The Independent Artist Podcast

Hard Won Empathy/ Anthony Hansen

Douglas Sigwarth/ Will Armstrong/ Anthony Hansen Season 2 Episode 20

Working Artists! You are not alone!!  Anthony Hansen https://www.anthonyhansen.com/ describes his journey through chronic pain and how empathy from others helped him navigate through the struggle.

Visual artists Douglas Sigwarth https://www.sigwarthglass.com/ and Will Armstrong http://www.willarmstrongart.com/ co-host and discuss topics affecting working artists. Each episode is a deep dive into a conversation with a guest artist who shares their unique experiences as a professional independent artist.  This week's preamble topics include artists as jurors, the rebirth of Art in the High Desert, and taking a pause in our art practice for health reasons.


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Music  "Walking" by Oliver Lear
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[Music] foreign
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artist podcast sponsored by the National Association of Independent Artists also
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sponsored by zapplication I'm will Armstrong and I'm a mixed media artist I'm Douglas sigworth class blower join
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our conversations with professional working artists all right welcome back to the show
0:31
everyone we are battling some technical difficulties so we're in a very good mood right now look let's be honest
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Douglas you're battling me who's battling technical difficulties and I take full responsibility for that that's
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totally fine oh that's okay but anyway so how has your week been how's everything been going since I saw you
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last lovely I actually had a little bit of a vacation we went up to Jackson Hole Saw some Fall Foliage stayed in an
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incredible like old school Hotel saw some killer music oh yeah what'd you see
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you know I mentioned this last week we actually are big Father John Misty fans and we saw him do a solo performance
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just a little one on 250 kind of Courtyard performance him and a guitar
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and his uh pianist accompanist you saw him again did you just see him in uh in
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Minnesota yeah I mean you know it shows every two weeks I can see I can see my favorites every couple weeks all right
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yes they're a groupie you know I wouldn't say I'm a groupie but we try try to see him anytime we get the chance
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and this was kind of a celebration of our anniversary So Good Times quiet at times good times how
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about yourself what's going on just getting everything off the list because next on my agenda is this surgery so
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we've been talking about this for like a year it seems like yeah it's um it must
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be sweeps week ladies and gentlemen we're getting ready to go under the knife here he's the independent artist I've just had this running list going of
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stuff I need to get done I mean I've had the luxury not like you where you know you tore your Achilles it's like okay
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the world stops and you have to go under the knife and you have to just deal with it right I'm trying to plan being off my
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foot for three months all the work we want to have made for projects we're in the middle of household projects to be
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honest I think I'd rather have it my way I think I'd rather have the rug jerked out from underneath me than to have to
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try to plan every little thing it's like well can I reach the remote how many books am I going to read what do I have
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downloaded do I have this what am I going to piss in I mean I thought that whole that thing too I almost wish I'm
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like I keep finding more stuff that I'm like well then I have to have this done before I can't walk you know absolutely
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yeah it's a nightmare to be honest I'm not sure how you're doing it but a lot of empathy for you and and that kind of
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goes towards the topic of my conversation with Anthony this week and we'll get to that in a little bit but um
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man we both have a lot of empathy for you as to a lot of our our listeners not all of them there's a couple jerks out
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there hi there okay yeah just a couple I'm not naming names no I don't know that there are I just assume well I I
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have not not blown glass for three months steady in 30 years I mean it's
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it's such a bizarre feeling to think of everything that's gonna you know be involved in that sure Oh no you're
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talking about three months of recovery is that uh zero to fully recovered are
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we talking three months to the point where you can get out of a wheelchair or what what are you looking at that's
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three months till I can start putting weight on my foot you are seated for three months you're in a bed yes and I
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believe if I'm lucky maybe a couple weeks before that three months I can start in a walking boot then I'll be in
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a walking boot for a while so yeah there's no glass blowing there's no art shows there's there's none of that while
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I recover from this and while you're recovering and I'm sorry to be interviewing you on this topic but I
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mean you can't put any weight for three months three months is is not when
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you're going to be back you're gonna I mean this is what are we talking about six months to a year before you're doing shows again or what it's hard to say
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because I technically need this done on both feet so I can't do both at the same time Renee is not strong enough to carry
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me to the cans so um I'm gonna have to do one at a time and hopefully after the three months is
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up and I can start walking in a boot I'm gonna see just how much work I can start
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making then and frankly as any self-employed artist look at the bank
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account and find out what I can actually do if I if it makes sense to keep you know go on to the next foot or if I need
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to get back to work and make some money oh brutal well our empathy is completely out to you and
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however you need a hand my friend we'll be there to help Renee or or whatever you need we'll we'll figure it out right
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yeah I hope so I hope it well I will say this so one thing I've talked about on the show is one of the things we're
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planning is when we shut down the studio we have to repair our furnace this this
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glass blowing furnace is 17 years old so it's not insulating as well as it did
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back in the beginning so the elements are on working way hotter they're circuit breakers trip from time to time
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so I need to reconstruct the whole furnace and rebuild it
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you're not going to be doing that who's doing that well I I put out on social media the the happy day when all my
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furnace parts arrived all 2 200 pounds of them on a big semi truck and a lot of good friends in the area
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said hey you need a hand I'll be there so I think I have a crew that's going to help us next week so I can get the
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surgery taken care of and get the furnace torn apart and rebuilt before I go under the knife good Lord man
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um well good luck this is we're not starting out particularly lightly but it's the matter at hand no right that's
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what we're that's that's what we get to this is uh this is the reality of what
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it's like working for ourselves and yeah working in a business that is a fine
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craft business that's so physical I think I took that aspect of it for granted when you're 25 years old and you
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start working in glass blowing it's just so freaking fun and cool and and heavy and I've always been somebody who like
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to be active and and to do physical fitness and all that kind of stuff so it's a perfect thing for me and my my
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life but when the body starts to break down a bit it's experience
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yeah it is scary well whatever we can do to lend a hand and uh
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I I now I'm now I'm figuring out why we why we interviewed so many uh good Wisconsin artists and uh midwesterners
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let's rally the forces and get you taken care of right yeah but I gotta say this
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talk that you had with Anthony today where he talks about the stuff he went through so much of his talk that you
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guys had hit me in a very personal Place yeah I hear you it was uh there were
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definitely some questions that I asked him kind of thinking about you and what you're going through as well and uh he's
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such an honest and forthcoming guy and uh really I kind of felt like I needed
