07
incredible meal luckily I never lost taste okay I've got so much work to do I
8:12
I I didn't want to risk long Co or anything so I got on the pael loid so I feel like I never really lost my sense
8:19
of smell and while I'm still positive and kind of weak by the end of the day
8:24
uh I'm kind of mostly over it but anyway just made an incredible meal so hats off to my lovely wife just was just the two
8:31
of us it was kind of sad yeah I wish she'd gone back to her family and just left my sick ass at home with a dogs but
8:38
you home to recover and not infect anyone else yeah I really honestly I'd rather I don't mind being sick by myself
8:44
it sucks but huge [ __ ] baby as you can imagine as we know from your first bout of CO as long as you have your
8:51
sweatpants you're fine yeah I sweatpants I had I had pajama pants I had flannels
8:57
I was you know in Stones hoodie I I was good there you go how about you guys
9:03
that was your Thanksgiving enough about me we had a we had a couple of really nice times you know with different family members on different dates but
9:09
the thing that I found pretty funny is one of our occasions I found out about a
9:15
new thing that exists and maybe it's always existed but I'm just learning about it now have you ever heard of like
9:22
a a Santa for hire kind of thing kind of like a you call the same number you get the the strippers could be the clowns
9:30
and strippers and Batman they all anyway sorry in this case this is my my niece
9:37
who's a millennial and she's got little kids three little kids and apparently she found out that the Santa who has
9:44
always pays a little visit to their local mall and she brings the kids to and they get to tell them the Christmas
9:50
thing well they retired from the mall okay so she went on social media she
9:56
went on the internet and she found Santa found the guy huh found him because this
10:02
is the only Santa that her children have ever known apparently Santa went out on
10:08
his own and put out his own shingle and you can now hire this guy to come to your house and do your own personalized
10:16
visits I'm gonna hire him to Varnish some paintings go get over here fat
10:22
man so I'm like I'm like so shocked I mean I I've certainly I've known like you know your uncle shows up in the the
10:30
thing party and all the little the real guy that's awesome but then this is the actual one and some of
10:38
the kids are at the age where they might not be believing anymore so this sent
10:43
them back at least a couple years more of believing so they can go to school and tell their friends no he actually
10:50
exists to our house that's awesome that's awesome when I was in my 20s I
10:57
had a one of my very good friends is little boy is turning five and he was way into Batman and he had hired a
11:03
Batman and he was like hey any chance you'd do the Joker and I do the you know
11:10
I'm in my 20s and I'm like I'm good to go you know I'm just like yeah absolutely I'll do the Joker so I did I
11:15
couldn't find a purple suit so I got a a white suit and spray painted it purple
11:21
so it was like really splotchy and gross and I found these green like extra large
11:26
suede green loafers and I just did the makeup and I went all this is '90s folks
11:32
so uh this is you know I I went Jack Nicholson as opposed to uh Heath Ledger got but I I did it upright and you know
11:40
just you know I'm all limbs anyway and I'm in my 20s so I'm I'm probably like a buck 80 and 63 you know so I'm I'm just
11:47
really skinny and and weird looking anyway and and uh I show up at this party I'm the Joker then the Batman
11:54
comes you know kicks my ass and and takes me off and and the Batman comes back blah blah blah okay so I show up
12:00
and you know these are 5ye olds Douglas yeah five you know and they believe in
12:06
the Joker you know they believe in this stuff so they're like well we're having a Batman party of course the goddamn Joker showed up so I'm running around
12:13
terrorizing these they were climing right up their moms in the trees and screaming and crying and you scared them
12:20
oh I scared the [ __ ] well if I know you like I know you you played it up too I'm sure I did I did I got way into to it
12:29
and are you a method actor Will yeah I guess so well no I wouldn't I wouldn't joke her all week I just I showed up and
12:35
boom I'm in it baby but uh no it was it was hilarious and then the Batman shows up he's wearing gray sweatpants he's got
12:41
a mustache I'm like I don't think I want to let this guy take me
12:47
but I yeah I made him chase me around and and he was all huffing him there's a
12:52
great video of it it was like that's a slob Batman oh but U
12:59
it's it's good stuff yeah hey you know I was going to ask you something sure we keep this shared note on our phones that
13:05
uh topics as as they pop up over the the couple weeks and we're going to shows and okay and things like that and
13:11
there's been one at the top of the list that we have not touched on and I've been kind of waiting for you to bring it up I don't know well I deleted it for
13:18
this week is it is it the note about social media by chance yeah I'm I hate social media I don't even want to go go
13:24
ahead and ask you a question about it though I'm interested what yeah you're like well why it's kind of a funny question you're like why is the social
13:31
media of so many good shows so bad cuz social media sucks man honestly it just
13:37
it's a hard nut to crack and honestly I mean we all say well our phones listen to us right our phones are listening to
13:43
us well apparently you know how you get these ads or whatever for things that you might be interested in somehow it
13:50
figures you out well this week I'm being bombarded on my Newsfeed with something
13:56
called snor strips so apparently now Facebook knows I snore
14:03
and all it is these snore strips is a big old piece of duct tape that you put
14:08
over your lips I'm not even kidding it like they're marketing it as a real product
14:13
or something you know I'm laughing it's cuz I use that [ __ ] does it work yeah it works great it's called hostage tape and
14:20
I use this stuff and it's like I hit the pillow and I'm a big old mouth breather just huffing and puffing
14:26
and so I tap my go epilady your face off when you take off your in the morning
14:32
and rip off some some of that fur no it's fine yeah it's fine so it's not full on duct tape I mean you could use
14:39
duct tape that would do it you know but it's strong enough I don't know it's uh it makes me breathe through my nose so
14:45
and then whatever I did not even know that was a thing so that's actually a real thing now here's going back to that
14:52
book about stolen Focus that I mentioned last episode uh they have a whole thing about that social media and it's
14:58
actually scarier than them listening to you it's your ads are so targeted that
15:05
they know you like it's not really that they're listening it's that they you are so I mean they're granted if I'm
15:11
following the stones and I'm following this and I'm following you know they're going to give me ads for the new tour
15:17
etc etc or what have you but I think it's down to like even if you pause like
15:22
if you pause you're scrolling like they're like oh we we got them there you know yeah there you go
15:29
absolutely okay so you are recovering from covid and I doubt it's going to be
15:36
on the level of considering it sweeps week as we like to joke about sweeps
15:42
usually when we talk sweeps one of us is about to go down for a while God yeah it
15:48
appears we've got another sweeps week happening soon I'm not ready I'm not
15:54
rning like it is my long EST strange to Bad Touch Uncle going to show back back up is that no it the sweeps week is me
16:02
it's me again everybody so it's going to be a whole another year of me talking about my foot no I won't talk about it
16:09
but I am going back for round two so man how you feeling I technically feel fine
16:15
and I had been telling anyone who would listen all year about this other foot that I was going to wait until my body
16:21
was completely broken down and I have to Lop off my foot before I had the next surgery but I've changed my mind okay
16:28
feel like I want to be on the other side of it while I'm still young I don't want to have to go through what I went
16:34
through last year all over again at 58 at 62 or whatever age I'd have to deal
16:40
with it again so I feel mentally ready for it so we're going to go in for the
16:47
surgery and what that is is having four screws that are going to go through my
16:53
