Honoring the Past in Present Time/ Mick & Paige Whitcomb

The Whitcomb's are both artists working on their own bodies of work in different mediums. Each captures elements of the past presented with a contemporary eye. Mick Whitcomb https://www.artifactsbynomad.com/ is fixated on the American Machine Age and the advent of electric lighting. He transforms 19th-century machines and scientific instruments into utilitarian sculptures. Paige Whitcomb https://www.paigewhitcomb.com/ creates photos using the traditional method of wet collodion photography with an authentic 19th-century studio camera. She creates tintypes to capture a staged fictional world. Her images are the opposite of modern photography; in a society where anyone can take a picture anywhere, her meticulously staged scenes allow the viewer to see the world through the artist’s perspective, which is often an allegorical view of modern culture.


Visual artists Douglas Sigwarth https://www.sigwarthglass.com/ and Will Armstrong http://www.willarmstrongart.com/ co-host and discuss topics affecting working artists. Each episode is a deep dive into a conversation with a guest artist who shares their unique experiences as an independent professional artist.

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Transcript

0:00
[Music]
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welcome to the independent artist podcast sponsored by the National Association of Independent Artists also
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sponsored by zapplication I'm will Armstrong and I'm a mixed media artist I'm Douglas sigworth glass blower join
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our conversations with professional working artists
0:31
welcome back artists and Artisans here we are it's the podcast Independent Artists podcast back for another week
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Douglas how are you sir I'm going to use my usual I'm good but I'm actually a little bit rundown had the covid booster
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and my flu shot yesterday so it's a pajama day all day today so lucky it's
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not a video podcast yeah that uh that knocked me out actually worse I felt worse with the U this is like oh we're
0:57
going to get sued this was my person experience it doesn't match up with everybody's but I felt worse with the
1:03
vaccine than I did um when you had the actual virus so yeah wow that's awful
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and I know you got it pretty bad you got Co pretty bad you were down for the count for a while yeah but uh the co
1:14
booster was afterwards and I'm like a goldfish and I swim around the bowl and I can't remember the next thing that I've done so uh memory is is um my enemy
1:22
I guess if you will um how how'd your van do while going back home did you
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guys drive okay uh everything everything work out everything was good are you going somewhere with this or yeah I'm
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going somewhere it's like vemic 23 is is what uh we're dealing with I I feel like every single person that I've talked to
1:41
has had car troubles or van troubles including our our dear friend Matt Heming house who had his van stolen how
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awful I mean it doesn't even drive like a and this is probably why they nabbed it because it was easy to hot wire or
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whatever but yeah right out of the artist parking from between 9:00 a.m.
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and 5:30 when he went back to get it somebody nabbed it went for a joy ride what a nightmare to have all your stuff
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broken down on the street and we just go back to get our van and it's gone and be
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like it wouldn't have been towed because it was parked in artist parking so that goes right to it getting stolen so that
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my heart goes out to him on that one he ended up piling it all into uh Michael Cole's van with him he has a bigger
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bigger truck and they they go back roughly the same place Missouri so um managed to get a ride back then but
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here's my particular troubles and and this I I refused to talk to you about this on the street because I was so
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pissed off I didn't think we'd be talking about your truck this week yeah so when I was on the way and maybe we'll
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post this picture because it it's a crazy it almost looks like a painting but it was like 8 o'l in the morning the sun should
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have been well up and it is night dark outside with those that Inky like
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ominous sky and I drove my truck like through the dark burgundy red to get to
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Kansas City from Santa Fe like the way the front was lined up oh my God I drove
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three and a half hours which was the remainder of my trip that morning in the
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burgundy right and I'm dealing with hail and wind it's pushing me all over the
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road uh windshield wipers I mean it's it's it's a nasty storm and I didn't
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think too much of it other than the fact that you know that sucked until I got to the show and I start chugging my truck
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is just like and it started getting a a exhaust system alert which same exhaust system
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that alert that I had when I had my catalytic converter ripped out oh somebody had sawed that sucker out but
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it's the same warning so I'm like it's a bad converter because I just looked at it because you know OCD yeah right is it
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still there is it still there yeah just before yeah how about now how about so uh I took it to a mechanic uh God Lov
4:04
Sharon Spiller for for being uh I was like Sharon you live in Kansas City who's a good mechanic up guy well I
4:11
called him he shifted me up somebody else because I have diesel went to these guys and they're like they bring back my
4:18
air filter he's like I think we found the problem yeah I had so much water in
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the I mean the cars are designed to be able to drive through rain folks but there was so much water uh coming into
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my intake and just blowing up under the hood that my air filter got completely soaked and sucked into the intake so oh
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my too heavy it got way too heavy and just sucked right in there so he pulls out this mangled spitball air filter
4:45
he's like well looked pretty clean it's not your fault but um anyway got a new
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air filter got home but that sounds like it was a even though it was a worrisome it seemed like a pretty quick fix yeah
4:57
easy fix but you know those I don't know how you you are with those 12-hour drives I'm a huge I don't know once it gets dark I can't see that well yeah I
5:04
can't see anymore I know so yeah you know starting the trip at 10: a.m. as opposed to 7 am. and I I wasn't going to
5:10
make it um so and getting to fall we have these shorter days so end of summer
5:16
end of fall drives tend to be shorter days on the road than when we're you know we got some till late yeah good
5:23
point good point well hey you coined a phrase this weekend now when I heard through the grape vine that there's a
5:29
new will armstrongism uh can you talk about this productive zero or useful zero something
5:36
in regards it's like [ __ ] that [ __ ] that there was nothing productive about
5:41
that zero no there was nothing productive about it you ever have a bad night and you're at the you know opening
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night happens at plaits 5 to 10 it's like I I did bad like zero sales okay
5:56
but like everybody that I talk to I talked to all the people that I felt like I was going to sell to you for the
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rest of the weekend it's like well that was you know I did my work you know I laid the groundwork and I was talking to
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Jeff zackman about that and I I said yeah it was like a yeah it was a zero but it felt like a productive zero and
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he was like he laughed he's like yeah yeah it was a productive zero tonight and I I talked to him later in the
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weekend he was like that zero was not productive nothing productive about it was not a productive zero that was just a regular old shitty zero oh buber God
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but whatever I don't want to hear your sympathies we take our lumps right we do take them that's true we we absolutely
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do so I did fine um it was mediocre but some people did great some people did
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whatever but it's like any show how many shows right any show we sometimes our heroes or losers or in somewhere in
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between so whatever you just called me a loser was not cool yeah sorry man you're just a huge loser not cool I don't know
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how many bad shows in a row does it take until you're just you spiral into um I saw well for you it's one and a half
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right one typically one one dip at the well I'm like nope I'm my work is p a
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the industry has passed me by nobody thinks I'm young and cool anymore I suck
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well uh we had a situation I wanted to talk about it's kind of funny we had a couple of sales that were in the rain
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but people didn't want to they they were like we didn't have any way to get it home can you please bring it on Monday
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and that's a lot of times it's part of our discussion with people is yes we'll we'll deliver it hang whatever so we
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have the pieces in the booth for the whole weekend with nice enticing red dots on them but then it's like
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everywhere we turn there's like either drunk people waving their hands around or kids and suddenly we become extremely
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paranoid that these pieces that we were happy to sell might not end up going back to the the place where they're
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going to go because they could get broken so we had a little bit of a nerve rra on that does belong to you anymore
7:57
at that point it's theirs so you're like oh god I've got somebody else's super expensive thing in my my booth it's
8:03
weird because you know we're used to handling glass and moving it around but suddenly after it's sold the value kind
8:09
of sinks in like it's been given to you and then you might have to give it back you know it's kind of a whole different
8:15
feeling yeah I feel the same way you know what I started doing and I'm not alone at this but um when I don't feel
8:22
like doing the deliveries I say Well they're they're trying to negotiate it and I was like I always pitch them hey
8:27
I've got an idea why don't I take it back to my hotel I'll wrap it up tight and leave it with the Bellman you can pick it up at your
8:32
leisure you don't have to come back into the art show and they're like done cuz yeah good you made your purchases you
8:39
don't typically want to come back yeah totally that's a good plan man uh I don't know about you this weekend but I