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that talk to be honest with like getting my own kind of groove back in with a
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podcast with a show and with interviewing and getting excited about the whole project really so it was good
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for me to talk to him as well it's been uh this has been more of a kind of a
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serious talk that you and I have had the kind of Preamble is is normally a little
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more yucky it up a little bit and get our yuck yucks time but um yeah it's it's important to talk
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about all of these different things I think about last week's talk with Lisa Christine and one of the things that she
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said that really resonated was the thing she wants to do in her work is she wants
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her work to take somebody out of their head and into their heart and I really
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felt like this week's talk with Anthony it's all about heart it's just yeah it's
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really cool nice but before we get into his talk I guess we got a few art show topics we could probably get yeah so one
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thing that has a kind of resurfaced is that whole topic of having art show
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artists on juries you know oh man we are going to go serious the whole way through right we are we are what do you
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think about that some people are complaining they say it's it's nepotism no I I listen yeah people are not
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complaining I said person or two are complaining they have a loud soapbox that they're standing on but the idea of
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like this is what we do for a living right sure we do this thing and a couple
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of people have broached topics should we have art show artists on because like you just said it's is it nepotism are
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people scratching you know I scratch your back you scratch mine no uh I will
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wholeheartedly stand up and say no you have to have people in our industry on
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the juries because otherwise they don't know what they're looking at if you are
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you know if you have an academic doesn't know what it's like being in the trenches and what we're making you know
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or how we're doing right and they don't know you know Douglas the subject has
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kind of come up but I feel like it's a couple of loud people there's a lot of sour grapes in this
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business like any other business they think if they're not getting into shows it's this person's fault it's that
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person's fault and really you just look at yourself at the end of the day the only common denominator and I've talked
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about this a lot is you sure you know if I'm not getting into shows it's not because I'm an which I may be to
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some people it's because my work maybe doesn't fit what their idea is for a certain show I mean you and I have both
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both worked really hard to get to where we are where we can honestly expect to
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put together a season you know you can you can Cobble together a season that is of quality shows and where you want to
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be I feel lucky enough to be where I want to be a lot of the times but if I'm
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not it's not because this juror doesn't like me or this isn't happening or it's
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nepotism it's because I didn't fill their Vision you know I I feel like
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art show artists are it's not nepotistic as much as it is a family where you all
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kind of recognize the quality that's within right it's about the work and it's about who's yeah who's being chosen
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as an artist juror it comes down to Integrity I believe the people who are
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selecting these members to represent the jury they're putting thought into who
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can be impartial who can make good decisions who can make because at the
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end of the day when the show is juried and they get to say these are our 150 or
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200 artists then you look at the jury and who selected them and there is a
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part of pride of who you're selecting that you are truly picking the cream of the crop and and it's a competition
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point I mean if I you and I have both juried shows and when I look at it at the end of the day it's like yeah maybe
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they cut me off in traffic on the way into the show but their work is a plus plus it's like the Integrity has to be
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there we've talked to a lot of different artists on the show whether it's uh
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Cliff or David berstrom or uh Deb Adelson people that have been on juries before and and that you trust to be on
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juries that their integrity like you just said that's that's the perfect Point their integrity is is as much on
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the line as you know you don't want to put together a show that that looks like it's full of hacks okay
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well well the next thing I wanted to say um to say about that is we've already
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established on episodes past that there should just be a jeweler on every single jury because for one there's so many
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Jewelers out there and right we need a jeweler who can say this work in the
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components are imported and just put together this this work is original this
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work is not you know what I mean you really need a jeweler yeah you're standing up on my soapbox the this is
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this is our Our Gospel here is the way I've kind of learned through uh being married to a jeweler as well as being
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around all this you know look at the percentage of Jewelry in your show if you have a jeweler on there you know
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what a lot of times you can weed through some of the stuff and they can be like hey that's not that's digital that's
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cleaned up uh their their welds are this type of weld this is hand fabricated versus casting all of that kind of thing
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so none of us are experienced instant every medium we maybe can recognize
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designs that are strong or not strong but the good thing about a varied jury is there's conversation you can say hey
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what do you think about this hey can you I don't know much about how this is done can you tell me this or that and it's
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it's a it's a good part of the process it's an important part of the process yeah I I truly think it is so here's a
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question how do you feel about peer juries you know on site when you've got people in your medium who come by and
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score you for getting reinvited back in again um it's a good question I know of a
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couple of shows that do that I don't mind it a lot of times those folks will
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get their feelings heard if I don't immediately give them all of their attention I've I've definitely been
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talking to clients when the juror like I don't really care whether or not to get a prize a prize is nice but I don't care
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but I really care whether I get into a show again well I'm talking about territories who are that's well that's
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what I mean and it's like I like if somebody's coming around to to hand out Dole out prizes right and I'm sitting
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there talking to a client that I know I'm getting ready to sell a five thousand dollar piece of artwork to I'm not going to put the Taps on my boots
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and and start and do your show dance for them let me show you what this is let me tell
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you what oh and I I'm not gonna do it but it it with the peer jury I feel like
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a lot of times those guys get their their nose bent out of shape if you don't immediately do it and start doing
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the little the little dance so I don't love it yeah I really don't love it yeah
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I mean it's kind of the same idea behind having artists on the drawing into the
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show I think it's a good idea but I don't necessarily love it it is that
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kind of that you could jury me from your remote place where I don't have to to see your reaction but I don't
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necessarily well yeah also it takes the artist if they're at the show I was talking to a good friend who it was
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jurying Plaza and they were coming around and and and trying to do their best job at the same time they were
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having to be at the show and jury the show as well you know what I mean like jury for prize money and it's like well