left ankle this time and reposition all the bones as to how they were originally formed when when I was just a little
16:59
tiny baby God so cut my head off and put it in a jar you're a brave man it's total reconstruction it's not like you
17:06
break something and you put it back to the way it was this is like putting this foot into a whole new alignment you like
17:13
the dock that you saw before well see that's the other thing you know I want to do it while he can fix it because he
17:19
fixed my right foot which is about 80% there I feel like I don't want to trust
17:24
anybody else to do it because I know he knows what he's doing and he's getting close to retiring so that plays into a big part of our
17:31
decision so with this foot and if you don't mind because I'm sure other people have questions and and if that's all
17:37
right if I if I put you on the on the spot here is your you're getting your
17:42
left foot worked on correct yeah would you say that your right foot in its current state is stronger than your
17:50
unfixed foot no it's not stronger okay but what I've been learning through physical therapy and correct anatomy and
17:57
positioning and all that it is set up in the right place and so I know that as I
18:04
progress with the physical therapy and the strengthening and all that that it is going to be I'm imagining it to be
18:10
what it will ultimately be so I'm operating a bit on faith and maybe this is too much for the show but I'm going
18:16
to ask you the next one if I'm walking behind you like I was at dinner I notice you kick your right foot out and you put
18:23
more of your your weight on your left foot are you ready to have the right foot be the lead it's going to have to
18:29
be so okay yeah it's interesting that you say that and and to describe just
18:35
what's going on with these feet that how they were formed is the bones that make
18:41
up our Arch a normal person it's it's a concave thing and right mine are formed
18:48
convex so the bones of my arches are actually like my heel that touches the
18:54
ground that touch so the the arch touches first the arch touches as the
19:00
third point of contact when you like if you step in the AR ball of the foot heel
19:05
never touches the ground my heel is raised above my Arch so it's just
19:11
anatomically awkward and strange and so that's what they're fixing and that's
19:17
why it's like last year I went through this whole period of like oh you know what's what's it going to be like when
19:23
it's done and all that kind of stuff because there there was an element of the unknown it's like well let's try
19:28
this and see and so I have a lot of confidence in what's been done on this
19:33
right side that I feel optimistic going in for the other side well um if you're optimistic we are optimistic and you've
19:40
got our our support there I appreciate that that's a lot to go through and um
19:46
we'll be sending you books you won't read well the universe is supporting me
19:52
okay and one of the signs is after Thanksgiving the other night we watched the biopic niad are you familiar with
19:59
that story no I'm not so uh it's based on the life of Diana niyad and she is
20:05
the uh swimmer who it was her goal to swim from Cuba to the Florida Keys and
20:11
she attempted it like I don't know eight or nine times she thought she had given it up in her 20s when she tried and
20:19
failed but then in her 60s she got something inside of her that said I've
20:25
got to just do this and she was driven and she tried like seven more times in
20:32
her 60s until she finally succeeded and so I watched that and when she's
20:37
training they have this this saying on the wall that she used as her Mantra and it's going to be now my Mantra cuz I
20:43
loved it so much and the Mantra was that a diamond is a lump of coal that merely
20:51
stuck it out and I'm ready to stick it out and I am so ready to get on the
20:56
other side of this whole deal you're Diamond baby you got this I'm a diamond yep all right all right well good luck
21:02
sir and uh we'll be hearing more about this as it progresses I'm sorry that
21:07
this is uh this is happening but like you said we're going to follow your optimistic lead on it and and uh know
21:13
that the best is on the way yeah so um hey that brings us to you I think we've had a pretty good uh leadin talk um a
21:21
couple of my favorite people to see on the circuit you have on the show this week it's the the lovely pierces yes
21:27
James and Carrie Pierce individual artists work on their own bodies of work very different bodies of work but in
21:33
this conversation we learn a lot about how they do things similarly and differently and it was really
21:40
interesting to speak with artist couples who kind of go off to work come back at the end of the day and kind of hear
21:47
their process and hear what's important to them so it's a it's a similar process that my wife and I have so it's
21:53
different bodies of work different mediums and and they can appreciate how they're how'd your day go honey had your day go it was a different day I had a
22:00
different day than you did how was your day yeah and for anybody out there who has ever battled with a block a creative
22:08
block Carrie tells her whole story of how she approached that and how she got through it so it's a really great talk
22:14
in that regards too yeah and uh here's my tip just put your goddamn phone down and don't reach for that when you're bored how about that there's there's a
22:21
papa papa Armstrong getting a little more white in his beard and his ponytails growing in all right folks
22:27
let's get to the say shall we that's right here they are this episode of The Independent artist podcast is brought to
22:33
you by zap the digital application service where artists and art festivals connect so I've started using the events
22:39
list feature in zap to search up some different shows to fill those holes in
22:44
my schedule you know I feel like I should have something to say but I wasn't really listening to you cuz I'm looking at the events list right now
22:51
it's pretty cool okay okay so you drop the menu down and there at the bottom go scrolling all the way about third down
22:58
in the smaller print it just says events list that's right all of the shows appear here regardless of their
23:03
application deadline you can use the filtering and the Sorting to narrow down your search so that you can find that
23:10
right show that fills your desired time frame or location I know a lot of people love that calendar I like seeing the
23:16
list of events I like scrolling through and doom scrolling late at night it's like online dating they don't let you
23:23
swipe left or right but you can figure out who you want to date in the coming up year all right I'm here with James
23:29
and Carrie Pierce from Peoria Illinois hey guys how's it going hello good to be
23:35
here howy H so you guys are back from Philadelphia tell me about that show how was it it was good it's it's one of my
23:41
favorites I love doing the show it's the Philadelphia Museum of Art puts on the show and the women's committee the
23:47
location everything is just always fantastic and they they get a really good buyer crowd through there the the
23:53
buyers tend to be pretty educated so it's it's a lot of fun talking to the buyers and the and the collectors who
23:58
come through the show they did a lot of social media posts and it looked quite well healed I must say from all of the
24:06
promotions and the videos of the collectors walking through uh yeah they uh they've been working on their on
24:11
their social media stuff more and more and they yeah they do they do really well I mean they really try and promote
24:16
the show and the artists and and everything and I think they do a really good job of it we have yet to get into
24:22
that show I've been trying for 20 some years weight listed but never never cracked that one really that's a tough
24:28
one for right and I was thinking about it I'm like I wonder if sigar have ever done this show but that that explains
24:35
that you know what I think about that one is I just feel like uh some of the
24:40
Glass artists that are there aren't outdoor artists don't do the circuit and
24:46
I just think the competition is just that much tougher in the glass category for for that particular show is it in
24:53
the convention center it is yeah right across from Reading Market which which is really nice so I used to do the buyer
25:00
Market of American craft there I do love that neighborhood that whole scene is
25:06
awesome uh yeah you go to Philly and you just carve out and the you know with all the the pastries and bread and
25:12