8:46
got another great neighbor whenever we're next to The Graces Keith and Sher Grace we have just a fantastic time not
8:54
necessarily just with the sales but with you know the camaraderie that they make for really great neighbor I love those
9:00
guys they're really really sweet people they I ran into them at the coffee shop so yeah but it made me think about so we
9:07
had set up our booth where you know we're 10 x 10 in a 12 x 12 space and we spread ours apart from each other so we
9:14
were kind of like our Alleyway was shared and we could sit and talk the whole weekend perfect yeah but then I
9:19
and what he's talking about is you know if Keith and Sherry slid to the left Doug and Renee slid to the right makes a
9:26
4 foot almost gives you a corner sure there I did the same thing with my neighbors well it made me think about
9:32
how much I enjoyed spending the weekend with them and then I thought to myself are there ever the cases out there in
9:38
art fair land where we don't want to be that up close and personal with our neighbors you know what I mean oh yeah
9:45
almost most of the time yeah like the other all the other times all the other times right yeah no
9:53
I I get you cuz like uh I was lucky enough to be able to share space you know that little Alleyway in St Louis
9:58
with Michael Co and um it just kind of was like a weekend long conversation that's cool and um but at the same time
10:06
yeah I don't typically you know I love to be able to to to dip in talk to the
10:11
neighbor and dip back out and as long as you've got like the guy that or you just
10:17
say guy un asexually uh just those guys amb ambig
10:23
genderly um I just was like you know as long as you have the person that understands the conversation right that
10:30
makes me insane when you've got the neighbor that kind of wants to follow you around and talk and even into a sale
10:36
I I've been known to physically push people oh really just push push you get
10:42
out push that's that's a good point because I I did notice like whenever Keith or Sherry would turn their head to
10:48
look in their Booth or if I ever turned to look back into our booth it's like conversation done we could pick it up
10:54
later it's like customers first they're Pros but have you ever had a situation where the neighbor that you were next to
11:00
is a little bit of a nightmare that you might want to talk about cuz I do oh uh yeah I mean I've had um super
11:09
unpleasant uh awning right in the middle of my piece cigar chomping smoking guy
11:15
I've had him you know running his mouth which is never Pleasant yeah there's always going to be somebody that doesn't
11:22
understand the conversation or or even worse if if they have a Spiel where they repeat the Spiel over everybody's got
11:28
their spiel and I'm sure people have gotten sick of hearing me run my mouth but uh I remember this one guy you know
11:33
the just just the repetitive neighbor is what kills me I know it's you're chopping at the bit there you got a story yes I do so there was a one
11:42
situation worst worst interaction of my life and I show up to my booth we set up
11:48
the day before and the person who was our neighbor was setting up that morning
11:53
so I show up and whatever they had going on I'm sure they had a lot of other stresses that really didn't have
11:59
anything to do with me but at some point in the rolling up the sides and putting
12:05
our work out this person was like started hollering at me what I I I'm sure I did something to
12:13
upset them I wasn't clear in the moment what it was a lot of stuff that seemed like it was being aimed at some other
12:19
person in in their life but they they just got so upset and Keith herbrand and
12:24
Glenn Woods would probably remember this like it was yesterday even though it was like 20 years ago they were the other
12:31
side of me and they were literally doing the Open Wide look like I can't believe this is happening it's like a big
12:38
massive fight or whatever then all weekend long whenever this exhibitor had
12:43
a friend come in their Booth I got so paranoid because they'd be looking my way and I'd be like so I had to relive
12:50
it the entire weekend this whole scene bizar it was totally bizarre totally yeah I had to I I carry extra propanels
12:57
in my in my uh truck and I had a one it was at um gosh what
13:02
what's the show Third Street portion of of St James and they give you a ton of room everybody's kind of got a got a
13:08
corner area I did I don't remember exactly what it was but I I took my Pro panels and I built a little box I didn't
13:14
had I mean it was so obvious I didn't have any artwork on it at all but he was one of these must be nice neighbors and
13:21
he's like must be nice to have a a coffee I was like yeah I I bought it
13:28
like you would you know oh where' you get that sandwich I was like from the sandwich store you idiot go get your own
13:34
sandwich I'm like I'm doing my thing and uh my neighbor my neighbor Bruce could tell
13:40
how insane I was getting he follows me to the bathroom and I'm in the bathroom or the Porton he comes up to the Porton
13:47
and Whispers In must be nice to take a job anyway there's your nauseating
13:53
Banner for for this week well you lucky you have the ability to build yourself a cubicle you know what I mean and just
14:01
shut out shut them out I'll Build That Wall yeah I'm about to sail sorry sorry
14:06
buddy oh yeah it was an interesting show I I thought you know uh our good friends
14:11
Amy and Phil Amy Flynn one of their they had a tribute artist there but it was not the same tribute artist it was a
14:18
tribute artist of the tribute artist so it's like really uh yeah it was moved
14:24
right so like how low can you go Bots I guess if you want it was not a good
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scene I kind of like like wow those are the designs of the previous ripoff artist it was kind of like a game of
14:36
telephone yeah um yeah they they didn't need to worry about those particular artists they were just getting once more
14:43
removed it means a shittier and shittier if you will sorry about that they they
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don't know who I'm talking about well you know um Amy said in her episode earlier this year that the copycats
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spurred her on so I I wonder if the reverberations you know down the
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line if they're spurring are on too yeah you know what I said about that one [ __ ]
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you call [ __ ] I could see Bill was spurned on I could see he was he was pretty pretty uh pretty spurned on if
15:14
you will just one of those scenes you run into and it never I don't know we've all run into that kind of thing whether
15:20
it's a somebody breaking the rules or whatever but the more you talk to them or talk about it it just shakes you off
15:26
your game so hopefully those guys were able to focus and and have a good show all right Somewhere Out There Dylan
15:32
stasinski just took a drink will just so you know J I'm here for your liver
15:40
Dylan hey so we this is something that is kind of interesting for art show
15:45
artists and I actually saw it brought up on one of the forums recently and as
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artist do you ever find that you know our acquaintances in our world who aren't artists maybe like family or
15:59
friends who aren't artists that if you use the phrase I need to go to work or I'm I'm ready to go to work and they
16:05
look at you like oh you got a job you know what I mean like they don't understand what it means when we say we
16:12
have to work absolutely I mean the beauty of our our job is that we can take our time off when we like uh and we
16:19
can be flexible but uh it is it has to be a job I mean the reality is we end up working a lot more than your typical 40
16:26
hour week for sure you know so um yeah I don't know I I i' I've developed a
16:33
pretty pretty good Persona there people have just treat me like like you're a bank my wife runs a very nice screen for
16:41
me oh good she's like don't go out there don't talk to them so I I'm sure they think I'm just a huge weirdo but she
16:48
takes I think the most of the fire on that one sometimes the family just thinks that because we work in our
16:54
studio that we can drop anything and just you know what I mean and and and that that's something we're very
17:00
familiar with and it it is a little bit difficult sometimes to explain well I'm
17:06
working I'm in the middle of something right now I can't just like put something down and take a break or
17:11
whatever right I mean with you guys it's especially you know you can sacrifice a piece if somebody just comes knocking on
17:17
the door you know I'm like I can forget where I am mentally on my line quality
17:22
and and lose lose the thread on that um you know another thing I I think I've mentioned this before but there was some
17:27
podcast I have try to find the name of it where the people were saying that it takes a good once you've been interrupted by something it takes you 20
17:35
minutes like a 20 solid minutes to get your focus back and you know especially
17:40
as an artist and dealing with that you've got to draw pretty pretty firm boundaries I I solve a lot of that by
17:46
telling people that I work in the nude and nobody's trying to see that like oh God don't want to go anywhere near that one not be like knock knock and you're
17:54
like oh God no who's coming to the door so nobody wants the you could you know so there's your um just tell them that
18:01
folks that's that'll keep them away most people unless really the bad people the
18:06
bad creepy people come yeah that's good that's bad so uh I've had the pleasure
18:13
uh of being neighbors with these lovely folks more at more shows than I can count it almost seems like they've been
18:20
I I feel like at a since I met them they've been within walking you know
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distance a few few booths away like 40 % of the shows that I've done and I couldn't think more highly of this
18:32
couple as as artists and and friends and just good humans well tell the people who you're talking about will oh no it's
18:38
a secret this is just a generic uh opening and I don't even know who I'm going to interview next it's one of
18:44
those shows no we'll spin we'll spin the the the dial and see who comes up that's
18:50
right it's it's Mick and Paige whitcom love those guys both artists um photographer Paige is a photographer and
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Mick is a found object artist and uh definitely falls into the vein of of um
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almost like creating a space and creating an installation for his booth and we we were trying to come up with
19:09
names of other artists that created installations when we had wae on um I've already started I've already fallen back
19:16
to pronouncing his name how I want to me too honestly I have to because it just
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sounds he knows who we're talking about yeah right and you do too so um anyway uh just having Mick and Paige
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uh Wickam on the show has been something that I've wanted to do because I've had so much fun talking to them in the past
19:35
so I know you guys are going to enjoy this and isn't Paige on fire these days she's been getting top awards at top
19:41
shows I'm really excited to hear what you guys talk about in your talk her Booth looked incredible at Cherry Creek
19:47
she won Best in Show uh across the board it was the first time they've given a Best in Show not in category but overall
19:55
and they gave that to her for um for her work in park city which which Mick promptly stole and hung in his Booth
20:01
because it didn't put a name on it so he says it's mine yeah that's that's who we're dealing with folks all right enjoy
20:08
this talk this episode of The Independent artist podcast is brought to you by zap the digital application
20:14
service where artists and art festivals connect hey will do you remember the old way of doing these applications with red
20:20
dots on the slides and self- address stamped envelopes do you uh still have a rotary phone Douglas no I don't remember
20:29
well I just like that they were with us back then when we made the switch from analog to digital it's a huge switch and