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you're not actually you're not selling your work and I look at this thing very much as a business and how much I expect
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to get paid per hour at an art show and they're not getting paid anything because volunteers aren't selling their
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work as hard as they're trying they do a great job with a volunteer court but they're not doing any actual selling
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they don't know how to sell your work and they shouldn't yeah yeah that's that's part of the deal with
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being in person at a show like that and and being upfront and personal selling our work it you've got the we have this
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equal split between the creative and the business and it's like we're all business right now this isn't about you
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know making some juror feel good this is all about making the sales in the moment and we make those choices too you know
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sometimes we are on um you know the people will come by and I'll be in the middle of a sale and somebody will come
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by you get like the pre uh the pre-tickle where they're like the Jersey I just wanted to let you know straighten
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everything don't give me jury foreplay I don't want to I don't want it you know I don't need foreplay with it just just
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let's just get right to it let's get to get to it and I just you know come in here and if you wanna if the juror wants
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to talk to me they're gonna talk to me and if they we were like uh it's a large scale illustration and I don't like it
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I'm like great okay F off hit the road I don't need you I'm I'm selling right
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right hey well new topic you brought up uh you mentioned David beerstrom being on uh jury I'm pretty excited about the
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fact that we've got another art show artist taking his hand as as art show director I'm not excited as much as I am
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relieved yeah uh there you go a great show and great hands so totally so David beerstrom is very close with the former
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directors of Art in the high desert and Carla Fox is going to lead him uh and
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help him however he can but he's he's doing it their new location lots of exciting things coming up and I really
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feel like this is in good we were just talking last week about the amount of shows that are going away so a heartfelt
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thank you for bringing one back so that's awesome hell yeah the bride's Like a Phoenix my friend um good luck to
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you and and seriously your whole Community has your back on this one yes well we talked about that this is
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Anthony Hanson week and it's also a take two on Anthony Hampton
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yeah yeah it is this was almost a take two Preamble we are having technical difficulties but it was these guys
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rallied and you gave it another go and it was an amazing heartfelt talk which I really love will it didn't feel like a
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podcast to me it just felt like sitting down and and I tried to set up some of the things that he and I have talked
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about in the past I've always admired the guy and I always felt a real Soul
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kind of connection when when we talk if that's not too cheesy but I don't care if it is it's just how I feel when I'm
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talking so he talks in this interview about how he doesn't do small talk he looks right in your eye and he says yeah
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he says the thing so let's shut our mouths up and let's hear what he has to say shall we love it let's do it Anthony
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Hansen on the independent artist podcast this episode of The Independent artist
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podcast is brought to you by zap the digital application service where artists and art festivals connect I see
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here there are some new features with the events list category through zap which will help us with looking up new
18:29
shows to fill a spot in our schedule you know I feel like I should have something to say but I wasn't really listening to
18:35
you because I'm looking at the events list right now and it's pretty cool okay so you dropped the menu down and there
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at the bottom go scrolling all the way about third thing down in the smaller print just says events list that's right
18:47
all of the shows appear here regardless of their application deadline you can
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use filtering and sorting to narrow down your search to find the right show that
18:57
fills your desired time frame or location I know a lot of people love that calendar I like seeing the list of
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events I like scrolling through and doom scrolling late at night it's like online dating they don't let you swipe left or
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right but you can figure out who you want to date coming up here I've got Anthony Hansen here on the
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podcast and let's just jump right into this thing I I feel like we have a present moment uh guest here on the show
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so let's just be in the present and and talk to our good friend Anthony Hansen metal artist coming all the way out of
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California uh how are you today sir I'm good yeah thanks for inviting me yeah to
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talk to you for sure thanks man absolutely and likewise and you have been on our radar as far as getting on
19:42
we actually tried to record earlier and had a couple of hiccups so I appreciate you being patient pick up is that what
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you call that my wife calls it having a big tantrum I think it bothered you more than it
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bothered me for sure yeah you know I tend to lead a life where I I kind of
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drive 100 miles an hour right up to the finish line and get out and think I can just handle whatever and you know the
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the technical difficulties were a little much to handle that week welcome to this world I feel like there's you know
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whether you're working on your updating your website or trying to upload a something for Instagram or whatever you
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just feel like oh my God this should not be that's hard right so it's this is not
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what I do I don't want to around with this I want to just you know yeah be human and make a connection or make
20:29
art I don't want to have to like try to figure out what's wrong with my microphone or something right or your
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brand new headphones I appreciate the purchase yeah for sure it's it's yeah I
20:40
had to drive to Los Angeles to get them but that's fine wow that's a that's a that's a drive so this better be worth
20:47
it is all like oh yeah I'm on my a game don't worry I gotcha sleep but uh have
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you been getting on man you uh your show season is has kind of wound to a close how have you how you been yeah it was a
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good show season you know with the pandemic like everybody you had kind of a forced opportunity to you know what
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what are we gonna do different since we don't have the options especially two years ago yeah we we squeaked through
21:13
with some commission work and some custom work and then and then this year did a few shows and it's great realizing
21:21
that that Community is still out there and we all still get to see each other and stuff it was definitely good to renew some of those connections for sure
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definitely you had kind kind of a I want to talk we'll get in the way back machine and kind of talk about some of
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your history too but I think it's sometimes more interesting too to talk about some of the that we've all gone through and some of the the the the
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hiccups that we've come you and I yours was a little bit different but um came out through the other side of covid and
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reached the kind of the starting line shows we're starting back up and and you
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and I both hit this weird thing where we had a health issue that kept us from getting back on the road it's like we
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made it all the way through covet and then we got hit by the with a big surprise you feel like talking about that uh yeah I mean you mean about about my
22:07
back yeah yeah and now your hip yeah that was that was that was actually before covid I I did some shows but yeah
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that was like 20 that was almost three and a half years ago now when that first started but yeah in the midst of it I
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spent you know six months using a walker oh my God it was really I just you know chronic pain
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I I had always felt like I wanted to be the guy who's like man Anthony no he's he's uh really dealing with some heavy
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stuff but smile on his face and right that is that is easier said than done when you're in the midst of like how am
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I gonna make it to the bathroom right now or how I'm Gonna Roll Over in bed you know it was really really
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discouraging and kind of a mystery too at the time did you you didn't really know what it was yeah I didn't I didn't