everything else at reading market then you you do the show and yeah it's just fantastic and is it craft or is it is it
25:19
all fine art it's all craft uh yeah so so Carrie was able to do it this year it
25:25
was her first year in with her mix media which was really kind of awesome that we both got to do the show together so it
25:30
was kind of fun so we got to set up across from each other and do the show normally she goes and hangs out she's
25:36
the plus one as will would say yeah exactly she she was up till this year that's it yeah yeah how was it how was
25:44
it for you yeah so my first time showing it was super fun um I had good sales
25:50
yeah I I wasn't disappointed it was good cool cool cool well I think the first
25:56
question I want to ask the two of you since I got you both here everybody always wants to know artist couples how
26:02
did you meet who's going to tell the story I'll tell it we we met in Savannah Georgia okay in 98 August 14th 1998 to
26:11
be exact oh okay I had a I had gotten out of the military in Hinesville and was teaching diesel traveling quite a
26:18
bit ended up moving to Savannah down in City Market Carri Studio was across the street and she was helping helping our
26:25
friends at the coffee shop clean up so I just gone in for coffee and uh met Carrie and we've been together pretty
26:31
much every day since then wow love it first sight right yeah pretty much yeah
26:36
I don't I don't know it's just yeah we we just clicked and it and it worked so Caren you had your studio there so I
26:43
know you your medium is different now you're doing mixed media but what were you doing back then when you guys met I
26:50
was doing pretty little watercolors of flowers and fountains and statues and
26:57
Gardens of Savannah and selling them to tourists pretty much okay well that's
27:03
quite a a far cry different than what you're doing now I know right an evolution yeah and James was Art on your
27:11
radar at that point because you said you were just out of the military yeah actually was you know in Savannah a lot
27:17
of the a lot of the people walking through City Market that sort of thing they're doing it at night you know so they go to dinner have a couple drinks
27:24
and walk through artist Studios and stuff Carri was always open during you know dinner hours that sort of thing so
27:30
to hang out I would hang out with her in her studio and I I actually painted
27:35
quite a bit too we'd go down to Dick Blick and or whatever the the uh art store was I don't remember what it was
27:40
and I'd buy canvas and paints and I'd sit there and paint too okay City Market is kind of A Gathering Spot for for
27:47
locals you always went down in the coffee shop and hung out William Quan mapo was there every day yeah we shared
27:54
together me and William shared Studios together really yeah and that was how long ago 25 years ago oh my gosh that's
28:02
crazy world isn't it yeah well you're in puia now but was that where you were are
28:08
you from Georgia Carrie no I'm from Poria you're from piia so what took you down there school okay moved there when
28:15
I was 18 understand and went to school I stayed there for 12 years oh great so
28:21
then we moved back here in 99 okay and is Poria was Poria home for you too James or did become your home uh
28:28
it's become my home I'm originally from Southern Arizona a little town called SE Vista but growing up I travel all over
28:36
I've lived in England Germany I've lived in Korea twice all over the US kind of everywhere so and why did you move so
28:42
much military uh part of it and then uh my father was Civil Service worked for
28:47
worked for the government so we lived in England and in Germany during High School I I live both those places
28:55
graduated from heidleberg high school and then joined the military after that I wasn't the college type didn't know
29:01
what I wanted to do with my life that sort of thing so okay yeah but were you a creative type I mean all of this talk
29:08
of like military and machinery and teaching it it doesn't seem like the obvious path for an artist but is that
29:17
is that something that you've always kind of had even in your childhood oh yeah no I I always grew up around you
29:23
know it was always around art you know always taking art classes whether it's wood shop or regular art classes in
29:30
school growing up we we had a shop in the house oh I don't know if you know what toll painting is no what is it so
29:37
toll painting is one of these things that happened in the 70s and you would take a a plaque a wood plaque and they
29:44
had carving knives and you would carve out like you know sayings like welcome to my kitchen and you know carve carve
29:50
out a chicken and whatever ounce and some vegetables and I is this bringing an image you kind of remember it sounds
29:56
a little kitchy no to to totally kid it's flat you're just carving the
30:02
outline but you go in and paint the chicken and the vegetables and the welcome and you know whatever else but
30:08
anyway I you know so I I grew up around woodworking my great-grandfather was a a Furniture maker my grandfather was the
30:15
woodworker this is all on my mother's side and then my mother kind of brought my dad in that whole thing when my
30:21
great-grandfather died we actually you know got part of his shop and oh wow you know so my first job in second grade was
30:28
cutting out you know the wooden desk plates names you put on your desk sure
30:34
so I had my own lettering and and all that stuff and I would take orders you know 50 cents a letter and i' I go home
30:40
at night and i' these letters and yeah you know people named Joe Jo or you know
30:47
cost him a dollar but it felt like it took forever I mean you know Anthony was a far better uh far better client
30:54
okay but you know I I grew up I grew up around woodworking that's why we eliminate the low end from our booth
31:01
right that's it yeah that's it so did you work with your grandpa in his shop I
31:08
remember my great-grandfather and it it wasn't it wasn't working I I mean it was pretty young yeah you know but and I
31:15
remember him but never worked with him my my father uh I worked with him and my
31:20
dad I can remember being in the shop at the same time we were one of those families when you moved into the house you bought the house without the kitchen
31:26
and we' met the kitchen cabinets and the bathroom vanities if there was anything to be made we would make it so okay you
31:34
know it was kind of interesting the first table saw I ever worked on was a tilt table table saw oh not a tilt Arbor
31:41
so you would actually tilt the whole table if you wanted to do a 45 oh you put a shim under two of the legs which
31:48
is which is scary you all right wow okay so you've been a Craftsman your whole
31:56
your whole life and then you've taken your woodworking to a whole new level with pushing it to Fine Art uh yeah uh
32:03
you know what happened I got out of the military and we bounced around a little bit we moved back to Peoria I worked at
32:09
a a Cat dealer for for a little bit just I I just hated the diesel uh you know
32:14
love the mechanical hated the diesel and ended up going in you know back into Woodworking and I I started out doing
32:21
kitchen cabinets and bathroom vanities and all that all that stuff you know and and just got to a point where I hated it
32:28
kind of like Carrie with what she was doing but I got to a point where I absolutely hated the the idea of having
32:34
to do any of that people order a kitchen cabinet and call me the next day and go Hey where's it at we're moving in and I
32:41
go well you ordered it yesterday you know the stress the stress of the whole thing was just it was too much but you
32:48
know I love the mechanical even though it's untraditional for the medium that whole type of work made sense to me so
32:56
you know com Bing the two just it started out simple and just it's evolved over the over the past 20 years I think
33:03
I've been making wooden screws and gears and that sort of thing for about 20 years now well for those people who
33:09
aren't familiar with with your work it is it's kind of like trlo in the sense that it you know you walk up to your
33:15
pieces and it looks like a your furniture looks like a piece of Machinery in fact for years I thought
33:21
you were a found metal object artist that put pieces together to make your
33:27
Furniture until you showed me you know the cranks and each little nut and bolt
33:33
made out of wood and it it's fantastic the amount of detail in your work it's
33:38
just how did you settle on that as being your body of work we all have two sides of our brain but that that side of my
