The Whipple Effect/ Lynn Whipple

Join co-hosts Douglas Sigwarth https://www.sigwarthglass.com/ and Will Armstrong http://www.willarmstrongart.com/, professional working artists who talk with guests about ART & SELLING.  This week's topics include finding inspiration, luck vs logic, and the ripple effect of positive energy.

This week’s guest is Lynn Whipple http://lynnwhipple.com/, a mixed media artist, author, and instructor from Winter Park, Florida. Lynn describes her creative path which centers around "lighting up" the creative energy in her brain to unleash a playful approach to her work. In addition, Lynn reveals how saying "Yes" to opportunities that have pushed her outside of her comfort zone has made for a rewarding life.

Hear Lynn on the Kate Shepherd Podcast "Creative Genius" https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/16-lynn-whipple-learning-to-trust-your-instincts-through/id1572524424?i=1000555923264

See Lynn on The See Saw Project on YouTube https://youtu.be/PZN5X0MOpY4
.
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Transcript

0:12

artist podcast sponsored by the National Association of Independent Artists also

0:19

sponsored by zapplication I'm will Armstrong and I'm a mixed media artist I'm Douglas sigworth glassblower join

0:26

our conversations with professional working artists

0:34

Douglas sigworth I could not be less happy to see your smiling face here this morning how are you today is the day

0:41

that we just released Bennett's episode and we usually have a little breather a

0:46

couple days from each other maybe a week and we can kind of like you know prepare for the next one but we're both rushing

0:51

off here and so we're jumping right into the next one there's no way I'm taking my microphone and my little portable

0:57

Studio here on the road so we're recording this one on the Fly what's going on what's going on is I am maybe

1:03

about five bins away from slamming the back door shut on my van and I'm ready

1:08

to head south head down to the land of music and food and art and you know I'm

1:16

excited about you going to New Orleans Jazz Fest I'd be lying if I said I wasn't completely jealous my wife and I

1:22

did not get into that one this year neither one of us um I've actually never gotten a dip at the well at that one so

1:27

congratulations thank you I'm I'm super excited and it's the thing where we got juried in in 2020 so we got we got the

1:34

notice in 2019 teen and then we all know what happened after that so there was the constant rolling over of this event

1:41

and for it to be finally happening I'm just so enthused I'm really happy for

1:47

you also uh don't talk about it anymore I'm really tired of it I'm kidding I hear you I hear you no but listen it's

1:53

my first time going so of course I'm gonna sound all giddy and happy about it so I don't profess to be like the one

1:58

who juries into jazz fest every single year so I it's funny though that one because of the constant rollovers I

2:06

haven't even had a chance to reapply for what three years now so it's uh it's a

2:11

tough one one thing you said last week that was kind of interesting that's been stuck in my mind this weekend because we

2:17

just recorded it a couple days ago um yesterday about That Jazz Fest thing

2:23

you know another what you you're talking about the fact that you know you're

2:28

gonna have to be ready to pack and ship things but one thing that I think you're going to be really surprised about that

2:34

event is that it's such a a neighborhood thing like it's actually a neighborhood party people just they come out on their

2:41

porches you're going to see people walking with their chairs from blocks away just from their own front porches

2:46

it's just an amazing neighborhood event it's like International talent but just total neighborhood New Orleans thing

2:53

that you're just going to get to be a part of so uh have a blast eat all the food if you're on any kind of diet if

3:00

you and Renee are watching any kind of calories throw it out the window okay

3:05

eat all the food drink all the drinks have an amazing time uh that's I

3:10

appreciate that because the you know this this topic this conversation I had

3:16

with Lynn today was really kind of get me back in the game of being enthused

3:21

about doing things again I mean I noticed last episode when we were recording and I'm I'm like stressing

3:27

about the details about preparing for the show and it was kind of sucking some of the joy out of it and so it just

3:34

feels really great first of all to have had her kind of get my head on straight again and to remember why we're in this

3:40

business it's to live life and to have experiences and you know to to take

3:46

advantage of the fact that I'm going to like the coolest Festival in the world with this awesome music and awesome food

3:53

and yeah there's some art there too but you know what I'm saying it's going to be a huge awesome sorry well I'm I'm I

3:59

can see you're you're shrinking before my eyes I just you started in I just like just

4:06

tell me when you're done Dude tell me I just want to let you know to keep me humble we were talking about being in

4:12

this this great show this great opportunity I got a rejection last week which

4:18

oh man it did a number on my head oh yeah which uh who gave you the I don't want to talk about which show it was but

4:24

it's one of those shows that's a good show and it's a show that I do regularly and and you kind of feel like even

4:30

though you know it's competitive and there are some shows that you you stop kind of feeling like you have to hold

4:36

your breath on that maybe you kind of feel like it's it's a thing that you're going to be there didn't get in yeah it's like oh riding this wave in this

4:43

business is hard it is you know I totally know what you mean and it's it's I never like to admit when I don't get

4:50

into a show especially when you start talking to clients when they're like oh are you going to be at so and so and you're like oh you know it didn't fit

4:56

with my schedule this year is always my line that's my yeah with my schedule I

5:02

didn't fit with their uh you know as opposed to the some of the artists online call it the pfu the police

5:08

off is is uh what you get instead of a an acceptance or a whatever you know it

5:15

does keep you humbled Douglas but you never know I mean sometimes some of those shows you don't get in and it they

5:20

do you a favor you get into something else there was a hell of a weather weekend totally this past weekend in

5:26

both Oklahoma City who had tornadoes and then South Lake gosh we also had South

5:33

Lake that had the threat of rain all Sunday and I don't know if they ever got it on Sunday evening as at Paco I did