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know what what it was I you know I'm a cyclist I I probably have chronic work position for the last 15 years and I
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fell playing basketball with my youngest son middle school basketball game anyways it just got to the point where I
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couldn't even walk and it was you know it was months and and then years of of dealing with that pain and then slowly
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slowly things kind of like relaxing and okay getting to the point where I could
23:22
get back to work or I could get back to a show and ask a neighbor for some help send me my booth or whatever but it's
23:28
way way way better now I'm swimming real regular now oh good good you were a
23:33
surfer before are you able to Surf again yeah you can still get in the water yeah so it's it's way better I I don't take
23:40
any anti-inflammatories I haven't for a couple months uh every once in a while I'll feel a tinge of something but I'm
23:46
real religious with with doing my exercises and then my my wife and I we swim we swim in the ocean most evenings
23:53
for like 20 minutes so that cold water and the movement is really good for me yeah I mentioned you're in California
23:59
and you had to go to LA to get your headphones but where tell the folks where you're located uh we're in the
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Central Coast of California yeah right right in the middle between LA and San Francisco we're right in the middle
24:09
between Santa Barbara and Santa Cruz on on the coast nice so that's where you guys are swimming you've got a uh
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incredible wife who I've met um that's a big big kind of part of you and I'm sure she helped you you get through that and
24:22
but to kind of circle back and talk a little bit more about that that injury like what I experienced um and you and I
24:28
touched on this when I saw you on the road a little bit but I mean it does something to not just your I mean it
24:36
kind of does something to your manhood too you you feel like you're this this kind of viral strong human that can get
24:41
out there and exercise and do big strong hard things and all of a sudden uh you you're sitting on the couch or
24:49
you're using a walker I mean my 83 82 year old father-in-law has has knee
24:55
problems and and will not use a walker you know it's like it's just you know
25:00
it's it's tough man it was yeah I mean I I is it extreme or is it not I I totally
25:07
thought about taking my own life in the in the midst of you know just being completely broken and just if this is
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what the future is moving forward I is it in your is it worth it yeah I mean
25:21
it's like well we never go backpacking again will I never be able to get dressed standing up again intimacy with
25:27
your part you going to the bathroom everything was just you know so there was several times where I was at work
25:32
and I thought would you do something to end this and then I just thought you know what my my wife or my boys are
25:39
gonna come to the shop and find me I can do that yeah there's no way but I just
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you know it's a I feel like it's a totally natural human thing to think I I don't
25:51
know if I want to do this anymore it was it was really it was really hard it was lots of Tears my wife was great she just
25:57
kept saying hey babe we had to look at it in chunks of like six months if I looked at it day to day I was never
26:03
making an improvement but I was like well if you look back six months maybe um maybe I'm a little bit better and
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that's really what it's been it's it's I think this is coming up next march will be four years I think okay and it's just
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been very very slow and doing my exercises and paying attention to my
26:20
posture and it just slowly slowly slowly has gotten better but it was yeah it was discouraging that's incredible man I'm
26:27
so glad you are uh managing that and that you're not managing it as as a as
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an understanding that that's what you are going to live with forever but as something that you can kind of handle I
26:38
remember the new feeling for me was you know when I blew out my achilles and I'm I've got this cast on and I'm elevating
26:45
for all this time and what I found was a claustrophobia in my own body oh yeah
26:52
you know yeah you're trapped I was like I don't want to be in this body right now and the big thing you know you and I
27:00
are both lucky to have those kind of supportive Partners but the lucky thing that I found was that you know I had her
27:06
but she she was like okay you're gonna have your uh Physical Therapy but you're gonna have your mental therapy next time
27:12
something happens because we're in it for the long haul here and uh you were awful you know I was a I I just was a
27:19
couch sitting phone scrolling you know I just waited out the time because I knew
27:25
I could get through it that way but yeah deal with it a little bit differently yeah it's a it's it's as you know the
27:31
the physical toll really pushes on the mental part and it yeah if you're not careful it affects your relationships it
27:37
affects your outlook and that's not who you want to be I know and that's not how I want to be but man when you're in the
27:44
midst of it oh it is so so difficult yeah our good friend uh Douglas is
27:51
getting ready to go through that too and we're going to talk about that on kind of the Preamble and his surgery but he's
27:57
he's got his you know looking like a the light at the end of the tunnel is a
28:02
train here it comes he's got the surgery and and uh it's coming for him and he's
28:08
going to need some some support too but it just really makes you appreciate any
28:14
kind of support you've got and then it just gives you empathy for people who are facing that kind of thing with with
28:21
uh with you know a train oncoming train is is for sure the destination or or
28:28
there's no light at all I remember in the midst of it yeah you know people would say oh try this or do that or do
28:33
that and you just feel like you're walking around with a blindfold on I'm like trying to figure out
28:39
what's the right thing to do yeah nothing seems to work you know I I think
28:44
the best thing that I had from anybody was just empathy like man that's tough
28:50
you know sure having that as a parent with other parents whose kids have been
28:56
trying to figure stuff out or whatever it's just you know you don't want advice you just want somebody to say hey I know
29:01
that's so hard you know it's got to be so hard and that was often the best thing to hear yeah I yeah or I see you I
29:07
remember talking to a good buddy of mine who passed away he's an art show artist
29:13
that passed away from Lou Gehrig's Disease and I always made sure to be like it is good to see you as opposed to
29:19
like your typical hey how are you because it's like I'm terrible right now thank you for not saying how
29:26
are you yeah because you can see you know yeah in degrees but um yeah those
29:33
people that'll just hold space with you and which is uncomfortable right I care about you I know you Tori Achilles I
29:40
know you're frustrated is there some way that I can make a connection with you that I can hang in there knowing I can't
29:47
fix it knowing that I I love you and and and just hold that space with you in a
29:52
way that's human and and not be frustrated that I there's no there's nothing I can do I mean that's a really you know I think especially you know for
29:59
my wife Sandra and and Susan you know as partners that's a really tough place to be because they know it's going to be a
30:06
long time it's really difficult and there's very little you can do other than just empathizing absolutely and or
30:13
or get somebody to get some professional help I'm a proposal oh me too for sure
30:18
for sure for sure but you know you talk about the empathy and that's something that I wanted to bring up with you as far as uh like when I see you I feel
30:25
like there's all automatically it doesn't really matter the time but there's always I always feel like there's a connection and you're always
30:31
trying to get more of a you know I feel like you look a little bit deeper you know you're you're piercing a little bit
30:38
uh ours and it's a welcoming embracing piercing but it's also kind of a an
30:44
intensity but it's a I feel like there's a spirituality there whenever I get to see you what's your what's your
30:50
spirituality like as far as uh creation and and just your day-to-day oh that's
30:56
that's a deep question I mean I mean as far as like spirituality religion I was
31:02
raised super super conservative Seventh-day Adventist legalistic all the rules you know known for all this the
31:09
stuff you don't do yeah you know how do you hold any of that still or is it I don't I would say I'm I'm I I I mean I I
31:16
get it you know we have right we all have artist friends and stuff who are in the Mormon church or devout Catholic or
31:23
whatever um I don't have any problem holding space for those people I get it that's how I was raised but yeah I would say if
31:30
anything I'm agnostic you know I told my mom a couple months ago I'm all I'm all
31:35
for Mom they're being a heaven and God's gonna come again and whatever but I'm I'm not hanging my hat on that at all
31:41
you know yeah or like uh I look at all a lot of those stories where all of them really is just kind of Parables and how
31:47
it could be and they're all the same yeah I mean you know and Christianity is one of the youngest religions you know
31:54
so it's like I was raised though that the Bible is the truth and God's coming and you better not do anything on the
32:01
Sabbath so I had a lot of guilt and stuff to try to navigate after but yeah
32:06
I I I I feel like you know I feel like the biggest thing
32:11
we can do is and that I'm interested in doing is making connections and and loving each other you know I think if
32:18
you do that you're more Godly than a lot of people who claim to be gone yeah I mean that's there's your there's your
32:24
Jesus sure you know I mean not and I kind of was thinking spirituality more
32:29
as far as like uh how you see that non-religiously I don't know that I necessarily I definitely don't consider
32:35
myself a religious person you just you know you look at the teachings of of Christ and it's like how not to be an
32:42
is sure how you can how you can read that as a as a play-by-play but I'm thinking more like you know you're an
32:49
intense kind of guy but you're an easy going guy um yeah I feel like that's a
32:54
you know my wife has teased me hey babe just because he'll ask somebody about it doesn't mean everyone wants to talk
32:59
about it and I definitely have probably wandered into a few conversations that
33:05
are like oh I hope I didn't say too much but I I you know I want to know yeah and I want to be the friend that I want to
33:11
say how's your morning going and somebody says um it's really tough I would hope I'm I can be open enough to