33:44
brain is very linear very very structured everything's got to be in its place it's it's got to mesh right it's
33:51
got to work right uh you know so whether I was working on diesel in the military
33:57
teaching it or or working on it after I got out I you know got done with teaching it you know that that
34:03
mechanical side always just really fascinated me so you made what you knew right you made what you had an affinity
34:09
for yeah and and I I had wood tools I had you know the things to continue in
34:15
Wood whereas you know if I was doing found objects that sort of thing I would had to have like a metal working shop
34:22
and I you know all sorts of just crazy stuff so I kind of maybe little out of
34:27
necessity I'm not opposed to steel or metal or you know that sort of thing because it was what I knew and what I
34:33
had you know started developing my own tools to make screws and these different things to make make the whole thing work
34:40
you know what I found was you know the mechanical aspect of it the mechanisms that sort of thing satisfy one side of
34:45
my brain and then I get to wrap it in something aesthetically pleasing and
34:51
that satisfies the other side of my brain yeah both sides of my brain are are satisfied I guess and and they argue
34:58
a lot I mean oh they do oh yeah yeah you have like an angel and the devil on your shoulder having a conversation a little
35:05
bit I you know I really want to loosen up and you know every artist is different but you know I go I want to loosen up I want to do things that are
35:10
more sculpture and that's start of my brain goes no you can't do that it's it's got to it's got to look like this
35:16
and it's got to function it's got to have a function um so I'm constantly fighting that that idea that uh you know
35:22
my furniture has to be super functional I mean why can't it be a little bit more
35:28
sculptural I've seen you know pictures of chairs and you wouldn't want to sit on them right so I'm I'm constantly
35:34
fighting that idea that it's got to be functional and it's got to be this yeah
35:40
aesthetically if I could win that argument things would be a little bit different for a long time the mechanisms
35:46
are what kept me going and then once the mechanisms became more predictable the details are you know kind of took over
35:53
and those details I think are what really kind of make my work What It Is Well now Carrie when I think about
36:00
details I think about your work because your work has so much detail with
36:07
different elements creating your mixed media pieces but that's fairly new for you can you talk a bit about that
36:13
transition of moving from your old body of work to your current body of work well that's a good question so during
36:20
covid I went back to school and I thought well I'm going to go back to
36:27
school and get my MFA and then I'm going to teach because Co it was like
36:33
anybody's guess of what was going to happen next and it really freaked me out that you know we we rely on the shows we
36:40
rely on galleries we you know to make our income so during the process of
36:46
going back to school that I started revisiting ideas I had from like 30
36:52
years ago so I was kind of doing these things with the mixed media I knocked
36:57
off an Arthur rackam illustration and then I sewed things to it and I gave it to my brother for Christmas so I was
37:03
doing these things for fun but not seriously as you know like serious art
37:09
and I'd done a few things in school like that so I I lost my sense of humor when
37:15
covid hit I okay and humor plays a huge role in my work it just felt like well
37:21
this this is just ridiculous the like the whole idea of art right now just M
37:27
it seemed pretty bleak during like what's anyone going to do with with an a painting yeah who cares it's like the
37:33
sky falling the world's ending yeah for sure so when I went back to school one
37:39
of my classes required me to listen to something and I chose a Joseph Campbell
37:45
I think it's the hero's way or something along those lines okay and my takeaway
37:52
from that was follow your bliss you know if you're listening out there and you don't know who Joseph Campbell is well
37:58
he inspired George Lucas to do Star Wars so he's a really he played a huge
38:05
role in Star Wars in the creation of that so I followed my Bliss and I was
38:11
like At first I'm like Bliss what is bliss and who has Bliss is thing I never
38:18
even thought sounds like a it totally sounds like a new Agy kind of thing with follow your bliss you know yeah like
38:25
okay okay what is my so I just started making lists of things I love to do and
38:30
things I dislike doing and so for me Bliss would be just doing things you
38:35
love and eliminate you know the bad things and then you're in Bliss and so I
38:42
literally wrote down things like jigsaw puzzles I love to do those I love to
38:48
sort things I like to do embroidery wood carving paper mâché you name it you know
38:54
all those things that I love doing and I love painting the portrait so that still St stayed on that side of the list and
39:00
what I dislike doing is clothing and backgrounds in paintings I like to do
39:05
all the detail but I don't like I just don't like you'd make the you'd make the faces in your paintings but then you
39:11
would feel like to finish the painting it was a chore that you just didn't want to do yeah yeah it was like pulling
39:17
teeth so you were you experiencing a block yeah very much so it it was okay I
39:22
had no desire to paint it was like pulling teeth I hated everything I was doing I hated doing it and therefore you
39:31
don't like the results so yeah when you follow your bliss guess what you enjoy
39:37
doing it and then people enjoy it it's just it's How the Universe works I think
39:44
well was going to school like to try and get yourself out of that block or like to creatively recharge your batteries or
39:52
was that felt like I couldn't paint anymore and that I was going to have to teach because because I like really
39:58
didn't want to paint anymore it just was you were broken your creativity was broken yeah it was it was bad it was
40:05
hard and you know I went into school thinking that it was going to be easy
40:11
and it was not it was so hard the writing all the and I did it online so
40:17
that's twice as hard because you have to answer all the discussion groups I think I was spending 60 hours a week doing
40:25
school and that was only two classes wow It it's a lot that's a lot
40:31
yeah that is a lot and there was really no time for me to do any art so having that
40:37
break I think was good for me I think I needed that and so then when I did get back into painting and and and doing art
40:45
I was ready and and it was suddenly fun again now that I found new materials new
40:51
toys to play with so that sounds pretty that sounds pretty tough to to be going
40:56
through that uh James what was that period like for you were you going through a similar thing that she was or
41:03
or were you just kind of like the support um I to an extent you know one
41:09
of the one of my favorite things to do or our shows like a lot of artists I
41:14
work on my own yeah so I don't I don't have an audience or interaction a whole
41:20
lot until I get back from the shop so what I found was without an audience I
41:26
had a hard time creating anything you know those those ideas just just weren't there for me one idea leads to another
41:33
you know it's constantly going that sort of thing and are your pieces one-offs or
41:39
do they evolve each time or they do you do kind of a similar take on a on a
41:44
piece so I have a body of work that you know you can order and I typically have
41:50
you know one or two of them at shows my popular pieces so about 70% of it's
41:55
oneof offs typically and then about 30% is you know pieces that are part of a
42:03
series or a production of of pieces so it kind of depends on what it is yeah
42:09
but there's a combination of both of them I like the one-offs I think those are a lot more fun you obviously spend
42:14
more time on them you reinvent the wheel every time you do something yeah some people have a hard time with that like I
42:19
have to come up with another piece and other people love that challenge they love that the play aspect of it like
42:25
let's see what what I can create here absolutely yeah so you know kind of going back to the co I was kind of
42:31
fortunate I had a sugar daddy that you know had me build a ton of furniture for
42:36
his house he just bought a house didn't have any furniture and while it wasn't all you know along the lines what I