20:36
now zap is the industry standard and they're always creating features that make our lives easier too so I do like
20:42
what zap does and I do like that most of the shows I apply to are on zap lication
20:48
exactly so I personally appreciate what zap is doing and thanks for not making us reinvent the wheel every single week
20:54
like we used to have to do hey everybody we have a call to entry this week we and it's from the show artist fear in
21:00
Greenville South Carolina my wife and I both exhibited there last year and as I've said before in the past this show
21:07
is aggressively friendly I've never had the show take such good care of the artists the show runs from May 10th
21:14
through the 12th that's Mother's Day weekend in 2024 and isn't it a great event for mothers I mean doesn't that
21:21
bring out the crowd for Mother's Day it always does I've always found that to be the case people go to brunch and they
21:26
bring mom to the show and get her a little something to take home doesn't mean you can't sell big artwork there
21:31
for uh homes as well I found myself selling large originals and always having a really good time and I do love
21:37
the size of it I mean they keep the exhibitor count reasonable so it feels like it's the right amount for the
21:43
community everybody has an opportunity to do well it definitely is one of these events that has more artists wanting to
21:50
exhibit than uh have the space I mean I feel like there's there's definitely some people left out in the cold on that
21:56
one so get your application and it's just around the corner here it is next week so on October 9th is the last day
22:03
to apply so don't miss this application I got to get back on to zap
22:08
and do it myself me too actually so jump on this people get on there and apply we are here with the with the
22:14
witcom family you guys are are in um what part of Missouri are you in we live in the Ozarks but specifically
22:20
Springfield nice uh one of the many Springfields around the country one of uh every state has a Springfield right
22:26
I've learned that from The Simpsons I think so I was very disappointed to find out uh somebody told me at a show that
22:33
the guy that did The Simpsons announced that Springfield Oregon was the specific Springfield from The Simpsons so we
22:40
can't really just like claim to be one of the possibilities for this I don't think simp yeah I don't think that can
22:47
be true they seem so Midwestern right Central I'd like to hope it's like yeah
22:54
I mean it would be worst news to hear they were from Indiana offense intended uh to any
23:00
Indiana listeners you know how horrible it is so let's get started uh jump right
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into this thing who got into art festivals first like which one of the two of you guys uh I started doing them
23:12
first yeah I remember I met you at Cherry Creek uh one year you were unloading that that your gigantic truck
23:19
and had a big double Booth um I think or even earlier because I met your your
23:24
your blind dog blue yeah he's downstairs awesome that's I love that dog that's oh
23:30
yeah Blue's still chugging away so um you guys are is your background in in
23:35
art Mick is that did that start no mine's not my uh my degree is in
23:41
business and I think it really didn't even start post
23:46
that like Paige and I we were in in Southeast Asia for a couple years and kind of got into manufacturing out there
23:52
rewind okay I I got to hear okay let's start there that's that's where we want to start right there
23:58
what what puts the witcom in how do you guys get together let's start with that how about that oh Dave let me get this
24:03
one I knew this was going to happen I was like he's gonna ask and Mick has a very Fantastical story of how things
24:10
happened that I don't know is entirely accurate that's the kind of story I like that's that is all of my stories um will
24:19
you probably already know this one but so Paige and I we were we were both in in college together we both went to
24:25
Missouri State and I am two years old AG so your your listeners might be
24:32
surprised to hear that I was a bit fratty back in my uh my youth so so uh
24:39
some of my buddies and I we would schedule like to graduate you have to have whatever 25 gen Ed classes or
24:46
whatever it winds up being and so rather than taking them all your freshman and sophomore you're like the dummies in the
24:53
uh College world would do we would schedule wait one me this is not we had an agreed upon
25:02
College story and this is not the agreed is this the better one good one which one's better I want to know I want the
25:08
best one no no no I do not want all of your listeners to know this version of
25:14
events so I would schedule one class it with my my buddy Tyler and ni I'm
25:21
serious don't already I'm like already editing
25:26
yeah she's gonna make anyway um well we had okay so we had a class together in college and uh and I I
25:34
suppose the the diluted version of it is my buddy Tyler was sitting next to Paige
25:41
in class and I uh had a a way of kind of convincing him to to drop out so I could
25:47
shot a seat to the side and put the moves on page and that's where it all kind of began in terms of romance I
25:53
suppose so this is the say anything version versus like the porkis version that
25:59
yeah I guess there's the on camera and the off camera version of of my college pickup lines all right Paige what's your
26:06
version no that's a fine version we'll go with that one ah all right like I
26:11
said before this I said I know will is gonna ask how we met and we have to agree that you will not go off on a
26:20
tangent of something that may or may not be true okay okay so this is an okay this is an acceptable
26:28
the thing that wasn't true is that I was fratty in my youth I have been you know quiet and uh oh he's so shy understated
26:37
my entire life I think the first time I hung out with you guys you asked uh the the server to bring you whatever largest
26:44
vessel would carry um the your beer Choice it was like whatever soate
26:50
talking about like well what what could it be whether it be like just wheel out a mop
26:56
bucket drink I'd be happy with that yeah sure I you
27:01
offered me uh I don't know you're always you're always there for for offering whether it's a a lukewarm beer or a cold
27:08
one however you've got it you're always always the generous absolutely you are
27:14
so you guys met in Missouri state is that what you said y right yeah what do you what you got you mixed study and
27:20
business page what do you studying um at the time I was studying English literature okay very cool and
27:27
did you change that through the middle or I did well so Mick mentioned we lived in Indonesia for 2 years and Mick was
27:34
two years older than I am so when he graduated I was offered the opportunity
27:39
to go with him overseas so I did and I stopped going to school for four years
27:45
total and then I um came back when I was an adult after we had done a few things
27:51
but when I came back I started with English Lit again and then I switched to art history because I found that's what
27:58
I enjoyed a lot more it's still writing but writing about artwork which was more interesting for me yeah that is what
28:04
took you guys to Indonesia so he had an opportunity over there yeah so when when
28:09
I was in college um my dad he uh he owned a private security company in a
28:15
little um Southeast Asian island called East teamour they were formerly Indonesian but they they got their
28:21
independence and that resulted in some negative things so he he wound up going
28:27
over there with that company and then I would work kind of in sumers and go over there for three months a year helping
28:33
out uh with those operations so that's what you know first kind of exposed me to the area but then once I got out of
28:40
school um I had spent some time in Bali just for sanity breaks while while I was
28:45
working out there and I mean you know in terms of being you know 21 having no
28:52
responsibility B is a pretty fun place to do it so right we uh yeah we kind of took the opportunity we moved the day
28:58
after I graduated and you know we were over there basically off and on for
29:04
about two years and that's where we first you know kind of started to dabble in in manufacturing it was initially
29:11
surfboards and then kind of fed into you know other kind of Lifestyle products and resulted in us opening a couple
29:17
retail stores in Springfield cool that's how we got into art shows which we both
29:23
made different kinds of things and had them in our St and we did our local art show which is
29:31
called artsfest on Walnut Street and we were next to some art show artists and
29:36
they said oh where are you from and we said here and and they looked at mix work and they said do you do this all
29:42
the time or are you just doing it because you're in Springfield and it's a local show and we were just doing it at
29:47
the time because it was local and they told us about this whole art show
29:53
industry that we had no idea existed until somebody opened that door for us so yeah we're still very grateful for
29:59
those people for telling us about it do you remember who they were you ever see them again I have seen them but not um
30:06
at an art show I saw them at their Gallery which is in Bentonville Arkansas and I'm sure I could figure out
30:13
what wonderful people yeah yeah we um that and even with that like I didn't
30:19
know that there was like an application portal four shows we just our store was four blocks down the road and you know
30:26
we were part of the art Council and everything so we just said that we were going to you know set up a tent there
30:32
and they really all right and uh and I mean we had like t-shirts and soaps and
30:37
you know selling all the different products we sold in our stores and then uh and then the the lighting was kind of
30:43
what I did as like a you know a sanity break you know we were selling halter tops to college students so I kind of
30:50
lost interest and what we were doing with the store and started you know getting into the the lighting and you
30:56
know my collections of the objects that I build from um is kind of a distraction from that so you know he said you're GNA
31:03
you're going to have to ditch the the candles and the incense burners but these things you know what what I do
31:09
artistically might work out all right in this world and that's kind of how it started yeah so it starts from like a a
31:15
store standpoint just kind of seeing one of these I mean every show kind of has some kind of festival and it's got buy
31:21
sell and it's got this and it's got that and it's like yeah like Susie and I always joke about like when we go up to Minnesota there's this little uh Phelps
31:29
Mill show and we you know we look at that show and like with the caliber of it and like we just kind of want to
31:35
grind it and be like not show my work but like just do like Driftwood Lake puns you know and just like yeah like I
31:43
could definitely do this you know and just kind of man I just want to see if I can you know like we know how to do what
31:49
we're doing so that kind of opens up this other thing like man I wonder if I could uh you know there's a show that I
31:55
do in Chicago that that's kind of you know I've talked about it before but I don't want to now I'm G to badmouth it
32:01
so I don't want to name it by name but you could just you feel like you could just sell whatever you know you could
32:07
just make gift shop but we've seen at other shows you know like some of the
32:12
the the you know kind of more Rough Around the Edges ones that we've we've participated with over the years and
32:19
there are products that we were sourcing out of you know Thailand and Indonesia Malaysia you know different products
32:25
that we were importing into the states and selling through our stores and others yeah but add those Artisans from
32:32
those countries we should car and all kinds of different product lines but I'll be at a
32:38
show and I know exactly you know what this is what region it's from and like we've experienced all of those things
32:44
it's just branded under you know Tim Stevenson or something like some person at the show kind yeah yeah kind of funny
32:52
to to see who's representing if Tim Stevenson is a real artist
32:57
I'm sorry that was a fake nameing this was not directed at you all characters on The Independent artist
33:04
podcasts that have been made up are not based on real characters so uh it is a