33:18
have somebody say yeah I'm not having a good morning and that's one of the reasons I want to talk to you too like
33:24
it's um I remember even just set up because we we usually have a little pre thing where we're talking on the little
33:30
backstage before I hit the record button and it's like uh Susan and I were talking about this the other day where
33:36
you and I were in the the pre-show Preamble before the other recording that didn't work and you said well how's
33:43
Minnesota and I was like uh it's fine and you're like there's a little catch in your voice
33:49
you know and it's what I love about you is we don't end up talking about the
33:54
Niners yeah exactly or if you do you can talk about something a little deeper
34:00
within it I don't know it seems like there's there's always a question that you have that that takes the conversation a little deeper a little
34:06
more interesting so yeah I I'm interested I I want to know I feel like sometimes you know my wife and I have
34:13
talked about that I feel sensitive maybe ironically so to to asking things of
34:19
people that maybe is none of my business or whatever but I yeah I'm interested in
34:25
making a connection and like knowing the truth of where you're at and then and
34:31
then hopefully I can be somebody that's sharing that with feels safe and I don't
34:36
know my dad has always said that every every hard thing you go through in life connects you to another segment of the
34:42
population and I feel like those connections you know you're in a injuries mental health
34:48
kids loss you know those connections is what really makes life special you know
34:54
and usually those connections are hard one you know we've definitely lost
34:59
artists on the road we've you know losing Mark losing while bill you know
35:05
those kinds of things you see Jody you see those people around now it's like the connection that you have from going
35:11
through those things together is special and that's the only way we all make it you know I feel like we're
35:17
we're here to connect and to love each other did you get there on your own do you think or do you feel like this is uh
35:24
do you do you do a lot of reading as far as kind of getting yourself to that that point of because that that seems to be a
35:29
little bit of a Zen uh thing about you a little bit more um in the in the present
35:34
in the now a little Eckhart Tolle there or is it just you uh those are some lofty names but I yeah I I I don't know
35:42
I just feel like we've navigated some stuff as as parents my wife navigated
35:47
stuff early on in our relationship and I feel like if you want to just end up having somebody who will walk next to
35:54
you and say hey let's do this you really realize the value of leaning in being vulnerable and then hopefully being able
36:02
to be on the receiving end of when somebody needs that as well so I I feel like you and I were both in relationships
36:09
before I was married once before I mean all those connecting points and then you're with somebody like hey I'm in a
36:14
tough spot here's what I'm going through you go oh I've I've gone through that I've navigated stuff and I just feel
36:21
like there's such benefit to not glossing over that but going hey at
36:26
least being open to like tell me more if not sort of like investigating absolutely I mean the the gratitude that
36:33
you can kind of let yourself have you know arguments that you've gotten within with people in the past and the way I
36:40
argue with my my partner now the way I argue with her it's like sometimes I'll just stop and be like just have an
36:46
appreciation for it you're being a reasonable human being right now I can I
36:51
can take that and understand what you're saying and yeah yeah quit smiling during our argument you look like a lunatic
36:58
yeah I'd feel like it's just uh there's a there's a safety that comes from
37:05
that's another thing my dad has said that there's nothing more seductive than being understood oh man there's no way
37:12
to be understood other than to be vulnerable and being vulnerable is risky but man the times where you've had a
37:18
conversation or somebody shared something with you that's tough or whatever you really start really looking forward
37:24
to seeing that person again yeah crossing paths and it's it's different than like surface stuff and that's not
37:30
to put down or minimize anybody who's not as comfortable no way just getting
37:35
naked and if y'all like here I am here's everything that's going on with me I mean that everyone's got their level of
37:41
that but I I do think there is those connections that come from that willingness is it's like a drug you you
37:48
really want that and enjoy that when somebody will meet you there like oh I'll I'll say something vulnerable or
37:54
I'll apologize you know and you trust each other and that is amazing yeah totally totally you're you're I feel
38:01
like you're you're good at that that's something I appreciate about you yeah when you go with your life like me you
38:06
have to be good at apologizing for sure and that's that's me I can I can be uh
38:13
you know energy level for sure when I'm not at my best and I I have plenty of opportunities to apologize and my wife
38:20
will just say that's okay babe
38:27
yeah but you're always I don't know I feel like we're working you know we're always working on getting getting to be
38:34
a little bit better and sure trying to stay on that path but um yeah hey you're in California you talked about you're
38:40
pretty close to the coast you do a lot of swimming you do a lot of Surfing talking about reality that's got to
38:46
inhibit what we do for a living and how you get out there how do you how do you do that how do you mean yeah I know I
38:51
think that's uh I think that's a concept that a lot of people think must be how it is here I don't have any problem at
38:58
all spending seven days a week in the shop because that's how we live here you know the ocean is always at the End of
39:04
the Street my bike is in the garage you know there's always some nature to just
39:09
go and while away your time with but the only way we're able to stay here is is by me going to work my wife going to
39:16
work so I don't have a hard time and I like being in the studio my studio is in an old dairy barn from the night early
39:23
1900s it's on Old Ranch nice but yeah it's it's it's nice having that you know
39:28
on the way to work you're having a glance at the waves you're taking in the ocean you're smelling the freeze
39:34
whatever and you can still separate that okay as far as your uh how work and play
39:39
yeah I mean it's almost in a resort I think always being you know self-employed there's always that the
39:45
pull of do I have to go to work but probably more something that I feel like
39:50
I struggle with navigating is like I should be in the studio you know it's not is is taking time out of the studio
39:58
you know because you know it's kind of like being a teacher there's always a lesson plan you could be working on oh
40:03
yeah that was what I studied in college was was Elementary's I wanted to be in the elementary school teacher and so you
40:10
know really that's one of those professions like being self-employed artists that there's you would have been an amazing Elementary School yeah second
40:17
grade that was my when I did all my student teaching second grade was my was my favorite yeah you have an incredible
40:23
thing with kids I've seen you out on the road we have been fortunate enough to to be neighbors at the at the Des Moines
40:29
yes festival and one year you and I were side by side and the next year we were
40:35
across the street but the side by side that's the one that drove my wife crazy because she's she's a jeweler and in
40:43
that business you you can't walk away because somebody could walk by and scoop up your livelihood and put it in their
40:48
pocket where you and I sell large heavy things that nobody's walking away with we'll be back in an hour
40:55
yeah so you and I had a corner a double corner and we sat there and had like a four day conversation and then oh let me
41:04
go in there and sell uh four hours worth of work or something like that in 10 minutes and then go back to my
41:10
conversation but I was set across from you one year and and uh I couldn't move
41:15
it was so freaking oh my God my ear I don't think there's a year that I I think it'll be a long time until there's
41:21
that that year at Des Moines was I I I've yeah Beyond I mean people talk
41:26
about Ann Arbor I've never done Ann Arbor but that was just unbelievable what was that 115 with the heat index
41:31
and yeah we're going to the hospital the index was 115 and I just couldn't and I
41:36
just I'm at some point I'd be like well I feel like I'm dying now so I'm gonna go sit in the coffee shop for two hours
41:43
yeah and nobody can when have you ever done nobody came on Saturday it was like cooled down to 100 and Saturday night I
41:50
thought you know we were all thinking people were going to come back out it was just it was like people were all
41:56
during that heat of the day and we're having very limited and this I feel like defines you a little bit and I meant to
42:03
share this with you and again I haven't thought about it until except that time but it was so hot we just wanted we
42:09
couldn't even talk to each other at the end of the show we just left gross so uh but I took this this mom and this little
42:15
boy came by your booth and this little boy's talking to you and you just immediately in spite of the 115 you're
42:22
down on the ground talking to the boy and I actually took a couple of pictures of you because I thought it was so funny and so sweet and also there was an
42:28
element of like Jesus Christ how in the world are you able to engage on this level but you're down on the ground you
42:35
even did like a Superman on the ground with this little boy and you're like like it was amazing and also like I
42:43
can't how's he doing it I just can't even do it and I sent the picture to Susie and I'm like hey check this out like my neighbors lost his mind yeah
42:50
kids he has always been my favorite I was always the babysitter and I was was
42:55
I was like a psych social work major the first couple years of college I wanted to work with abused kids and then you
43:02
realized like just be a teacher you'll work with that same population just in a different setting right but yeah kids
43:08
kids always bring a smile to my face they'll ask you anything maybe that's yeah they're on my level right the last
43:14
inappropriate question you know they want to know they have that Curiosity so it's I feel like it's a kinship with the
43:22
little people they love you they hug you and kiss you on the mouth and want to ride around on your leg and I I feel
43:28
like that's pretty endearing it's honest yeah it's honest it's human right yeah they're not afraid to tell you the truth
43:34
you know or say they don't like like it or say they like it you know and I feel like that yeah it only especially hurts
43:40
when it comes from your own yeah that's when they really what do you mean all right how are your kids what are
43:48
your what are the ages you've got 24 and 18. yeah wow they still just kicking your ass well
43:55
it's not kicking my ass but it's they're definitely uh our therapist says to us well it sounds like your boys are making