42:42
typically do yeah at that point I took what I could get so you know that it's either that or or an online job right I
42:49
mean that was like that was more palatable absolutely I you know so he
42:54
kept me busy for a good 12 16 months that's amazing building furniture and
43:00
stuff locally so I you know that was that was a godsend uh really because our
43:06
existence has kind of gone to gallery and and shows I mean that's that's how we make our living 100% so that was
43:15
super super nice right but yeah I you know during Co we talked a lot about
43:20
process about pieces about her going through school and coming up with different ideas and you know exploring
43:26
this that the other thing which is nice both of us being artists we understand there's an understanding between us
43:32
about you know hey I got to go to work or I got to explore this idea you know the other one gets it and also that idea
43:39
of feeling like you're not finding Joy from what you're doing let's say a regular 9 to-5 kind of job they're like
43:46
yeah well nobody gets uh joy out of their job so just suck it up and go to work right I mean at least as artists we
43:52
understand how enjoying what we do is an important part of the process to be creative I know quite a few artists
43:59
where their spouse isn't an artist you know talking to some of them it's it can be rough sometimes with trying to get
44:05
them to understand no I I don't want to do this on Saturday I need to do this you know so I definitely feel for for
44:11
artists that don't have that type of relationship that understanding between both of them yeah I feel super fortunate
44:17
that Carrie and I both share the same understanding yeah so well Carrie as as you started to you know discover things
44:24
that brought you Joy that brought you your bliss and stuff you know you started experimenting with incorporating
44:30
found objects into your work can you can you talk about that process and and what
44:36
finding these These Little Gems and how that impacted the direction of your work
44:41
my paintings always sort of had these things in them I was just painting them it weren't oh I see so I would collect
44:48
these things and use them you know as reference material for my paintings and then I thought well why not just put
44:55
them in in there sure so I love every part of the process I love going on the hunt you know hunting and Gathering
45:02
going to the antique stores in the flea markets and looking for things yeah I love to get a thing of jewelry and chop
45:09
it up into little pieces and sort it all out by color it's all part of the
45:15
process and like finding these things it's part of culture and it's it's part
45:20
of our beings as you know we've grown up with it it triggers memories like
45:26
symbols you're saying like these these objects that you're finding have special meaning for you but then for Universal
45:34
yeah and I also feel like they need to be saved in many ways so I just finished
45:40
a piece with a coyote face it literally I've had this coyote face and it said on
45:47
the tag coyote face $10 and I was like well someone needs to do something with
45:52
this it sounds disgusting it's actually a coyote it's a coyote face um but I feel like
46:00
they you know well that coyote didn't die for no reason so let me put it in a piece of Fine Art um okay you know and I
46:07
feel like these these objects are like they kind of yell at me I don't know what I'm looking for you can't just go
46:13
and find what you want to find you have to go with an open mind and just see
46:18
what jumps out at you and so when I always feel like these things need saving like saving them from the they
46:26
hold energy too I mean not everybody believes in that that kind of um esoteric thinking but even if you come
46:33
down to the core part of symbols if you pick something for your pieces that speak to you that have meaning to you
46:41
our collectors also will find meaning I mean they'll assign their own meaning but it's going to be meaning all the
46:47
same so what types of things started to resonate with you I really like
46:53
Victorian items I like antique things that were well made or more interesting
46:58
than like to me the dolls the old dolls are so much better than the new dolls what about them do you like I don't know
47:05
maybe if they're made out of porcelain that they're like more handmade than like yeah mass produced okay um so I
47:13
don't know I guess I feel like these things need saving and and they just can trigger memories or they trigger my
47:21
creativity too so it it serves multiple roles then yeah I I get ideas from them
47:28
that I wouldn't have had unless I had the object well I do have to say that
47:33
there's a creepy element to dolls don't you think especially those old those old porcelain
47:39
dolls or or me personally everyone has a different take on it but do you ever feel that or do you do you see something
47:46
else from them that you are inspired by or get excited about I mean there are
47:52
some that are creepy and then they're just because they are mhm yeah but dolls
47:57
are in every culture so I think they're really interesting it's just a human
48:03
instinct to to have these things it's not like we've learned this from other cultures necessarily it's kind of
48:09
universal yeah it's Universal yeah so I think there's something to that and I
48:15
like the idea that they're little companions like in a lot of uh folklore
48:21
and stories the doll is a lot of times maybe it represents a mother with advice
48:28
I don't know they're just super interesting well it's part of child rearing children go through that stage
48:34
having dolls and so if they're lonely if they're sad if they're whatever they they grw up with their doll you know
48:40
yeah well in jewelry is another one that I think is fascinating because that also
48:45
spans all cultures so dolls and jewelry are like a lot of what my and toys what a lot of my
48:54
work has in it so so cool and the occasional coyote face that was the that was the
49:01
unexpected surprise mink Fox coyote face yeah I'll
49:08
use any of it yeah okay it all good yeah awesome well James with like what you do
49:14
I'm sure that there's plenty of people out there with that similar kind of a Vibe your imagery in your work has that
49:21
machine quality and so I'm sure that it's Sparks in some people uh something
49:28
that like it could be dad or it could be their grandpa or something like that you know what I mean does does that ever
49:33
happen with you yeah I've had people were you know their dad uh or grandfather was a pattern maker and for
49:40
those of you don't know what a pattern maker is that's that's basically how how uh they would make these pieces and they
49:48
would actually make the molds off these pieces they were super intricate super detailed so like a casting for you know
49:55
part of an engine would be made by a pattern maker you know before 3D printing and Cad and all that stuff you
50:02
know they would actually hang carve and make every every Last Detail every you
50:07
know every flowing line everything to to cast that part you know specifically it reminds me of the talk that will had our
50:14
first season with Michael schwegman and how he makes ceramic sculptures and he
50:20
would have people come in his booth and see the tools he's creating out of clay
50:26
and be like it it brought back memories of their dad or something you know and I I think that's really cool to create
50:31
imagery like that you're you're making what connects to you and it's fun to see
50:37
how it connects with other people I guess is is where we're going with this uh yeah no absolutely they don't always
50:43
tell me why they're attracted to to Pieces necessarily but a lot of times I'll have to deliver and once you see
50:49
the house you go ah it makesense all makes sense they're definitely attracted to certain feel um and then I'll get
50:58
then I'll get other collectors that they're just totally random uh and I I
51:03
delivered several pieces to a a new collector on the way back from Philly
51:09
and uh the the connection was wood she liked she liked the wood and she liked
51:15
that it was made out of wood you know I don't know it's just it can be interesting but it was just so different
51:21
maybe than anything else that she had collected so it was like a surprise to her you know that like when you don't
51:27
have that one thing in your collection you know that's so unique and you're like I got to have it I'm a I'm a wood
51:33
collector and what you do is so different I've never I mean James I've never seen anybody do what you do I mean