33:11
but the first the first show that I ever applied to on zap like after this gentleman kind of told us that you know
33:16
we might be able to make uh some money doing shows uh the first show I ever got into was St Louis heartfare and I might
33:23
have told you this story in the past but yeah so I applied got in which you know
33:28
in hindsight is absolutely remarkable well you know it isn't it isn't I I feel
33:33
like a lot of times when people um I I had real remarkable luck the first time out of the out of the gate with my body
33:40
of work and it it just has to be like people just haven't seen it before so I'm sure you were you were something
33:46
unique and when you applied you might not you know you might be embarrassed by what that application looked like now
33:52
but at the same time when you were there people are like whoa what what is
33:58
yeah so I did that and I didn't really know one show from the other it's just that's really the closest one to us in
34:03
Springfield sure um and then I had applied to another show which I won't say what it is but it I told him before
34:10
this tell the story you cannot say the names I already got in trouble for the Tim Stevenson thing um so I got into
34:19
this other show and I saw the email that they sent out for show B and uh and it
34:25
said average artist sales was like $3,000 for the weekend and so you know I
34:31
I get on the phone and I I called Cindy L um because of course I figured that
34:37
the director would want to talk to me personally and uh I said hey you know I'm kind of new to the industry and I
34:43
was accepted into your show but I just wanted to apologize I'm not going to be able to attend because I saw this other
34:48
show average artist sales is $3,000 a week or whatever the the thing happened
34:54
to be and she was incredibly kind and and laughed at me and informed me that I
35:01
probably wanted to cancel show B and uh that I do you know real well at St Louis
35:06
and I did and and that was you know the the money that we made there was kind of the turning point to where we realized
35:13
selling in larger Urban centers across the country would be far more lucrative than through retail stores in
35:18
Springfield we ended up closing our store I think three months later we made
35:24
all the plans to start doing this professionally and full-time and and
35:30
then we Clos the store after a couple months and we never looked back yeah
35:36
yeah that Gallery Pace versus the the pace of shows it's almost like shows are
35:41
um I mean I see why people want to do it I see why people want to cheat too you know it's like well it's almost like
35:47
these shows are uh Christmas at the at the mall in the 90s you know the mall is
35:53
kicking and it's like the last week before Christmas there's an urgency we only there for a weekend you know it
35:58
comes with a with a high level so I I get it and it's also you know what you're talking about is is similar to
36:05
you know why people don't want to do galleries why they don't want to sit there the energy is a lot lot different
36:11
but would you ever want to go back to that like open up something else or is that I don't know that we ever will
36:17
there's a lot of Temptation for me just because like with what I try to do with with my booth display like I I really
36:25
love kind of creating an like environment kind of placing people in this this world of the past I think that
36:31
helps people kind of absorb the you know the stories that I try to tell you know with with what I do artistically so I'm
36:38
kind of burdened by the fact that you know we have to be able to you know erect it and break it down in you know
36:44
three day increments or two- day increments sometimes yeah so does that affect that the shows that you do like
36:50
what you'll what you are willing to do like the morning setups or just a two-day show I you only looking for for
36:56
longer ones are you willing still to to do these these short shows no I do them all I we're just yeah glutton for for
37:04
punishment and paig is in considerably better shape than I am so she usually pulls the weight in terms of setup and
37:10
breakdown but uh I mean we do like we've done a bunch of the Florida shows with the morning setups and it's never ideal
37:17
but you know we're usually able to to get through it but if I did like if we had a longer term installation even if
37:23
it was like quarterly popups or something we have so many remarkable things just in our Collections and
37:29
showrooms and you know we could bring our our you know nicer leatherbound
37:35
books and you know some of the really remarkable decorative objects to kind of frame the theme and the time period of
37:41
the pieces that we build from in terms of the actual artwork we were talking um
37:46
coule was it this season or last I can't remember I was talking to wae and he does an installation you know his his
37:52
Booth ISE Neil and he'll he'll do the the installation we've all seen and we were trying to come up with other
37:58
artists that do kind of installations and you create kind of um if I'm if I'm
38:04
pitching your booth to a show then I'm like it kind of gives a visual break
38:09
between the white tents too it's like this installation where you're walking past and you're like whoa here here's
38:14
this shop here's this like Apothecary shop almost like this kind of uh I
38:19
wouldn't I wouldn't want to say that because it kind of sounds like maybe an insult but um not not steampunk
38:27
uh at all but definitely this kind of like take you back in time but there's a modern flare to it as well so yeah and I
38:33
think that that is you know even if it weren't just you know my work specifically but there are a few artists
38:39
that you know kind of cater to a more industrial theme and you know yeah you
38:45
know there will be you know a couple steampunk artists at the shows as well but even for people that really you know
38:52
aren't drawn to what I do artistically or you know some of those I do think just that that visual break that you
38:58
were talking about can kind of serve all the artists pretty well because you know when you get back to you know whatever
39:04
ones of being you know more vibrant colors or contemporary work you're a little bit more receptive
39:11
to it you know because you got the whatever that little leafy stuff they serve with sushi it cleanses your
39:18
palette you are the ginger in the in the grocery store Sushi Pack I'm the art
39:23
show Ginger baby nice well somebody told me whenever we were
39:29
first getting into this industry how important it is to have that something about your work that causes people to
39:37
break their focus and focus on your work itself and somebody said even having
39:43
like a rug down or how people have tiles something that's tactile that right
39:48
causes people to hyperfocus on your work and not all the surrounding things and
39:54
so I think M does a really good job at that at taking people's focus and centering it on what he is trying to
40:00
Showcase yeah and you're it's um and we're we're kind of hanging on Mick and
40:06
because he started but I I did like I I was talking a page about um a jury and
40:13
it was a show like you had said I wish Mick could talk to people about his work
40:19
and explain like everything that goes through it so that they would understand it's like well hell this is the opportunity um you know it's like here
40:26
you go talk to everybody um what is it about your work that I mean how are you I mean I know it's very considered like
40:32
what the objects that you are looking for tell me tell me about your work like what what goes into it and the creation
40:38
of it and and what your thought process is behind it yeah I um I actually like
40:44
and I might have told you this before but I've always I mean I love your work kind of visually but with what you do in
40:51
terms of Storytelling you know you have these these characters and then the different you know surroundings and like
40:57
whatever you pick up in terms of the the Nuance of the the images kind of fill in kind of the the context of what their
41:03
stories may have been or that's you know one of the things that I've I've kind of felt viewing it and that's that's kind
41:09
of what I try to do sculpturally you know you have these objects of the past
41:14
and you know whether it's a sexon or a microscope or telescope or regardless of what it is um but you know there's a
41:22
tremendous you know history to the objects and then you've got Technologies of the past whether that's you know
41:28
Edison's designs behind the incandescent bulb or or Tesla's designs behind alternating current and you know I I try
41:36
to kind of pair the two to you know kind of shine a light on um you know this
41:42
kind of lost generation of objects you know historically kind of the origin of
41:48
of modern industry but functionally you know pieces that are that are obsolete
41:54
today so it's it's more you know kind of narrative than it is just you know
41:59
attractive things on a shelf but that kind of you know abstraction that you
42:05
get in terms of altering you know what are essentially just Antiques and reworking them into something that has a
42:12
hair more utility naturally kind of draws attention to the to the pieces and
42:19
once you know once you kind of get the the wheels turning in your head about
42:24
you know recognizing that you have you know an object that is not quite right and you're kind of wondering you know
42:30
where the lighting comes into play you start to reflect a hair more on you know
42:35
what the object was or what it's become and you know those stories are you know what I really enjoy kind of pitching
42:42
people on and talking to people about and you can kind of fill in the gaps in terms of what you're more drawn to and
42:48
you know Imagining the characters that would have experienced them through the years right you've got it's funny that
42:54
you say that and and I wonder if that's when um why we've been neighbors so often too when you're putting a show
43:00
together it's like these kind of stories that I'll play with the past and the present and um tell out of focus kind of
43:07
narratives and um I think you do the same thing if you ever been next to Mick uh he's he's constantly talking and
43:14
engaging with people and talking about the history of these objects and then there's something about the presentation
43:20
of that and the way you're you're putting your lights into it and running new electricity through these pieces and
43:26
just telling a a a different narrative that kind of creates its own um own space its own space and time um yeah
43:33
that's the always the goal and it's fun too you know because I do have people that you know are just kind of drawn to
43:39
them at the surface level you know they've got kind of an industrial design and their Loft department they like
43:45
things that are you know cast iron or they you know they have the Edison bulbs as kind of a design thing but those are
43:51
never the the sales that I I really enjoy the the conversation I enjoy you
43:56
you've got a a retired surgeon and you know their
44:02
entire career has been a linear growth of you know lisst 1860s discovery of
44:10
germ Theory and there's one very specific microscope that lisst used um
44:15
with all of his you know research and you know it's kind of the the turning point from you know amputation based
44:22
medicine to investigation based medicine and um natural history the medical applications for the the compound
44:29
microscope so when you can kind of pair those two and you can kind of connect you know the object with you know the
44:37
the individual it's it's a very fun thing you know and then when he's sitting down
44:42
and pouring himself a you know a glass of scotch at night you know he's got this physical object that kind of
44:48
represents you know what he is chosen in terms of you know livelihood or interest or whatever it might be yeah I I agree
44:55
it it becomes kind of part of um I mean certain Jewelers uh they sell something
45:01
and it becomes part of their own um their own style their own character you know it becomes like a signature piece
45:07
um I can see you selling sign signature pieces to a room um kind of kind of
45:13
transformative pieces to a room um as far as that kind of stuff goes did you
45:18
always you were creating these pieces like even when you were doing like as a side thing as you you created your first
45:24
kind of shop uh is right just like as as background stuff or were you selling them initially because it started with