44:01
their own choices you know uh which is which is great and it's uh
44:08
it's been a treat watching them navigate and it's it's we've been through some hard stuff
44:13
mental health stuff and and you realize what's what's most important is is not
44:19
always what college you're going to choose what's most important is is can you talk about your feelings can you
44:26
have successful relationship can you move towards being independent and there's you know fortunately there's
44:32
lots of ways to do that Lots yes I don't know about you but as you you know when you're when your kids are younger you
44:39
have ideas and then as you they get older and you see more and more of who they are and how they operate and and
44:45
you I feel like it's just staying connected and being with them on the journey whatever that looks like
44:51
sometimes that's really challenging is is really in the long run your only play
44:57
you know like yeah frustrating as that might be a time you know it's like hey
45:02
I'm your dad I love you you're a good person and we'll figure it out together
45:08
you know yeah or it's I don't know parenting is like a big old Jeff section sculpture you can let the ball roll and
45:15
then you can tap it here and there but it's going to go down its own yeah yeah you really your your influence your
45:21
sphere of influence gets smaller in in in a lot of ways but you do always have
45:27
control over that connection and that can be challenging as well if they're in a tough spot but yeah I mean that's
45:34
that's really you want to look back and say you're putting that connecting foot forward the most and that's I think
45:40
that's what will get you through it yeah yeah definitely and uh you are
45:46
dealing with constant change with those guys too as I am I've got 14 and they are too I mean they they are too the
45:53
world social media sex substance mental health school expectation body image I
46:00
mean man it is it is uh a lot to navigate we have two boys and a lot of
46:06
people say well fortunately you don't have girls you know I I don't know yes girls when it comes to pregnancy and and
46:12
having babies and stuff push come to shove they're the ones that bear the brunt of that physically but man raising
46:20
boys I I want my boys to be as engaged and responsible for those kind of decisions as anybody and so because of
46:27
that you know the risks and the pressures are are just as great I I feel like yeah I you know trying to raise men
46:34
that can talk about their feelings be respectful checking in apologizing I
46:40
mean it's it's it's it's it's it's tough it's tough growing up now I think it's it is the polls on them and the you know
46:46
toxic masculinity uh Trope then you can just let them you know go down that path if you wanted and or if you don't guide
46:53
them yeah uh all of those things and it's it is tough how do you how do your
46:59
kids uh do they guide your or impede any of that kind of creative process as far
47:05
as being a parent and trying to be present and also be an artist and I mean for sure I think when when they were
47:12
younger you know leaving for shows and stuff was always just so hard you know
47:18
I'd be coaching basketball or we'd be getting in the water after school and then I'd be trying to get stuff ready
47:23
and I'd be leaving for a week and I remember one time loading up the van and Hank was probably five or six and he's I
47:31
wish you didn't have to leave dad or whatever and I'm kind of like have big tears in my eyes hugging my wife goodbye
47:38
and and telling my kids goodbye and and she said babe it could be way worse and I said yeah you know how how could it be
47:46
worse she said if we couldn't wait for you to leave and I said yeah so she said
47:51
babe I've got it have a good show and we'll see when you get back we can't wait for you to be home and I said yeah
47:58
that would be way worse that would be way worse you know yeah so to be it's to
48:03
have that connection at home yeah that was that was I yeah I've I've told that
48:09
little interaction to so many people and it's it's true that would be way worse when's dad getting out of here you know
48:16
so the fact that he incredibly like to be together is is you kind of hang on to
48:21
that when when it's tough and you're you're in Chicago and you've been gone for 10 days and you're not gonna be home
48:27
for another six and it's raining and you know it's like well that's the thing too is it your your travel times are a lot a
48:34
lot different I I always said if I ever I lived in Richmond Virginia for a long time so I worked that 95 Corridor as far
48:40
as shows go and I'd dip all the way down to Miami you could get there and you know that would be a day and a half but
48:46
you could get to any show that almost any show you wanted to do in 12 to 14 hours you could do a whole schedule
48:51
whereas you've got you know you're not just going to Chicago it's it's Old Town plus a couple of days of travel each
48:59
Place 32 hours to Chicago it's 48 hours to Miami it's 40 hours to Philly yeah I
49:05
mean the closest shows that we do is La Quinta is six hours and then art in the
49:10
pearls 13 Park city is 13 but yeah to get out to the Midwest it's 20 plus you
49:16
know Denver's almost 20. so you're always trying to link a few together you always so you have to to put together
49:23
like I've said this before but it's like if I'm telling a new artist it's like okay take a 200 mile thread and drop
49:31
that on anywhere on the Mississippi River and that's where you should live as an art show you know but we didn't we didn't yeah
49:37
yeah I mean you know and we have artists we have artists and friends that live in
49:43
all those areas have community in all those areas and stuff nice I really enjoy living where we live lucky enough
49:49
to live by the ocean is just such a huge part of who I am there's just more
49:54
Logistics if you're gonna you know make a living doing art festivals in the midwest where we live and so I you know
50:00
you drive you fly you you just make it work and you're you just be good with your money when you make it that's when
50:08
you got to do that at any on any level as an artist but yeah it's it's we have
50:13
our families out here in great community and friends and stuff so it's it's worth
50:18
it but yeah it's not you know Robin Leslie living in Iowa it's like 10 hours from Dallas five hours from Chicago it's
50:25
like so Rob Matthews and Leslie geinen who you're talking about some some close friends of ours they ended up they were
50:31
Californians uh forever and then decided to move because of what uh talking about it just was yeah yeah you're always
50:38
linking several together which works you know there's always some schedule you
50:44
can piece together yeah it does but you do that that drive and park yeah yeah fly and throw your uh catalytic
50:51
converters yeah exactly just to the gods exactly I haven't had knock on wood I haven't I can't believe I'm saying this
50:57
out loud but I haven't I haven't had a massive breakdown I guess I did when I had to cancel Des Moines two years ago I
51:04
had a trans transmission issue but other than that I haven't had any really grave
51:09
mechanical issues or or had like you were really putting yourself out I know I know that's just we talk about that
51:16
here when you're getting ready to go surfing it's like you're never asking the person you're going sir have you ever seen a shark when you're putting on
51:22
your wetsuit you're like dude what are you doing right now what are you talking about like yeah that's you're tempting yeah it
51:30
feels like it feels like that way but it's amazing a community that we have though I had car charger one time and I
51:37
was on my way and it was just with my trailer I had you know I just got out there and I
51:42
think I texted one friend and then they were back and all of a sudden there were three people volunt oh I'm on I'm on
51:47
Route 10 uh coming through Louisiana because we were doing that Winter Park to uh Bayou City run and all of a sudden
51:56
I had like Chris Bruno and and Kemper and a couple other folks who were like we can throw your yeah man you know
52:02
how bad is it yeah this is a great Community it's a great a great family totally from the resources of advice on
52:09
shows materials or whatever it's uh if you want to lean in and and take advantage of that yeah I think most
52:16
people are you know because we've all been there we've all been stuck on the side of the road going I wish Chris
52:22
Chris Bruno was coming my direction right now you know whatever uh once
52:27
you've been there you know it's it's like a boating is the same way right you always stop to help somebody when you're
52:33
out on the ocean or out on the lake because invariably it'll be you and you want you want somebody stopping now
52:39
exactly yeah it's all part of the circle of karma Karma yeah kindness anything it's just a
52:47
we do help each other and we rely on each other quite a lot as far as you know when injuries happen and you know a
52:54
lot of us are getting older too you talk about that I've talked to some of the some artists who have you know they just
53:00
can't quite do it anymore and and I've gone back to help help some friends that have you know I haven't been able to
53:06
help because um they've already been on the road or something like that when you see them
53:11
struggling through but certain breakdowns have been just savagely brutal and I don't need to call any
53:17
shows out by name because they can't control the wind or the weather but man
53:22
um it's a it's a tough business a little empathy goes a long way yeah and if you can all your panels are still up and
53:29
somebody's struggling with the wind or with their you know I don't know I I always feel like I I can help somebody
53:35
out for 10 minutes or carry the last big load or something I I feel like what what that does just for we're all in
53:42
this together you know and yeah it's uh ironic it that doesn't seem like a very
53:47
much of a an American sentiment right now or nothing we really want to admit as a nation it seems like we we don't
53:55
want to all be in this together but we are so I I feel like uh man helping each
54:00
other out have a little empathy checking in I mean that's you get a lot of opportunity to do that doing the art
54:06
show circuit and that's that's my favorite I like that a lot yeah I was uh I got a phone call from a friend that
54:12
was you know 20 feet away and she's out on the street and has forgotten the Chuck in order to get the Shelf off of
54:18
the booth that she designed and was she was like we can you can you help me the 10 to starting to come down it's like
54:24
the main it was mainstream there's no reason to not give them a shout but uh Main Street Fort Worth and you know they
54:30
take that tent down that street you can't tell that we were there the next day yeah it's gone and that you you can
54:36
hear and it's like I've already you know I'm sitting there in my in my boxers
54:41
ready to turn the lamp off she's like can you help me you're like yeah let's go and I mean unfortunately
54:48
my version of helping was like look we we can't find the Chuck I don't have
54:54
that kind of Chuck the shelf's got to go yeah it's coming off the wall it was just like just I just hit man hands it