51:41
full stop yeah you know and she had some fantastic wood pieces so you know it's
51:46
really kind of cool to you know to be added to a collection like that well kind of speaking of like how you said
51:51
you go into people's homes and it makes sense to you where you're work is going to live I think that same way about your
51:58
booth I mean you have created your panels in your booth that look like your
52:06
furniture belongs in that space you know what I'm saying yeah you know I I'm
52:12
constantly and I reworked it again before Philly did you I think the booth is hugely important especially when
52:19
you're selling you know six seven eight $10,000 pieces out of your booth pipe and drape just does work for me right so
52:26
I I want I want a feeling when somebody walks into the booth or sees my work that maybe trigger an idea of maybe
52:33
where this will go or just give them a you know a feeling that they're comfortable being where they're at and
52:40
seeing what they're looking it's kind of like what you said earlier about how things have to make sense to you and that is an element of of having your
52:47
work make sense it fits in an environment your walls are they almost
52:53
look like they're metal walls with rivets but they're wood you know what I
52:58
mean so it is again that that kind of that play on not what you expect it to be how did you come up with that idea it
53:06
was it was just trying to make it cohesive sure you know I didn't want flat walls because flat walls don't make
53:12
sense and it has changed a little bit I've reworked the booth where I don't have the the roof it's got to be just a
53:17
total pain in the ass where uh you know they would just fall out and you know I'd leave a show and there'd be 20 or 30
53:23
rivets on the ground um you know I had to clean them off it's your gift to Fort Worth right
53:30
something so I had to rework it a little bit but like I said I I wanted it to make sense I wanted to give give that
53:37
that sense of you know belonging with with the rest of it and I I do you know I get a lot of people in that and this
53:44
is wood too and they'll you know they'll tap on the walls I'm like did you make those yeah I made those my little cart
53:50
got I've got a little cart I hide all my junk in and it's uh it's all riveted up and I you know I've had people try and
53:56
buy my cart which I think is interesting kind like a checkout counter or something is that what you're talking about my cart yeah yeah a little bit you
54:04
know it's where I hide all my business cards and you know all my tools and all that stuff and and because of what it is
54:10
and the size sometimes it ends up being a pedestal within the booth as well you know so put a stool on top of it or or
54:15
whatever else but yeah it's just it's just yeah kind of funny no I I I take a
54:21
lot of pride in my booth I you know I hope everybody that sees to work and sees work in the booth that goes oh that
54:27
that looks really good I love it well okay so you had said earlier that you're
54:33
really grateful for the fact that you have a partner who understands you because you both have the same you come
54:40
from the same place being artists right so how do you guys you know I'd like to
54:45
hear from both of you on this how do you navigate this career this you know
54:51
planning on shows creating work what are the ins and outs of kind of navigating that being two artists we don't we don't
54:59
have a plan no no you're winging it we're willy-nilly
55:05
my theory is as long as we can pay the bills and buy beer I'm happy you know we
55:10
kind of divide things up obviously our work is important you know we got to have the our booths full and you know
55:16
have the body work and we kind of work on that individually but the you know we'll we'll sit down together and talk about shows and and which ones we want
55:23
to do and where we want to go and you know apply to those that sort of thing and then the other part of it is
55:30
actually loading and getting ready for the show I'm responsible for all the the tents and the booths and the weights and
55:36
all that stuff okay so if you ever see me at a show and I'm missing a part it's my fault Carri had nothing to do nothing
55:44
to do with that you're responsible for all that stuff uh yeah and Carrie takes
55:49
care of the house side of things makes sure all my you know all the clothes are ready to go and uh the house is clean
55:55
for the house sitter and then she's great about I I don't eat it shows um I
56:00
I just I I just don't do it unless Carrie's there Carrie makes sure I eat
56:06
and I stay hydrated so without her being there and going through all that stuff I I could be I could be a mess you know
56:12
there's no Talon so it kind of it kind of depends on you know what part of it but you know we're always we're always
56:19
talking about it I'm I'm I'm sure the two of you always talk about you know what shows are we going to do where are we going to go yes but it's a little
56:26
different in the sense that if we don't get in we don't get in as a partnership you know the two of you how do you
56:32
navigate like creating a schedule like do you find that things are pretty much
56:38
you you get into the things you want together or do you have to make decisions sometimes if you're just going
56:43
to go as a as a single exhibitor or you won't do it if you both don't get in how do how do you work that I'll go where
56:50
James goes I'm not going to go unless James is going that's me like I don't
56:55
drive I'm not I'll just go if I get in where James gets in then I'm there I see
57:01
but I'm not gonna go off on your own to do your own show somewhere no James
57:06
tells me when I have to apply so do you guys each handle your
57:12
own kind of business side on your own like you decide I mean and you talk about it but do you like keep track of
57:18
your own applications and all that kind of stuff yeah we keep track of our own stuff as far as all that goes pay our
57:24
base fees and whatnot we just have each other to remind ourselves that we need to do it right yeah I mean there's
57:31
there's some artists I know out there who they might like lean on one or the other to be like the business side for
57:37
both of their businesses or whatever but you guys operate it sounds like pretty independently on everything related to
57:45
to what you do for your for your art business yeah for the most part so you both have your Studios at home or do you
57:51
have to travel to your studio I'm at home James is at a shop we found that oil paintings and sawas don't mix real
57:57
well oh I would I could see that yeah right and I would assume too the sound
58:03
right would there be an an issue for your process Carrie if you heard sawing all day long absolutely yeah can't stand
58:10
it yeah it's loud the planer the planer and the sander no uhuh so you guys get
58:17
up you go to work you go do your thing and and then you're like I'll see you tonight for dinner is that is that kind
58:23
of what four o' we meet back up he comes home we're very scheduled it's funny I
58:30
mean we have like the animals eat at 4: we have our Martini at 5 we make dinner
58:36
at 6 we go to bed at 8:30 8:30 you sound like glass
58:42
floors yeah we're we're super regimented cool day in and day out the only thing
58:47
that messes up is messes this up as shows staying up late show interrup yeah
58:53
but I you know that's fun you know I enjoy that part too yeah the shows that stay open till 10: at night kill me oh
59:01
my God yeah like really like my bedtime watch reminder goes off
59:08
halfway through a show like are you sure are you sure you want to still be awake yeah I guess I'm still awake but it's
59:14
true we kind of get into our mentality of like okay this is what life is like when we're at a show and then like this
59:20
is what life is like when we're at home making the work you know a whole different routine it's yeah it's like
59:28
two different jobs for sure that's what I was going to say yeah and I like both jobs right it's like if you do one for
59:35
too long you're like I really missed the other I need to get back out on the road and do the shows for so many reasons
59:42
yeah yeah and it goes the other way too after Philly I was like I can't wait to
59:48
get back and make something because just a you know almost two weeks of not making because you're preparing and you
59:55
know just getting everything together and whatnot and then you're gone for a week for the show it's like that's too
1:00:01
long for me to go without making stuff and you just feel like a salesperson or something you know like or all those