45:31
kind of our collections of the object we were like kind of just generally collecting scientific Innovations from
45:37
the 19th century for a little while so I think it was more just a distraction
45:43
from you know something that I didn't enjoy professionally so I was just right kind of tinkering with things for the
45:51
you know the the sake of passing time and I think that's when I first started to build a concept you know started to
45:58
figure out where I was going to go with the things sculpturally so I don't know when we started selling them necessarily
46:05
it was while we still had the store open but um it was probably deep into a bunch of really
46:13
really crummy versions of something that didn't become the body work that I do
46:19
today well I think your scope has changed too because initially you were inspired by different scientific
46:25
mechanical instruments and as you've been doing this work your scope has changed to a specific time period and a
46:32
specific quality of instrument too yeah yeah and that is one of the things that
46:37
is really helpful with what I do is because I I've always had just kind of the same margins and that started to
46:43
make sense for me when we had our retail stores because you know the the criticism that you get is like you know
46:49
why is this $3,000 and that one is $1,000 and for me it becomes very simple
46:55
because I you know I bought that one for $2,000 I bought this one for $600 it's the margins are the same with everything
47:02
that I deal in so if there ever is you know any criticism or interest in the
47:07
the price point you know it's it's very transparent you know I say well you know
47:12
I I feel the same way we were at auction and I was bidding on you know this telescope and I wanted to get it for500
47:18
bucks and it's $2,000 and it's $2,500 and now it's a very expensive piece so
47:23
yeah um that is one the things that's kind of fun about dealing and found objects is when we're doing shows to
47:29
where we need to accommodate a lower price point all build from you know objects that are less notable
47:35
historically things that are not quite as complete in terms of the condition and then when we're doing you know
47:40
really high-end shows to where there's you know a demographic that is you know receptive to those higher price points I
47:47
can go nuts you know like I I've got remarkable pieces of history and I don't
47:55
have to you know I don't have any insecurity about what the the price point might be I can build from you know
48:03
ticker tapes and you know 18 cry observation telescopes and these things that are usually priced you know higher
48:10
than than what I would feel comfortable selling but if you're in Sun Valley Idaho you don't have to have the same
48:16
you know concerns as you know when you're in Arkansas right yeah that that makes
48:21
sense but it mean you never know who you're going to find in Arkansas true down there yeah right oh man I saw I was
48:29
at Fort Worth one year when um uh one of the Walton family was walking down the
48:35
street and it was early the show had just opened up and those in the know were kind of like you know stiffening up
48:41
there like oh my God there's more money than God just walk on the street and this woman her jewelry booth next to me
48:48
I was getting ready to tell her who it was and she was like the the lady comes in it's like seriously the richest lady
48:54
in America you're like here here's my card I'll be open in 10 minutes oh my go you're likea yeah she was super
49:02
offended we're like yep you just defended the richest lady in the world oh my God I mean that's not even an
49:08
exaggeration the richest lady in the world all right uh so we've what tell me
49:14
some you guys go on um like big kind of do you do mostly auction or do you kind of pick in kind of things is is American
49:21
Pickers kind of the bane of your existence for making your prices go SK high or how's that looking I think yeah
49:30
I think more than anything it has just convinced people at art shows that like
49:35
finding the things that I build from is incredibly easy because they're like oh you know I saw something old turn up in
49:42
a barn on a TV show and it's it's a very you know finding a a hay trolley from
49:47
the 1920s is a very different Endeavor than finding a you know a a Victorian
49:52
harp scale or something along those lines when we first were starting we we
49:58
found more in that kind of like ticking Avenue stopping in different antique stores and stuff but that was mostly
50:04
just because um we hadn't honed in quite so specific of a a time period or a
50:11
theme as I have now like everything that I deal in now Falls in line where there
50:16
was or in the time period that there was innovation in the way of early electric current so the the bulbs the sockets the
50:22
cord everything that I add to the pieces in terms of Hardware is historically
50:27
100% historically in line with the time period of the objects that I build from um so it's a much more specific time
50:35
period of objects that we seek out and that you know kind of requires us to go to more notable auction houses in terms
50:42
of finding really remarkable pieces and more than anything I'll take those pieces which you know maybe that's a uh
50:50
you know a Galileo era observation telescope a $50,000 telescope and
50:55
will'll trade that to collectors that we deal in one $50,000 instrument that
51:01
should obviously never be altered should stay as part of you know a museum or some institutional collection and I'll
51:07
trade that $50,000 instrument for $25 $2,000 instruments and those $2,000
51:12
instruments you know there's something that is damaged they not salvageable mechanically and I can alter them
51:18
without you know having some sort of panic attack about destroying history
51:23
interesting so you do respect to that that kind of thing you're you have vendors or or people that deal in that
51:30
kind of stuff that that you can call like you find stuff and your eyes light up and you're like holy crap here's a
51:35
they're asking $4,000 for this $50,000 thing right and you're kind of you're so is that part of your business are you
51:41
trading back behind the scenes with different things yeah it's almost all trading at this point because you just
51:47
you really can't find with how specific I am in terms of the objects that I seek out they just I
51:53
mean they very very rarely just surface you know Regional auction houses or you
51:59
know estate sales or something along those lines but the collectors that hold these things like fans specifically
52:06
there's a braid surgeon in Arkansas that has the largest collection of early electric fans in the world and it's more
52:12
than 10,000 fans and none of them are duplicates so you he's got he's got two
52:17
1913 Emerson tank fans but one was made in the Chicago Factory one's made in the St Louis Factory so like guy like that
52:26
it's not like I can convince him to sell me things because he's got far more money than I do but if I have right an
52:32
Edison electric fan that he doesn't have in his collection I can convince him to trade me all of his duplicates in
52:39
exchange for this one thing that he doesn't have and we do that with you know collectors of every range of things
52:45
nautical collectors with you know sextin and ship wheels and binnacles and we do it with you know collectors of early
52:52
telegraphy and microscopes and it basically just kind of goes across the board but that one auction house that we
52:59
go to in terms of seeking these objects um despite the fact that we're spending
53:05
astronomical amounts of money on individual pieces that's what gets us into the door in terms of trading with
53:11
these collectors that we deal with more regularly yeah I I one I think the first
53:16
time that we really I mean we' we've met and been neighbors and stuff but uh the first time I spent any time with you guys um you had a big double booth in
53:23
Cherry Creek and I think had a great weekend it was a great weekend there and um you said something on the way out and
53:30
you're like well uh you know you were kind of look kind of frazzled and you're like yeah I had a great weekend but I just spent it like you just spent it on
53:38
you know just you're like well I just reloaded uh that that all went away I'm
53:43
like God that's you know it's almost like a jeweler buying gold you know diamonds and um the the astronomical
53:51
cost like he said of of keeping your business going and Paige yours is kind of um it almost seemed like and it this
53:57
does I don't mean this in any way demeaning but it's almost like a spin-off he's taking that 18th century piece of equipment and it's like okay
54:03
let's just use this and there are very few people doing T type I mean there's very few people shooting just in film
54:10
right um you know whether it's it's um C hobgood or or Kristen shalach and many
54:15
other others that we know and respect but you are shooting in like taking that
54:21
kind of is it 18th century is that 19th century 19th I don't know anything
54:26
you're good that's why you're here you're good you're good the tent type method of Photography was invented in
54:33
1853 in France but it wasn't brought over to the states until 1856 so it was primarily used in the
54:41
1860s during the Civil War and then it died out in the 1870s to the album impr print because with tin types they are
54:48
technically direct positives meaning there are no negatives in the sense that you can make duplicates from so since
54:54
they're metal there's no way of passing light through the image to make a um
55:00
print and it wasn't very popular for that reason at that time but today it's novel in this digital age that we're in
55:07
where you can have endless additions of all these different types of things or you know AI is creating things and
55:13
whatnot it's pretty sorry that's a whole different tangent that we yeah that's just that's a huge hot button
55:21
like oh will just vomited in his own lap that's why awkward for the show but yeah it is I
55:29
but you you were creating these things as like I went into your booth and was
55:34
blown away I mean you you were telling these elaborate sensitive I mean I say elaborate that they're elaborately posed
55:40
but really thoughtful and sensitive stories and uh within your work and that
55:45
really are evocative and thank you you can't get another right like if i s if I
55:51
fall in love with a piece of yours I've got to get it right singular additions
55:58
so I really like keeping it true to the process and that there are no duplicates
56:04
of anything so if you want something this is all that I have I will say say I've gone to some location and I've
56:12
staged an entire scene I will take a few photos at that scene however different
56:18
lighting different chemical flares the models have different movements all these different things happen that
56:23
contribute to each image looking entirely different from the next but if there is an image that you look at and
56:30
you think I have to have it then that is the only one that I have right you
56:35
better get it yeah that is that's insane like I that there's an immediacy to your
56:41
work like like a painter almost you know that doesn't duplicate or or revisit uh
56:47
compositions that there's an immediacy that if it's when it's gone it's gone you kind of Beth borski too I just get I
56:54
get really bored even say I've had an image for like five shows which of
56:59
course I've had images for longer than that but of course I get sick of looking at things so I'll get tired of it myself
57:08
and then sometimes I'll come back to it and I'll really enjoy it again but for me it keeps me moving and keeps pushing
57:15
me to create more work and to keep challenging myself and I think that's been good to always be creating that's
57:21
something Mick and I were discussing before coming on the podcast was just our different creative processes and I
57:28
think something we have in common is that we both get really antsy if we're not doing something creative that
57:34
doesn't mean that we have to be constantly making our work but we have different Outlets that we like to
57:40
express that creativity and I really like to cook um you know a lot of what
57:46
we do together also is restoring historic homes or historic buildings and that's creative in its own right so we
57:52
both just always have to be constantly moving and working on different things or we just get anxious so I guess that's