55:01
just it's here it comes and we can help fix it later but man it's the these
55:07
situations we all get into man it's it's uh it's a strange world out there so
55:12
yeah you can be lots of uh unknowns and unpredictable definitely more more
55:18
you're uh you mentioned Rob and Leslie some good art show Friends uh it's I've
55:25
reached out since he is close to you I I was like hey what do I what do I ask Anthony so this one's coming from uh
55:31
from Iowa he was like you gotta ask him about his and I've been kind of getting away from some of the the early stages I
55:39
was I thought it was like well I want to get down into the dirt and see you know get under the skin and see what what
55:44
makes people tick as far as like here's some stories too like I I I like talking to Ray Alfonso and getting into the
55:52
stories I'm like just shut up and listen to the story telling time but he did want me to ask you like your early work
55:59
like you had a completely different body of work as well like like what was what was that all about I didn't even know what was your early start early work I
56:07
feel like I mean before I was supporting myself as an artist I mean I I graduated
56:12
degree in education a degree in Fine Art I wasn't doing any I wasn't thinking about being an artist just every time I
56:19
could take an elective I took an art class and it ended up being I was I was fifth
56:24
year college student and I double majored you know when I graduated I was
56:29
doing a little of this doing a little of that I was I climbed as a for an
56:34
arborist I climbed and pruned trees with chainsaw and rope I Landscaping
56:41
business I did construction cleanup but along the way when I was doing that yeah
56:47
I did some uh like these smaller pieces wood nails wire so always 3D kind of
56:55
sculptural stuff yeah I did some lamps I I did nails and uh baling wire and
57:02
marble candle holders okay I did I was always yeah it was always a maker I was
57:09
always wanting to like make something I was always losing my Dad's socket sets I was always cutting myself with a
57:16
sheetrock knife I was always breaking the blades on the jigsaw I was I was always wanting to try to add a room onto
57:23
the tree house or you know we grew up on 11 acres and so I was always out like make something gluing something clamping
57:31
something so never real efficiently I I don't know that I've ever had a lot of expertise but I was up models I was
57:38
always interesting in in making something okay cool your father you mentioned a couple times he's he's
57:44
dropped some pearls on us uh through you here a couple of different times but uh
57:49
was he kind of out there helping you figure stuff out my dad my dad was a hospital administrator
57:55
um and my mom was an emergency room nurse my dad's he built some furniture for the house whatever he he was busy
58:02
Elementary School and High School traveling as as a hostile in administration but yeah there was always
58:08
tools in the garage stuff at your disposal yeah stuff I could lose and and he could be frustrated at like well you
58:15
know he'd always say well it didn't get up and just walk away so where is it I don't know Dad
58:20
then it's like rusted out behind the basketball hoop and the weeds you know oh yeah I guess I was using it out there
58:27
so yeah that's that's but yeah he was he was his dad was a contractor a builder
58:33
and then my mom we always had music tons and tons of Music in in our house so my mom's real creative in that way so they
58:40
were both real inspiring to me and supportive of any creative Endeavor whether it was music or putting
58:48
something together or saying um yeah growing up it was like taking an
58:54
instrument was like most families taking a sport it was like you're gonna take an instrument that wasn't really I don't
58:59
look back and feel like that was an option it was just a given so I took piano for like eight years and then I
59:05
played trombone in high school and then I took guitar lessons a little bit at some point I probably yeah we've
59:11
talked a lot about music as far as being out on the road and it's one of our bonding things yeah what do you what are you listening oh my gosh I just love
59:18
music I just I'm totally I I there's this great app NTS radio
59:24
yeah and it's DJs From Me Over The World playing all kinds of music every day in
59:30
the studio I and I pull up the app and see what's been uploaded from Manchester
59:35
or Zimbabwe or whatever and it's final it's just all kinds of collections of
59:41
music from I just I love it yes and uh yeah you and I have exchanged some like there's a guy in Bristol England or
59:48
something that that's all like old-timey folk and country music from the United States and he it's always all vinyl and
59:55
yeah I I love it incredible give me that name app again I was talking on top of you just so people can tune in oh yeah
1:00:01
NTS n is in Nancy NTS radio that app is just
1:00:07
and it's just an app and you can pull up stuff from radio shows from all over the world is that is that what gets you down the road I mean you're talking about all
1:00:13
these miles these 40-hour drive to to Philly yeah how do you do like when I'm
1:00:18
on the road I I mostly listen to cooking podcasts really
1:00:25
I love that's like cream in the kitchen that's probably my favorite place to be um I love sharing food and making food I
1:00:32
I'm usually kind of the the cook at home and and so yeah there's kcrw's good food
1:00:38
that's the Splendid Table the sporkful there's a bunch of of really great
1:00:43
podcasts that talk about restaurants talk about food talk about ingredients talk about process we love that whole
1:00:50
Chef's Table series on Netflix that's really interesting it's funny with the things that people listen to like the
1:00:57
way that the way that Susan and I get down the road is typically like lately we've been doing this thing it's like
1:01:02
okay we have an eight-hour drive today and you're like eight hours that's
1:01:07
nothing yeah exactly so it's like okay that's uh you can pick
1:01:14
three different things three podcasts or no you've got three I've got three and
1:01:20
then there's gonna be two hours of talking about all of that too so it's like all right well I'm gonna pick these
1:01:26
two albums in this one podcast and she's gonna pick you know these two part whatever and then it ends up being this
1:01:31
thing and it's like okay your turn yeah and then we end up talking about it and she'll she'll get a little bit headier
1:01:37
with with uh with some of the podcasts and then that leads to some really really interesting conversations the
1:01:44
brene Browns and and uh your uh Russell Brand has an interesting kind of heady
1:01:50
heady podcast as far as talk he talks to some big thinkers and he's kind of made a living on being kind of a jackass on
1:01:57
film but he's a really really Petty interesting uh guy yeah it's different it's definitely different you talking
1:02:04
about you and Susan it's definitely different when my wife and I go together which is only like twice a year because she works full time out of the home when
1:02:11
we go together where we're we'll pick a podcast like that like something like that and listen to it or I will have
1:02:17
listened to a podcast like oh babe I want you to I want you to hear this and then we and then we talk about it or
1:02:22
we'll pause it and talk about it we're always interested in relationship I mean that that's that series how I built this
1:02:28
yeah that's a great one you know I listen and I can listen to I can just listen to NPR programming all day I
1:02:35
think that's interesting too I'm kind of a right you know I like Morning Edition and all things considered and democracy
1:02:42
so you're um you work in I mean we've it's funny we've talked almost for an hour now but I haven't really talked
1:02:48
about the work that you're making right now but I did want to talk about like how you you obviously you're a metal
1:02:53
artist or a fabricator cold cold connection fabricator correct and then
1:02:58
uh you're you're doing a lot of recycled Metals yeah it's all all car bodies mostly yeah and getting all of that
1:03:04
color off the car bodies and and uh how do you how do you go about collecting collecting your work and I mean I'm
1:03:11
always I'm you know just in driving around I'll I'll stop and grab a an
1:03:16
orange Coleman cooler from the side of the road in one second just because I don't paint anything color wise so
1:03:23
anything I can find goes into the available stack of of color palette that
1:03:29
I'm working with but mostly mostly I go to the wrecking yard there's two huge wrecking yards Inland
1:03:35
from us here I go there and take my trailer and wander around you know it's
1:03:40
probably five ten acres of cars and find those old pea green Volvos or those you know
1:03:46
late 50s Ford or some beat up silver Toyota Tacoma or you know I'm really just
1:03:54
looking for color people say oh are you a car guy and you know I'd love to be a car guy but I'm
1:04:00
I'm not you're like Sarah Bean she's like she loves reading books uh but she
1:04:06
cuts them up yeah yeah and I feel like I'm I'm I'm always I'm a car guy the
1:04:12
most because that vehicle meant something to somebody all the camping trips the trips to the store the trips
1:04:19
to the school and everything so you think about the history of those when you when you're pulling apart yeah and
1:04:25
when you have a piece that's got 30 different vehicles in it and you can touch that 82 Toyota Corolla yeah right
1:04:32
there it's that's the paint that was washed and waxed by the owner I'm just that's my favorite I you know if you
1:04:38
were to paint over it or something to me I I would lose that I would lose that
1:04:44
story I would lose that I I would lose that sort of important piece to me yeah
1:04:49
do you ever feel any bad energy off of those Vehicles as well like I mean I remember like interesting question yeah
1:04:55
uh no I no I don't I mean and plenty of I mean plenty of cars I don't know if
1:05:01
you mean like Mortal Mortal bad energy plenty of those cars well no I mean yeah not necessarily like the death of
1:05:07
whatever but I'm almost thinking about I remember looking at Old homes sometimes and you're you're looking for a house to
1:05:13
buy and you walk into a space and it's like well it's a beautiful space but it's just I mean not to get all hippy-dippy on it but it it feels like
1:05:20
this this feels like bad went down here yeah no I don't I don't feel that as much yeah and and ironically there's
1:05:27
most cars in the wrecking yard are not there because of some high-speed head-on good there's most of them are abandoned
1:05:35
vehicles there's lots of cars that don't have any body damage at all old cars new cars so you know I I think mostly cars
1:05:44
end up there because of mechanical failures or issues or lack of Maintenance or whatever so yeah no I don't I don't feel much bad
1:05:51
mojo wandering around yeah um good that that seems like it could have could affected you have a you have
1:05:58
two what I consider kind of two different bodies of work almost where you have you know your your
1:06:04
representational or your shapes and your hearts and then you have some more abstract painting wise and the way that