1:00:08
ideas that come up I mean do you guys get ideas from when collectors get
1:00:13
excited about what they're seeing sometimes I don't I don't get many ideas while I'm on the road I think
1:00:22
because my brain is shift I I only get ideas is when I'm working you know
1:00:27
painting or or actually working on you know whatever part of the process I
1:00:33
can't sit and think something through I can't go I'm gonna sit down and think of a great idea like that doesn't happen
1:00:40
it's it it comes through the immersive process of of working on your pieces like that yeah that that the floodgates
1:00:48
open yep and now your process go ahead James I was going to say it's the same for me as well if I'm not working on if
1:00:55
I'm not working on pieces that the creative process kind of stops so you
1:01:00
know for me as well as Carri it happens while we're while we're working I may have some ideas but until I'm actually
1:01:08
in the process of creating the piece it's it's not it's not fully realized so I would think that your process James is
1:01:17
there's not really a sense of like fluidity or change through the process like you can create something but you
1:01:23
kind of have to follow the course that you started out on maybe the next piece you could evolve into something
1:01:29
different where Carri is your process a little more fluid where you can evolve
1:01:34
through it yeah yeah talk on your guys's process that way most of my work is
1:01:39
additive you know it's not I mean there are some subtractive parts to it you know but I'm starting out with flat
1:01:45
boards but once I make a decision on whether you know it's a size or a shape
1:01:51
or whether I'm turning it or you know whatever I'm doing to it once I make that decision I follow through with that
1:01:57
I'm I'm kind of stuck if I don't like it I either evolve with it and turn it into something I do like or it goes into a
1:02:06
pile and maybe later I'll revisit it because I've had a different idea or to
1:02:11
get turned into something different I have to have a pretty good idea of like size and you know what the mechanisms
1:02:19
going to do that sort of thing yeah and and I don't know if the mechanisms are necessarily going to work until I'm I'm
1:02:24
done you know I'm finished with the piece so I have to have a pretty good idea as to what I'm what I'm doing with
1:02:31
some of that so if those ideas kind of fall apart while I'm working on a piece I just have to I have to put that to the
1:02:37
side whether it's in parts or whatever else and and move on to something else
1:02:42
it's not real easy to to change anything after I get to a certain point so tell me something you said there you said you
1:02:49
start with flat panels so are you manipulating flat wood in into
1:02:54
threedimensional shapes to get your forms yeah exactly uh you could buy you could buy everything to make any of my
1:03:00
pieces at the lumber yard I mean anybody could go to the lumber yard and buy my entire table you just got to figure out
1:03:06
how to put it together um so so I go and I buy typically in Wood speak four quter
1:03:12
eight quter wood which is one inch or two inch thick wood whether it's Ash Walnut you know whatever I'm working
1:03:18
with and take each one of those boards and cut it turn it shape it carve
1:03:25
it you know whatever to create each one of the pieces it's almost like you're fabricating or creating components that
1:03:33
are being built and and assembled so if you don't end up using a like let's say something isn't isn't going the way you
1:03:40
want it but you've created let's say a part of a machine that could maybe be
1:03:45
utilized in a in a future design yeah absolutely yeah okay yeah yeah sometimes
1:03:52
there's you know things just don't you go well that was too small or that's too big for this piece the scales off or you
1:03:58
know but you you spent all the time creating it doesn't mean I can't use it somewhere else maybe another piece will
1:04:04
come along and I go well that would be perfect for that so I've got a little bit of a Boneyard where where I can go
1:04:10
back in and I well maybe I'll use this fitting here on this piece over here
1:04:15
I'll you know so while the pieces don't always work out within the piece I'm
1:04:21
working on it doesn't it doesn't necessarily mean that they're they're junk or I can't use them later on I can
1:04:27
always you know kind of kind of look at a different piece and and go all right well this could work for that but I have
1:04:33
to have a pretty good idea of what I'm doing you know where I'm going the whole random yeah and then what about your
1:04:40
process Carrie I mean is there is there a sense of evolution that that can happen through each of your pieces a
1:04:46
stream of Consciousness kind of thing yeah yeah I always pretty much start
1:04:51
with portrait sometimes I'm in inspired by an object or you know like coyote
1:04:57
face and I kind of knew the direction but I didn't know how it was going to lay out yeah I start with a portrait and
1:05:04
then by the time I get done with that it seems that the ideas start flowing while
1:05:09
I'm painting so then I get either like an idea of what it's going to become
1:05:15
like thematically or you know what's the the point of the whole piece so then
1:05:21
from there I I go to the material and I I have to make some decisions
1:05:28
pretty early about if it's going to be sewn if it's going to have you know like embroidery section or what color I need
1:05:36
to figure out pretty quickly because that is really hard to change I have torn things apart though I've started
1:05:43
them and said yeah that's not working um there's a lot of elements that play
1:05:48
which is you know different from paint you know paint you have composition you have your color
1:05:54
your values so all those things are playing a role but now you have shiny or
1:06:00
matte or yeah you know reflective surfaces transparent surfaces um so
1:06:06
there's just a lot more to take into consideration and I'm learning a lot as
1:06:12
I go okay you know even like incorporating paper into you know flat
1:06:18
surfaces versus raised surfaces so there's just a lot to think about and it
1:06:23
does doesn't happen all at once I mean ideas don't come all at once it comes in little tiny sections if I'm having a
1:06:30
hard time and I feel like you know I don't know where I'm going to go what I
1:06:36
always do is I do what I know for sure like I know for sure it's this portrait
1:06:42
I know for sure I'm going to put this in it and then those materials will talk to
1:06:48
each other or me and then I can figure out the rest because I can't have it all figured out out from the get go okay so
1:06:56
you need to build Discovery into the process yeah yeah it needs to evolve how
1:07:03
about is that anything for you James do you kind of have to go in with a kind of a set plan and stick to that or is there
1:07:10
Evolution that can happen in your pieces uh there can be a little bit of evolution you know sometimes you get
1:07:17
I'll get done building a piece and go well it's it's missing something here or
1:07:24
needs this over here I'll get to that point where my ideas have stopped finish
1:07:29
the piece and go all right I got to go back into it and rework it a little bit and those are mostly like little detail
1:07:35
stuff you know just like adding a gauge or you know an electrical cord in a plug or uh you know something like that that
1:07:42
that kind of finishes the piece off that the fine details as opposed to like the main kind of composition of it right
1:07:50
yeah the main comp like we you know we were talking about that the main composition is kind kind of stuck once I start it's it's stuck that way so if I
1:07:58
don't like it I I I just got to start over but it does evolve I mean there are
1:08:03
my pieces can evolve you know where I'm adding little details here and there that sort of thing absolutely so tell me
1:08:10
when you guys look to the other as as a as a another artist what do you value in
1:08:17
your partner that you wish that you maybe were stronger at like what do you like Carrie what do you admire and James
1:08:24
that you wish that you could be more like that and vice versa is there anything um well his ability to do
1:08:33
math okay now James is great at he's very
1:08:41
headstrong and he's very much I'm a little bit more willy-nilly I'm like well change change change change this I
1:08:48
don't like that um I'll repaint a portrait three times whereas he he's because of his materials he is more
1:08:55