57:59
a good thing that we're both Workaholics yeah that is I mean you guys you and uh that's Susie and I like
58:06
sitting around that's we don't make anything sitting no I'm kidding we both but no I mean we
58:13
talk about that all the time about work and and we as artists end up working so
58:19
much more like we dictate our own hours but Douglas and I were talking about that at the beginning of the show but um
58:24
what that ends up being is is just working a lot harder than than even 40h
58:30
hour weeks it's just your constant like 40 hour week would be a vacation almost it's enjoyable work I will say but yeah
58:38
sometimes it would be nice to get away from it you know like definitely like this morning I was making a doctor's
58:45
appointment and I was trying to do the scheduling and I was like well let me look at my schedule and and I had all
58:50
these just tiny little things that you have to do you know like send invoice right call check in or whatever it is
58:56
and I was like uh I can do it at this time and she said oh that sounds nice to work for yourself and I said it is but I
59:03
also never stop working right yeah that's that's what
59:09
that's oh that's so nice you get to work for yourself it's like well yeah I can go have lunch with you know this person
59:16
and just take a break and I don't have to ask anybody but um right yeah then I'm going to work you I'm behind and or
59:22
I don't know people don't end up respecting your time and and that ends up being hard right but uh okay so when
59:28
you're talking about when when you guys work you have to take these how I mean how big is your camera um what what here
59:35
but how big is the size M I'm bad with like weight and size like the camera so
59:41
Paige is is very specific about only using historic equipment there are
59:47
certain clodan artists that will adapt modern cameras with back plates that
59:53
will allow them to shoot wet plate and then there are kind of the the purest and paig you know winds up falling in
1:00:00
that cam so her her actual equipment is original to the 19th century resulting
1:00:06
in the camera being probably 50 pounds you see it yeah the camera's probably 50
1:00:12
pounds yeah and on kind of a tripod it's like you know three or four feet tall you know so it's a pretty substantial
1:00:19
piece of equipment and you are like when you're pre doing those plates I mean I'm I'm seeing your work is not small well I
1:00:25
will say I shoot on 8 by10 and then the really big pieces in my booth are
1:00:30
enlargements of the plates so it's a combination of historic method of Photography with contemporary technology
1:00:37
I do an archal film scan of the 8 by10 plate and then make an enlargement from
1:00:44
that um which historically that would not have been possible but because of today's technology we're able to do that
1:00:50
and then those are all still one out of one and every enlargement comes with the plate it's enlarged from so it's like me
1:00:58
giving you the negative even though it's a direct positive but you know some photographers us to do that so you know
1:01:04
that I'm not making any copies of this image that's incredible even though you have the ability to make copies of it
1:01:10
and that goes back to me just being sick of looking at my own work all the time
1:01:15
yeah I think there's something really admirable about that and also kind of like mindboggling to be honest uh just
1:01:21
kind of like oh my God that's so much work but then you get to put a certain
1:01:26
price point on it I would imagine that that can keep that lucrative and keep you in business too I do think it all
1:01:33
balances out there are times where I think wow I could be making a lot more
1:01:39
money if I offered prints just from people asking for them and or course
1:01:44
shows that are more print shows you know um where that's what the buyer is after
1:01:51
but for me I've learned that I actually kind of like the way game because I really enjoy having those connections
1:01:58
with my clients and being able to talk to them and hear what they're bringing
1:02:04
to the table what they see in the image which might not always be what I intended but I really appreciate that um
1:02:11
and so I really appreciate having those interconnected conversations that are
1:02:17
more thoughtful and enjoyable for me as a person so i' I think I'd prefer to wait and sell it to that one person that
1:02:24
I know really really really wants it and that's just the way I've done it and I am sticking to it absolutely it me
1:02:32
there's a lot of Integrity to it and it's a different game it's a different uh business model than a lot of folks have on the street it's like uh like say
1:02:39
a digital artist that enjoys selling multiple uh pieces and needs the energy of selling boom boom boom or a
1:02:44
photographer that that has a a bin that that has to sell a number of those
1:02:50
pieces and needs that energy within their own booth in order to keep going I mean I I remember talking I've said this
1:02:57
a bunch of times and quoted him a bunch of times but Aaron heckenberg talking about his booth and saying well I'm set up for big numbers I have big pieces
1:03:03
with big price tags and sometimes those big numbers are are round you I walk away with zero um you know and then
1:03:12
that's it's that's the business model and sometimes you're like oh my God you must go to shows sometimes and you're like just not having the right
1:03:20
conversations or you're in the yeah I will say I I think think my work
1:03:25
definitely attracts a specific kind of person it is not something that the average person
1:03:32
really enjoys I do think the images are a little bit darker and can be a little
1:03:39
ethereal and just a subject matter I mean not to get too deep but I guess
1:03:44
I'll get deep because we're talking about art and that's kind of what art is but um I started working on this
1:03:50
specific series the memory series that you've seen the last couple years at these shows because um I lost my little
1:03:57
brother whenever he was 16 and that was 10 years ago this year and so wow this
1:04:02
body of work was me really moving through that and and learning to accept
1:04:08
the idea at least this is the way I see things that um if somebody is not here anymore that doesn't mean that you can
1:04:15
forget it's important to keep people in your memory and to remember the positive times that you had with them so I wanted
1:04:23
to create images that would evoke that feeling in others and it's really interesting the emotional responses I
1:04:29
will get from people I've had people cry in my booth and then I'm crying with them and it can be challenging but
1:04:37
ultimately it's the most rewarding because I want my work to make people feel something even if they see the
1:04:43
images and say that's a go scary I think any reaction is a good reaction but I
1:04:49
also appreciate the interactions where people are really connecting to the work and at deeper level yeah I think a lot
1:04:56
of people's instinct when somebody passes away is to not bring them up ever
1:05:01
and I think that's um my wife has kind of taught me the opposite of that and and she's like no somebody passes away I
1:05:08
want to talk about them I want to celebrate them and I'm kind of like my
1:05:13
my family always was I mean I I come from a really small family had five
1:05:19
cousins and one of them died of testicular cancer really young
1:05:24
and I mean we were I was in I was in high school but thank you and they didn't my parents didn't tell my sister
1:05:30
like that's the kind of family that you know so we're getting together at the holidays and she was like well is Tommy
1:05:37
coming over and we're like I just kind of looked at her like you know Tommy's
1:05:43
dead like Tommy oh my gosh no Tommy is not so yeah it's it's some people's
1:05:49
Instinct very you know steers towards the like don't talk
1:05:55
whereas I think it's a lot healthier to to get into get I think I was probably more inclined to not talk about things
1:06:01
maybe not to your H family's extent nobody's to my family's level
1:06:07
yeah but I think that yeah I didn't really like talking about it and that was more of a defense mechanism because
1:06:14
it was weird sometimes I could talk about it and be completely fine and then sometimes at the drop of a hat I would
1:06:20
just be balling crying and and I didn't want to be doing that in public at that
1:06:25
time and so working through this has allowed me to see the Silver Lining and
1:06:32
and to get through it and be able to talk about those more challenging topics in a positive way yeah that's amazing
1:06:39
and you've got to have pretty meaningful memorable sales like because you have to have these interactions with people that
1:06:44
are so deeply personal well whenever we were in Park City I sold to a customer
1:06:50
and it was the funniest interaction because I met him and I remember his sister-in-law who he was with and she
1:06:58
came back the next day and she was like he's still thinking about getting it and I said oh okay is his name Tom and she
1:07:04
said what no is someone else thinking about getting it and I was like oh um
1:07:10
yeah I'm sorry I I must have mixed things up from the night before and so this woman was a saint she got on the
1:07:17
phone called him and made him pay over the phone so oh my God hilarious but
1:07:25
when we went to deliver it I told Nick I was like I really am not quite sure who these people are because I obviously was
1:07:32
interweaving my memories and so we get there and I did not remember him but uh
1:07:38
we stayed and we had the most wonderful conversation so he told me he really loved the image because he grew up in
1:07:45
Idaho on a farm and it was one my cowboy images and that the image just really
1:07:50
reminded him of his father and then his wife grew up on a Farm in Texas and the image really reminded her of her father
1:07:58
and I said well that's amazing because this is a photo of my father so it full
1:08:04
circle and it was a great experience to have yeah yeah that is really incredible
1:08:10
I love um I feel like I feel a little jaded now I've been doing this body of
1:08:16
work now for like 10 or 12 years and I am a little jaded whereas the first year
1:08:21
of this body of work I still remember every single customer that I sold to I remember those personal interactions and
1:08:28
now they're few and far between I had one this past weekend at Plaza i' had done a Doc Holiday piece so it's a
1:08:34
portrait of Doc Holiday on this map that's been in my family for Generations the native territories of the West so
1:08:42
those Maps were created to control the people that lived there so it's kind of a mix between the dark history in the
1:08:48
background and the you know what we love about the west and kind of our privilege of what we can then enjoy about the West
1:08:55
with these Legends so real history versus The Tall Tales and lies versus
1:09:00
storytelling and things like that so that's that's the Genesis behind that series and so i' done this piece and and
1:09:07
I'm kind of down to the last bit of them but I had Doc Holiday and the quote is there is no normal there is just life
1:09:14
and this couple came in and the guy's like holy [ __ ] there it is and I'm like well what's going on and he was like
1:09:21
yeah he just takes his credit card out and he's like that's the piece I want that didn't ask anything about it like
1:09:28
just wrap it up and so his wife is like well it comes with a story but I don't I don't want to bore you and I'm like you
1:09:33
know this is this is what I do I want to hear stories and it was like it ended up being like honestly the most meaningful
1:09:39
sale I've ever had in my entire career so he lost his mom when he was really little uh his father finds this woman
1:09:47
ends up being you know the the second love of his life and soulmate uh they're
1:09:52
going to get married later in the year his son who was in there buying the piece and his wife are there they're
1:09:58
getting married they're engaged the wedding is the following week his dad's fiance dies in a car crash two days
1:10:06
before the wedding and they want to cancel the wedding right they're like there's no [ __ ] way we can't do this
1:10:13
and his dad's like nope we're going to do it uh we need Joy uh it's too serious and so he gets up in front of this
1:10:20
family and his father gives this toast and he gives this long toast about why they're they're holding this wedding and
1:10:26