1:06:10
the the the colors work within each other that almost seems like geometric abstract but uh do you do you ever feel
1:06:18
and I've asked this to other folks in a couple of different ways but do you ever feel like the Public's perception or
1:06:24
their expectation of your work affects your creativity at all uh what you think
1:06:31
that you have to show as far as uh I was wondering if you're gonna ask me this
1:06:36
and I mean I appreciate when other artists are real honest when they're having conversations with you so I'll
1:06:42
totally uh yeah I have a I have a huge uh at times or I can make a an argument
1:06:49
for a big insecurity with doing the hearts plenty of people come to the booth and
1:06:55
that's their favorite right and plenty of people come to the booth and go Hearts really yeah I believe in that
1:07:01
shape that's the way that's the person I want to well not just a business-wise I
1:07:07
believe in it from like a connection wise I I believe for me it's tough to see a heart and not think that it's
1:07:13
underneath it is something positive I mean that's why we're all connected it's human whatever but definitely there's a
1:07:20
portion of doing hearts for sure that's business we're not the position financially to just do exactly always
1:07:27
with every piece exactly what I want to do I mean I think if that was the case I would do those big grid pieces but
1:07:34
they'd all be like eight foot by eight foot yeah just big enormous I believe in the heart shape I I believe I'm I'm
1:07:41
using materials that are that are unique for executing it but I definitely there
1:07:48
definitely is awareness that that's part of us paying the bills is is is that work and so I you know but you're
1:07:55
creating it within the realm of what you you still want to do sure yeah and I feel like if you weren't you people can
1:08:03
can smell it on you I've done things that have sold really well uh compositions or stories that I've told
1:08:09
that I I finished telling the story and then all of a sudden I'm broke and I'll go back to that story and it's like
1:08:17
pulling teeth to get through it and and then I get it and all of a sudden instead of selling it at every show I I
1:08:23
have it for a while it's like they can smell the uh desperation off of it maybe or there's a weird kind of again I don't
1:08:30
know why we're getting so mojo-ish on this this particular talk but uh it's kind of it's like people can kind of
1:08:37
smell the desperation on it they're like yeah I think it's not interesting I think you can tell and nobody really
1:08:43
comes to mind with this but I think you can tell when somebody's just crying finding it out and I definitely like
1:08:49
you're saying for yourself for myself you know if there's ever a piece or a
1:08:54
time where you're just grinding it out I feel like the work reflects that you know it's hard to genuinely
1:09:01
talk to somebody about that type of work it's hard to I don't think you can fake it so I I Feel Like Making work that
1:09:07
resonates with you as an artist that you feel good about making I think that's probably the only option otherwise it's
1:09:14
just business and there's there's better businesses to run you know more financially successful businesses
1:09:21
there's more of a blueprint I always say if I was just doing it for the money you'd be doing something different so
1:09:26
exactly exactly and and that's the way I feel I feel like as soon as you have
1:09:33
as soon as you've lost energy then it doesn't feel real anymore and I feel like it still feels real you're trying
1:09:39
to say something you know that might be considered kind of a cliched shape with
1:09:44
a different way like you're saying with the objects with the you know it's like I get the there's an artist on the
1:09:50
circuit and I'm not going to name her by name but she calls you handsome heart she's like a handsome heart he's out
1:09:56
there that's uh yeah that's funny it is it's funny to hear other people's perceptions
1:10:01
yeah sure I mean and and I feel like that's why that those abstract grids
1:10:06
those steel quilt looking pieces that really that scratches a different itch
1:10:12
in terms of like use of color it's the same material you're there's a lot of things that the material use is I'm as
1:10:20
interested in the material in that abstract work but it's yeah you don't have that heart shape you're hanging your hat on you're you're doing it a
1:10:27
different way and it's a for me it's a different type of challenge of trying to make work that I'm aesthetically pleased
1:10:32
with when it's those squares and rectangles yeah I'm sure and you have to make those shapes do you make I mean you
1:10:40
put it together kind of I mean I'm not going to try to give away your secrets you kind of did you paint with it almost
1:10:46
like you're painting with those do you create the shapes first to kind of make a puzzle and let it speak on that grid
1:10:52
work yeah yeah I mean I I come up with a basic color palette and then you know I
1:10:58
lay out the Grid on the panel and then I lay in the pieces move them around take
1:11:04
pictures send pictures to my wife what do you see here I like how this looks so it's kind of a lot of blue on the right
1:11:10
hand side whatever that kind of thing sometimes and then once it's all kind of laid out ish then I start welding and
1:11:17
doing the things to to actually put the different elements together but I kind of like get a you know the hearts go
1:11:24
together just one piece at a time real organically the grid work is more I I
1:11:29
lay it out more I feel like the material is so rough that those great pieces is
1:11:34
it's kind of like a you're using the analog of the material and then I want it to be kind of like math to keep it
1:11:40
real contemporary right I want it to look real clean so I feel like there's a different attention to detail without
1:11:46
work yes I'm wanting it to to elevate the materials to the point where they're
1:11:52
they're abstracted from their place of origin most people have no idea that it's a car I'll even tell people it's
1:11:59
all made from car bodies and then they'll say well how do you get the color on there that's the buy-in when people go it's oh that's
1:12:06
actually the that's actually the car and they say yeah it's actually the car body that's the people who like the work
1:12:12
that's their that's their in they really like that aspect of it and that's that's my
1:12:18
end freezing that material as well yeah very cool and it's a you know there's got to be some kind of element of uh
1:12:23
using recycled product in order to to tell your your stories tell stories of
1:12:29
like kind of the Vintage versus the modern yeah it's a human I mean everyone's got a car everyone goes
1:12:36
places in the car I mean there's it's it's it's relatable in a way that you like it or not you know especially here
1:12:43
in the United States cars are a huge deal out of necessity and out of
1:12:48
enjoyment and Collections and stuff like that so using that material I I find
1:12:54
really interesting awesome thank you sir I really appreciate it you've been somebody I've wanted to both of us that
1:13:00
both Douglas and I have wanted to have on the show for a very long time so I appreciate you being patient with the
1:13:05
timing of it and uh the generosity you've had with all of your sharing all of your your valuable input so thank you
1:13:12
sir well thanks thanks for inviting me Will and I've always appreciated my connection with you I love you a lot I
1:13:18
respect you a lot I look forward to uh seeing you out on the road probably next next year unless you're going to be at
1:13:24
La Quinta I was on the on the fence there and I'm not so I'll miss you there but next time I can't wait till the next
1:13:30
time all right I owe you a beer or two okay well uh I'll I'll be giving you a squeeze all right brother okay love you
1:13:36
bye love you too that was a beautiful talk you had there with with Anthony Hansen will I appreciate you so much for
1:13:42
talking to him it's a no talk and to be honest I needed that one as much as I felt like it's good for the
1:13:48
audience I really was in a place where I needed a little pick-me-up I needed that
1:13:54
kind of honest connection kind of felt good that his camera wasn't working and that we just kind of got into it felt
1:13:59
like I called him up like yeah just having a personal chat yeah but it also we dug down into some things that I
1:14:05
really felt like talking to him about so I'm glad well several years back my dad
1:14:10
sat us all down I thought we were gonna have this very big talk and he says I just want you guys to know that I'm done
1:14:16
with small talk I'm no longer doing small talk I'm only doing large talk and
1:14:22
my son was a just a little kid at the time and he got really enthused by this this whole concept and he says grandpa I
1:14:29
want to have huge humongous talk this was huge among us talk
1:14:34
excellent that's really cool no more small talk it it felt good so and the
1:14:39
other thing I loved was his his talk about being a dad I mean we're dads and
1:14:45
I'm at that point that he was talking talking about you know about kids
1:14:50
choices and them becoming adults and moving into this next stage of life
1:14:56
and at some point I realized recently that for so much of our kids lives we
1:15:03
make choices for them so they have the best possible outcome you know and at some point when your kids get to
1:15:10
be adults you think I don't make those choices anymore you know we've taught them well we've handed
1:15:16
it over to them and now they make those choices for themselves they get to decide their outcomes and I just loved
1:15:23
that part of his talk about being a dad about you know kind of turning yourself over to the process and it was cool
1:15:30
right lots of lots of parallels with the art show world but sometimes it's just more important to be be the family guy
1:15:37
and he and I have that he's he's mentioned that thing to me too before where he's like well at least you know
1:15:42
we're all sad that you're leaving that's a big deal celebrating that really touched my heart because I spent a lot
1:15:47
of my years on the road waving goodbye to the family and feeling like sad yeah
1:15:53
and that was a really good moment when he said that I'm like that's true but they were all happy when I came home and
1:16:00
they were sad I was leaving so that that tells you you're doing something right I guess absolutely get there home safe
1:16:06
folks uh get out there on the road and sell your wares and get home to the folks that love you or take them with
1:16:11
you we got got to get going I gotta go pick up my kid from cross country Douglas has to go saw his own foot off
1:16:17
we're gonna see in a couple weeks all right guys we'll see you later thanks will for hammering this out we'll have a
1:16:23
good one man all right buddy this podcast is brought to you by the National Association of Independent
1:16:29
Artists the website is naiaartists.org also sponsored by
1:16:34
zapplication that's zapplication.org and while you're at it check out Will's website at
1:16:41
willarmstrongart.com and my website at cigarithglass.com be sure to subscribe
1:16:47
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