direct Okay and like to the point with his work very yeah once he gets an idea
1:09:00
it's like he he plans it out he's more planned he's very much planned out okay
1:09:07
but you like that he's he has he kind of has that black it's not black and white that's not the right word but it's more
1:09:13
definitive it's more like here's where I'm going with it and so even though
1:09:19
that is part of your process to be open-ended and stream of Consciousness you kind of wish maybe it was a little
1:09:24
bit more of a straight line for yourself absolutely yeah okay how about you J me
1:09:30
a lot of time what it yeah is there anything that from Carrie
1:09:37
that you admire that you wish you could Implement for yourself um you know see
1:09:43
it's it's kind of funny she said that because I I kind of go man I wish I could be a little bit more Willy Nelly
1:09:49
uh have to be you know so focused uh that sort ort of thing you know I love I
1:09:55
love car's sense of humor um and how she brings that to her work that sort of
1:10:00
thing and I can get away with a little bit of humor in my work kind of depends on what it is I I love that about her
1:10:07
you know if you if you start talking to her about her inspiration for different things and her stories and you know some
1:10:13
of those things that she comes up with are just I go I don't know where you came up with that but it that's just funny yeah so you know her her ability
1:10:21
to kind of change on the Fly and bring bring the humor that she does to it I
1:10:26
wish I could do that a little bit more but like I've said previously that side of my brain does not it just doesn't
1:10:33
work that way yeah so well that's really cool to hear you guys talk about that I
1:10:38
really appreciate you guys taking time and hanging out with me and and just letting everybody know a little bit more
1:10:44
about The Pierces so it was super fun thanks for doing this it's so
1:10:50
entertaining I love listening to them and now you get to listen to yourself I know I hope we're entertaining we've got
1:10:56
some big names to live up to yeah I don't when you ask me to do this I'm like I don't I don't know that I'm that
1:11:02
interesting I don't I don't know I think everybody feels that way about themselves but honestly the hook in this
1:11:08
whole this whole thing is just knowing that what we feel like is mundane and we
1:11:14
talk just about our process and our situation then everybody else can be
1:11:20
like that's like me I go through that same thing and us artists we are kind of like an enigma
1:11:26
to a lot of the of the population and we sometimes feel like nobody really gets us and that's the fun about this is to
1:11:34
that we get to hear from our peers and and I love that about it so Absolut thank you for sharing yourself well
1:11:40
thank you for having us it was fun all right you guys all right take care okay until we meet again hey have a great
1:11:45
show in uh California I appreciate it all right we'll see you guys later bye all right all right bye bye another
1:11:53
great Midwestern talk there Douglas why are so many of us from the center of the country because we pick a point on the
1:11:59
map and we do the string thing and we go 200 miles from there and boom we're in the perfect place to be an artfare
1:12:05
artist yeah when we relocated I said drop a 300 mile thread on the Mississippi and I'll live anywhere on it
1:12:10
and everybody else involved with the move was like no [ __ ] off we're going to move so much for you and your logic yeah
1:12:17
take your logic shove it all right yeah amazing talk with those guys I don't know I I I think so highly of those uh
1:12:24
those guys Carrie's such a cool painter such an interesting painter and and James is just a nut uh so talented he's
1:12:31
an alchemist turning that wood into metal when he told me that that he starts with flat boards for everything
1:12:37
he does literally mind blown right there I'm like how the heck does yeah so we're not going to give away his Secrets but I
1:12:44
just assumed he was like using a lathe or something right maybe you know he's still a young man maybe maybe one of
1:12:50
these days he'll get wise use those tools to his to his benefit I'm kidding a kid only I he's one of
1:12:56
those friends of mine that I I feel like I we can bust chops a little bit I think that's the way they operate their sense
1:13:01
of humor is on point you know and when Carrie lost her sense of humor you really had to feel like who am I where
1:13:08
am I why don't I find anything funny anymore right like me I don't I don't like
1:13:14
anybody anymore yeah I don't like people Douglas you're just a Kin I'm embracing it it feels good feel
1:13:22
good get down it no I do love uh our fellow artists and and I have to apologize to one uh Michael guard came
1:13:29
up to me in the bathroom behind I was washing my hands but I got the button flies you know and it's
1:13:36
like you it's it's a little bit of an effort and there's like a there's an element of like you linger too long
1:13:42
you're playing with yourself and it's like I don't know it's just you try to do it quickly but I'm buttoning and
1:13:49
turning around to the sink cuz it's one of those trailers and somebody walks up behind me and he's like what are you
1:13:54
pissing in the sink you filthy animal and I'm like I was like no I definitely don't think this is Yankee Stadium cuz
1:14:01
that's the only place I'd ever seen that happen people okay and he was like no I didn't think you thought it was Yankee
1:14:06
Stadium I just thought you had no class and I was I just thought it was like a guy and I just was like f you buddy and
1:14:13
and walked out I was like man and then I realized it's him and it's again it's one of those people that I have AC costic sense of humor with and I never
1:14:20
got back around to apologize to him and totally your kind of humor there will
1:14:25
but it's all about context it's like who is making this joke with me so that I know if I want to laugh at it or not
1:14:33
right I just thought it was a somebody was just busting I was like kind of insulted so anyway sorry Michael I it'll
1:14:39
be good to see you next time um but I never made it back around to see your booth and and uh and let you know that
1:14:45
uh I'm not a prick maybe I am I don't know maybe you are we'll see well before we sign off here you're off to one last
1:14:51
show of the year right off to Chicago going to one of aind well when we pulled in after our last show of the year the
1:14:59
odometer made its last dial at last turn and it comes around to
1:15:05
20,000 miles this year we clocked in on the road amateurs amateurs how about you
1:15:11
what's that gonna end up being do you think uh I make it up at the end of the year I don't even know okay yeah it's um
1:15:17
I don't keep a log book I just I look at my last year's thing and I'm like I did this and this and then it just kind of
1:15:22
makes sense yeah but swapping out your vehicles too it's it's not like it's as easy like we know the start and the end
1:15:29
because we just looked at from beginning and but if you're renting and you've got all these different trips I'm sure yeah
1:15:35
I'm not I'm not clocking the mileage like you guys are I'm I'm writing off the rentals and and um you know with my
1:15:40
truck I am because I did I split truck and Rental this year it was exorbitantly expensive and not worth
1:15:47
it so your theory of is this a good idea maybe the the data has proven otherwise
1:15:54
yeah I don't know to be honest I haven't crunched the numbers we'll see how it goes but it's it's been pretty expensive
1:15:59
yeah yeah yeah all right well then safe drive to Chicago and hope you're feeling
1:16:04
better hope this pack lovd wipes out that uh Co and you are back to your old self again thank you sir yeah I've got
1:16:11
my last dosage tonight I can get this metal Tenny taste out of my mouth and um move on to better things so cheers to
1:16:18
you we'll see you in a couple weeks um I'll have a full report on the Chicago show and and uh my my travels and wins
1:16:25
your surgery it's the end of December so I've got I've got some time uh sounds good get back to your glory hole and you
1:16:33
can't even say glory hole without laughing can you no one can all right
1:16:39
buddy talk to you soon bye this podcast is brought to you by the National Association of Independent Artists the
1:16:46
website is Naia artists.org also sponsored by zapplication that's
1:16:52
zapplication org and while you're at it find us on social media and engage in
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1:17:03
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