I'm going to I'm going to cry but sorry uh his his dad gets up and he ends the
1:10:31
the thing he's like as you know my hero has always been Doc Holiday and as Doc Holiday said there is no normal there is just life and so his father passed away
1:10:40
the day before Plaza started oh my gosh and they they went to the show they're
1:10:45
like I want to get something Western kind of to honor him yeah you know to honor my dad and it's like he's so
1:10:53
that's why they they walk in the booth and they're like oh there it is yeah take it take it home I'm like I'm like
1:11:00
God it's a good thing you just put your credit card out because I probably just given it to you just take it you know if
1:11:05
he hadn't had any money like oh God I just can't so I mean we're all crying I mean it's but it's that kind of personal
1:11:11
thing like that's why we do it and Plaza wasn't a very good show for me this year it just kind of sucked I would done
1:11:17
heard that you know but I wouldn't have done I wouldn't not I if you'd have told me like my monetary value of the show
1:11:25
and like what I would have done like I had to do it right I mean that's why we're there that's so important yeah
1:11:31
that is worth way more than any financial gain you can have and I think
1:11:36
that's what motivates us to keep doing this ultimately is not the money because
1:11:42
of course that's nice but it's those relationships that you cultivate with people and that you're helping give
1:11:48
people something that's going to be a daily reminder of that interaction that they had at their wedding or just that
1:11:53
whole situ situation you know they'll look at that and they'll think really happy things about that horrible time in
1:11:58
their life and that's a pretty incredible thing to be able to help somebody to do it is well that's another
1:12:04
thing that I really love about like Pages work you know being entirely
1:12:09
originals and you know other people that really focus on Originals is because of that you know that that kind of
1:12:16
experience that you have remains between you and them as opposed to like if you have you know a thousand
1:12:24
prints of said piece it kind of dilutes that like you know that experience that you have kind of passing along the
1:12:31
artwork I get to to see right you know pig have with you know the bigger pieces that she sells you know to to those
1:12:38
customers right yeah it's true it's true it's like that that kind of deep personal storytelling that um we try to
1:12:45
achieve and sometimes like the thing it's so funny because I was uh somebody had asked me about those portraits and I
1:12:52
was like they're too specific you know Aros need non-specific work I need the very right person to buy it I need to
1:13:00
make that money and it's like well if I didn't have that super specific storytelling then that guy wouldn't had
1:13:06
that piece or he would have you know I don't know we wouldn't have made that connection so it's important to remember
1:13:11
right um yeah so we talked a little bit about family a little bit um Mick what's
1:13:16
your family like I mean what what uh I want to hear a little background on on I've heard some funny stories before but
1:13:22
what's what's your family like and you guys are to me you're an incredible couple and you're you're like the
1:13:28
perfect yin and yang and just supporting each other and and um like Mick I was joking again on
1:13:35
the kind of the Preamble like when Paige won Best in Show and all out Best in Show too and they'd never given away a
1:13:42
full Park City Best in Show and that that went to Paige this year and uh which didn't have your name on it so
1:13:49
Mick just took it and hung it in his yeah well that's what I told uh Tara when she got shoted at uh when she had
1:13:55
an award at a Cherry Creek CU I went up there there and I said like it breaks my
1:14:00
heart that you got up in front of 200 people and mispronounced Mick witcom accidentally said Paige witcom got an
1:14:07
award it was it was terrible it's just so deserved I mean you're hitting this sweet spot in your work and it's it's uh
1:14:15
yeah it's incredible but I love the two of you guys together but um Let me let me hear you know we'll get in the
1:14:20
Wayback machine and hear a little bit about your background before we we kind of I like to hit that too so it's just kind of fun well you have um you met PA
1:14:27
my younger brother your younger brother yeah and I am certainly the the least
1:14:32
wild of the the Wht men so I don't know that that's
1:14:40
truebody just called [ __ ] yeah but I don't know we uh my
1:14:46
uh my older brother he's a year older than so we kind of had like you know our upbringing together and uh and he went
1:14:53
to the the same school that I did uh for college we lived together in college and all that kind of stuff so we had our
1:14:58
thing and then my younger brother and sister are 10 and 11 years younger than
1:15:04
me so it was it was nice because I got you know to you know I kind of had a different role in their life than I had
1:15:10
with my relationship with Jake but I got to you know see everything from kind of a different perspective there so I think
1:15:18
that you know things are probably getting getting better with age Chelsea and find that they get in far less
1:15:24
trouble Than Jake and I did in our youth how old are they what's the difference uh Chelsea's 25 and Colin's 24
1:15:31
now oh wow yeah head sweet spot right Chelsea uh she uh she is uh crisis
1:15:40
response something or another she she she goes out on those mental health calls and prevents them from escalating
1:15:46
so she's you know out doing really good things saving the world Colin has a career in finance so he's doing really
1:15:52
bad things but making a of money at it he's well financed anyway at least he
1:15:59
can do whatever he likes yeah but Colin will still come and which is probably you know how you've seen him and stuff
1:16:04
but he'll still come and help us set up the shows and and you know hang out whatever get on the uh the
1:16:23
computer College I would never I'd never in the singles World I'd be on the wrong
1:16:29
app and I'd be uh you know getting people with foot things and I don't know it just would never work I'd be yeah
1:16:37
completely lost as a single man yeah I'm that's why he's glad we're together
1:16:42
because he couldn't navigate single life oh I'm a terrible cook too God I'll kill
1:16:49
him I'll do it there's a good thing he's in he's recording in the other room but there
1:16:55
aren't be doors so our house that we live in now is a originally it was a
1:17:01
boarding house and so it's technically a five bedroom home but the rooms are very
1:17:07
tiny and so we um made it into a one bedroom home which was brilliant um yeah
1:17:14
so anyways this is technically always good for resale right uh this is
1:17:19
technically one bedroom and then the upstairs room where Nick is is technically two bedrooms and we opened
1:17:25
up that wall but we got rid of all the doors up here except for the bathroom and the closets because I guess that's
1:17:32
what we do makes sense right right yeah no it's that's very cool it's like uh
1:17:37
old boarding house I mean there talk about the history of that too you know I mean your both of your work kind of fits right into the that that's a that's a
1:17:44
pretty amazing place to well it's nice because we both work in historic themes
1:17:50
but and so we like to work with each other and help each other but there's never any competing overlap I think and
1:17:57
honestly when we first started doing both of our work at shows we thought that mix customers would love my work
1:18:05
and my customers would love mix work and we have found it as the complete opposite if somebody mix work they do
1:18:12
not like my work and vice versa it's very interesting we had a couple crossover but not many right I that's
1:18:19
really wild we do have yeah Susie and I have a couple of crossovers but it's interesting to see the couples that both
1:18:25
do glass where I can see that could be really competitive in trying to get into
1:18:30
shows too you kind of be like somebody somebody down the hall got into the show
1:18:36
but I didn't yeah we've had a few of those conversations right yeah well do you guys do does that affect you if one
1:18:42
person gets in and the other person doesn't that you don't want to go or do you just support each other no it doesn't I mean Mick definitely does more
1:18:49
shows than I do because I stick to the originals only shows for the most part
1:18:54
and so that was already the organization of our circuit was that makes doing more
1:19:01
shows but I think I mean for the most part we've been very lucky to get into
1:19:06
the shows that we were hoping to get into at the same time so that doesn't always work out but for the most part it
1:19:13
has and and that works really well for us yeah I thought the the first show
1:19:18
that we had ever done to where it was just PA's work and not mine as well so like I've never been able to assist in
1:19:25
her selling process just because you know I'm always in my booth with or
1:19:30
setting up yeah um I've always been in my booth and so we were both doing JazzFest but I was doing the second
1:19:36
weekend and Paige was doing the first weekend so you know I I love you know
1:19:41
kind of engaging you know with my customers and kind of getting into these storylines in terms of the the the
1:19:46
objects that I build from and kind of the history of the objects and kind of tying it in with their interest and I
1:19:53
was stoked because I you know Paige has so much depth in all of her um images
1:19:59
and you know I thought I could kind of get into you know these stories of the characters involved in her images where
1:20:04
they were shot and all that other stuff I suck at selling P types my God was I
1:20:11
would be listening to him and I'd be behind him like waving my hands being like don't what are you doing that's
1:20:18
not don't say that oh man I would be midc conversation with some
1:20:23
that was you know kind enough to show an interest and I would just bail right in the middle of talking like I would
1:20:28
get three minutes in and I just realized it like it was so bad that I was just humiliated continuing forward and I
1:20:36
would just you know turn around and take off and and paig would have to step in and tell him what was actually happening
1:20:41
well I think what the problem was is that we all have these same lines that
1:20:47
we repeat over and over and over where we almost become robotic in communicating with people I have even
1:20:54
yeah repeated myself saying the same thing to someone they're like yeah you just told us that I'm like okay this
1:20:59
Show's really long give me a break yeah oh well I've I've said Hi how are you folks doing to the same person oh yeah
1:21:06
yeah yeah yeah you know hey how are you folks doing today it's great to see you
1:21:11
um they're like they kind of look at me funny I'm like just said that didn't I they're like yeah I do that all the time
1:21:17
when people are coming to coming back to pick up the piece that they bought like you know 11 minutes earlier
1:21:23
and I'm like guys let me know if I can answer any questions for you these are all blah like yeah we uh we just gave you
1:21:29
$1,000 12 minutes ago all right we're here to pick up our piece like yeah I
1:21:35
don't know that's fine I really appreciate that sale never don't ring a
1:21:41
bell thousand yeah Paige is talking about you know crying with her customers and these meaningful reaction I can't
1:21:47
even remember the ones that I'm wrapping packages for but I think at us the issue
1:21:53
was that Mick has never been with me in my booth so he doesn't know those onliners or the oversimplification of my
1:22:01
process that makes it more palatable for the everyday person that's walking by right and so Mick understands my process
1:22:07
like the chemical process but that's been part of my challenge in doing these shows was finding a way to communicate
1:22:15
what I do to people without over complicating it because most people aren't familiar with film let alone a
1:22:22
19th century method of Photography so it was just a learning experience for both
1:22:29
of us to be together with my work and you know totally also I mean it's
1:22:35
there's something about what we do for a living you have to learn to read people and you have to learn to read that glaze over when you've told too much right and
1:22:42
you're like oh and it's funny to certain people you be like wow you've already glazed over that's you know I haven't
1:22:49
even I you know I mean then you just kind of Fade Out and you can just say whatever and they kind of like say you
1:22:54
just do the thing I'm like yep yeah I can tell you don't you don't care so I
1:23:00
just I'll wait for you to to respond no big deal well I go so like I I forget to pay attention to other people's emotions
1:23:07
in a conversation um because I'm mostly concentrated on just myself and uh I
1:23:14
mean the number of page gives me [ __ ] about this all the time is like the
1:23:19
number of people that have committed to buy something and they give me the credit card I'll be like take your money
1:23:24
run the card well yeah they'll say I want to buy this one because it's blue and I like you know what that is a an
1:23:31
1893 kter shock therapy device and you're never going to believe this but ker was the first North American sold
1:23:39
and like just yeah yeah it'll be like another 23 minutes of me talking about nonsense and
1:23:46
then all the sudden like their their tables up at Chipotle and uh they just sneak right on out of there like I have
1:23:52
lost more money attempting to sell things that they wanted to buy than if I
1:23:57
would hilarious have just you know taken what was given to me it's definitely an
1:24:03
art see Paige he doesn't just uh do that with your booth he's doing it with himself yeah that's just who he is we
1:24:09
gota love it yeah I'm incapable of selling either of our artwork right just close it learn to say yes Mick just say
1:24:16
yes take it yeah but you manage you know we we all kind of I feel like you guys
1:24:23
do a really good job we've talked about this on the show with other folks and um you do a really good job of of looking
1:24:28
like you're work too like people want to buy a piece of you you know they want to
1:24:33
buy a piece of of you guys and kind of take it home because it's like well you look like your work and you're selling your work and you're you know amicable
1:24:40
you know you guys are both pretty you know this is Radio we can say that the wickhams are pretty folks so but does
1:24:47
that ever get into a situation where you got to walk into the other person's boooth and be like all right out just get the hell out of you just chase them
1:24:54
off I don't no no usually it's my personality that drives them off so if
1:24:59
there was something to being pretty and that's that doesn't make up for the things that come out of my mouth and um
1:25:06
Paige is a one of my favorite pastimes is making men who hit on me feel very
1:25:13
uncomfortable so yeah that's a scale that she's not yeah Paige is not
1:25:19
subtle how do you do it a lot of times if people say something that's offensive I will just look at them and not say
1:25:25
anything and just keep looking at them and then people will just keep talking and I won't respond I won't say anything
1:25:30
I just stand there and then eventually what usually happens is somebody will say something nice and then be like okay
1:25:37
well thanks and then leave so I just literally don't say a word oh I got a
1:25:43
good story for you so we did have this come up one time and this was uh it was a while before Co but we were doing Ian
1:25:51
Arbor which is usually a gem in terms of you know really conversations and uh and
1:25:58
so we're doing Ann Arbor and uh old Betty Jagger was uh was doing the show
1:26:04
as well and so we had it was an artist it wasn't a patron at the show and I
1:26:10
certainly will not say who the artist was but he was he had said a couple things to page that were very dismissive
1:26:19
and that was when she was helping me with my work not knowing that paigee is
1:26:24
very obviously the good artist of marriage
1:26:29
so no I mean but you're both accomplished she's an accomplished artist you can yeah you're both so you
1:26:34
don't talk [ __ ] about Paige in like the context of art shows because she's been very widely celebrated with her work and
1:26:42
so we go over and we're just hanging out talking to to like you do and you know we're talking [ __ ] about um you know
1:26:50
Silly experiences at the show I told her everything that happened and Betty said
1:26:56
let me go over there and I said no she said I want to meet this man well Mick
1:27:01
you weren't with me at this point in time and this is how I got myself in trouble because she said let me go over
1:27:07
there and I said no and she goes well I want to say hi to Mick and I said oh okay duh and so we go over there and
1:27:16
under the she got me under the false that she strictly wanted to speak with
1:27:21
and she a beine to this man and she asked him if he said all the things that
1:27:27
I told her he said and he said well yes he called Pig a worker monkey she didn't appreciate that well and that was on top
1:27:36
of a bunch of other just extremely sexist gross things anyway so she asked
1:27:41
him if he said all those things and he talked to it and I don't remember all that she said to him but Betty is very
1:27:47
good at explaining to people why they shouldn't have those behaviors and at
1:27:53
the end of it she told him that if he didn't behave himself she was going to bend him over her knee and SP
1:27:59
yeah and this this man was like 65 and you know Betty tell some they gonna
1:28:06
spank him it wasn't even as courteous as that she said I will bend you over my
1:28:11
knee and I will spank your ass it's like if you're just gonna just put a little icing on the cake so then we had to
1:28:18
finish that was at breakdown and we had to finish breaking down and I was like oh my god dude cuz I'd like make contact
1:28:24
with him and I just didn't want to deal with him and after he was packed up he got in his car and he came over and I
1:28:31
was like oh great here we go he's gonna say something and you know what he did he said here it comes you know your
1:28:37
friend made a lot of really good points and I'm I'm sorry that I said those things to you I wasn't meaning to be
1:28:43
that rude and I said oh well thank you apology accepted and then he left yeah
1:28:49
super nice so I know always her friends back yeah boom score another one for
1:28:55
Betty yeah absolutely does if you she's in your corner man there's no more loyal
1:29:01
friend I love her yeah sure that's incredible man I love ending it on a story does that feel good to you guys
1:29:06
Mick you good you feel I feel great man I uh I poured myself a a couple ounces
1:29:12
of my favorite bourbon and sat down to talk about Sasquatches with my boy go um
1:29:18
thanks for letting us push everything back mck finally went to the doctor and uh the good news is he does not
1:29:24
think Mick needs surgery so oh thank God so muscles or as opposed to spine double
1:29:30
herniated disc ah but that's that's good he's he did some uh like some witch
1:29:37
doctor Wiccan Earth worshipper stuff my back did all of thoseo in your ear and
1:29:44
yeah I I I've got no love for chiropractors I don't trust them okay um
1:29:50
but you know at a certain point like my my butt was pointing left and my
1:29:55
shoulder was down and somebody had to straighten me out and I think he's feel good successful in doing it I don't feel
1:30:02
good but I I'm straighter looking I think people are getting kind of concerned for the shape of my body he
1:30:08
looked like the Prett H man I hate that take care of yourself uh get some health
1:30:14
you know yeah I do so many stupid things on a regular basis it's just absolutely
1:30:20
remarkable yeah not you know you got to you got to be in it for the long haul right you just take yeah the fact that
1:30:26
I've survived to The Ripe age of 28 is pretty astounding oh my God
1:30:33
okay more tall tals all right you guys thank you so much for doing with this
1:30:39
with me I've been wanting to have you on for a while this is awesome thank you so much love you guys thank you yeah bye
1:30:46
well see you guys all right see you bro what a great talk you guys had will thanks so much for sitting down with
1:30:51
that and sharing their story out of how it feels to just hang out and talk with
1:30:56
those guys minus the um minus the beers and or maybe you know maybe there were beers I don't know I'm not telling it's
1:31:03
a it's a video it's not a video it's a what are you what do you say just a podcast no one's writing us up so do
1:31:09
what we want no we're not cops we're not cops so yeah it it's it's always great to be able to talk to those guys and it
1:31:16
just it just feels like just a slice out of a a friendship of conversation it's nice to be able to ask them questions as
1:31:22
opposed to just hanging out and telling dumb stories which is what it typically is with with those friends cool well uh
1:31:29
By the time this airs we will be another year older this is our birthday weekend coming up here as we record I'm not
1:31:35
taking one this year I heard you said you were going to take one I'm not going to take one well the family's got some
1:31:40
stuff planned so I I think whether I like it or not I'm GNA have a birthday this weekend okay yeah and what do you
1:31:46
guys got going on I got my shingles vaccine that's what I had going on you turn 50 we to celebrate that's awesome
1:31:51
you get your shingles vaccine which just is a good reminder of how old you are yeah you get your a ARP card too to go
1:31:58
with it there buddy is it 50 or is it 55 I don't pay attention to that stuff I don't know go in the garbage yeah get
1:32:05
your discounts you take them you can have mine too but yeah how are you guys celebrating in any way special we're
1:32:12
getting together with with the fam and there have been some different discussions you know when you get to a
1:32:17
certain age when the kids you know kind of take over the whole planning of things and you just get to show up so
1:32:23
that's kind of a fun feeling right there yeah oh that is nice that is nice I'm going to go to a cross country meet and
1:32:29
then we're going to go to brunch and then no I don't know I don't really there's not a big uh well we'll see yeah
1:32:35
I'm not planning anything but we'll see what my wife has planned and she always treats me very well so it's she does
1:32:42
really nice things I mean me personally I'm like it's 53 I don't really need a birthday yeah yeah it's fine but she'll
1:32:48
she'll do something special I'm sure but well for those listeners out there who are new to the podcast and don't know what we're talking about will and I have
1:32:55
birthdays one day apart literally his his Saturday the 30th of September and I'm October 1st so when we found out
1:33:02
that our birthdays were that close together it was like kind of weird it's especially since we're so
1:33:08
similar well our road mom said she knew all along she always called us brothers
1:33:13
and I guess it's true God damn godam crazy talking about old Beth radkey we got to get we got to get her on give her
1:33:20
something to look forward to at some point yeah definitely talk talk to a retired artist on the other side of the
1:33:26
the um the scales there she just said a bad word she hates that word retired is not in her vernacular no she's not
1:33:33
retired good I'm glad I said it then say it louder say it loud and proud yeah she's retired she's got her feet up
1:33:40
bringing Steve beas folks I had a good time talking to y'all but it's time to get back to work I hope you have good
1:33:47
luck in the um getting ramped up on on social media and and getting worked up
1:33:53
this is always the time of year when shows start to wne a little bit and everybody seems to start getting really
1:33:59
nasty all right they're itching for a fight oh yeah and anything they can
1:34:04
fight about so um check yourself get back in the studio you find yourself uh
1:34:09
getting too worked up about it it means you're looking at it too much so absolutely that's the sign that's right
1:34:14
we'll see you in a couple weeks folks thanks so much all right take care this podcast is brought to you by the
1:34:20
National Association of inde dependent artists the website is na artists.org
1:34:25
also sponsored by zapplication that's zapplication.org and while you're at it
1:34:31
find us on social media and engage in these conversations be sure to subscribe to this podcast to be notified when we
1:34:38
release new episodes oh and if you like the show we'd love it if you would give us your five-star rating and offer up
1:34:44
your most creative review on your podcast streaming service see you next [Music]
1:34:50
time



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