5:40

hear that they broke down the show earlier did they really that people were able to some people were were thinning

5:46

out because they're looking at radar and looking at the inevitable started thinning things out until the show gave

5:52

the actual go-ahead and then it was like get out of town before everything turns into chaos here so I think they were

5:59

given enough notice and warning to to kind of protect it that's nice it's it's kind when the show keeps us in mind not

6:06

just until five o'clock when the show is over but five to seven when we have to be packing up our precious belongings

6:12

you know a lot of people can't you know I I can't throw that stuff in the truck wet you know especially if you're going

6:17

to be leaving or you can't unpack it for two weeks and and all that so if it blows over on the ground and hits the

6:24

ground we've got broken glass so then it's like it's a it's a losing proposition as opposed to making sales

6:30

so yep we all know the challenges you know one of the things that Lynn and I

6:35

talked a little bit about but I wanted to talk more about it with you is the

6:40

nature of our business of kind of this showing up being in person and being our

6:46

own bosses that we have this need to impose deadlines on ourselves in order

6:53

to put our backs up against the wall to have that tension to have that that push

6:58

in that point in and that Yang in order for us to really like keep propelling ourselves I think that's why everybody

7:04

struggled through covet we didn't have any kind of imposed deadlines it's like well if you'd been able to have those

7:10

kind of deadlines on yourself during covid we all would have had just just reams of artwork all the way through I

7:17

remember one director saying you know after somebody canceled a show saying what the hell have you guys been doing

7:23

for the past year now drinking I did bristle at that but at

7:29

the same it's like never mind your own business mind your own business quit sending me

7:36

emails well we all have to walk at each other's shoes I mean yeah they might not

7:42

understand the delicate balance you know go talking about the delicate balance I read an article that was posted online

7:49

after Dogwood that the executive director did an interview with their local paper talking about how their

7:57

festival and they presumed a number of other in-person events I don't know if

8:03

they were limiting it to art shows or if they were saying in general are struggling because they can't get

8:08

volunteers they can't get funding they lost money through covid behind the scenes it might be a little more Touch

8:15

and Go than we all know right with some of these events yeah that's terrifying I

8:20

know we've all struggled this this past few years and we're still kind of struggling to put the pieces together

8:25

but it was a scary article to read which is why I didn't read it uh

8:34

no chance yeah well what do you think about that

8:40

kind of like that riding that wave of uncertainty I mean do you you you seem

8:45

kind of like a logical intellectual kind of person who like I don't know that

8:51

it's there are some people when you say that meant to be thing about well if I

8:56

didn't get into that show maybe it wasn't meant to be that Kismet that like higher power kind of looking down on us

9:02

kind of you know how do you feel about that whole topic or that situation uh

9:07

part of me I I'm kind of like I've got the Yen and the Yang it's like I've got my lucky shirt and then I'll wear you

9:15

know I've got I've got this shirt this short sleeve shirt that I that I've been wearing it that shows the last year yeah

9:22

I've only worn it a you know a handful of times but I don't wear it in my regular life it's uh that's only my show

9:29

shirt and it's get it's got killer money in it it's Gotta you know it I may have burned it out in Fort Worth but it's I

9:36

feel like that shirt's got money in it that's horse

9:42

you know I feel good in that shirt and if you feel good you're gonna do uh well

9:47

so that I know it's like Michael schwegman and I are he's one of my very best friends and I and I I talked to him

9:54

uh a lot about luck and logic and he

9:59

does not believe in luck at all and I can't tend to kind of fall more in his

10:04

line it's like well it's really just logic you know you have these these things that you go through and if you're

10:10

set up with your business plan you're like if I have X amount of this if I can sell x amount of this then the bright

10:16

people come along then I can sell one or two of the big thing I mean that's really more of your your business model

10:22

and it has more to do with feeling good being open to the sale

10:28

imagining yourself in the right place and being there and and setting yourself up for Success than it does luck I don't

10:36

really believe in in total luck to be honest total well so you you create the space

10:42

for you to be in the right mindset yes well not just that but you you create

10:49

the space for yourself to be in the right mindset but you have to be in the right show too I could be in the right mindset in you know at the hearing aid

10:57

Festival in Wisconsin I I I'm not going to make any money I hear is an amazing

11:03

show and I know that's that's that's good application

11:08

you hear it's great come on Douglas all right uh but you know what I mean and

11:14

I'm not sure I know totally yeah well an extension from that is not just in the sales aspect of things but something

11:21

that Lynn talks about in her book is she talks about doing that same kind of

11:28

technique with getting ourselves in the creative zone for making our work if

11:34

we're showing up to work and we've got this long list of things we need to do

11:39

we need to finish this piece for a gallery we have a commission for for somebody we've got to get ready for this

11:45

show and we're only thinking of the external and repeating the old formula it's so hard to be creative and so hard

11:52

to bring ourselves to that place but if we create a space where we prime the

11:58

pump she calls it we play we get enthused about our work again that then

12:04

you get those juices flowing and then you kind of shift back into that lane and that's what's worked for her over the years is to allow herself the

12:10

freedom to be expressive and creative I know that's important the problem that I run into with that I know it's important

12:17

and I know I need to take the time but sometimes I feel like I don't have the time to take the time to make the time

12:23

it's just it's like oh my God I just have to get to work and then I realize like well I'm a lot more productive if I

12:30

exercise during the day I can't be productive you know I'm sitting there I'm at the easel my line quality is not

12:36

great I'm working on this piece and I'm like I'm taking breaks and I'm stepping back I'm like you know

12:43

if you wouldn't just panic and try to work through it if you just take an

12:48

hour-long hike and get outside then you'd come back in and the quality of your work would be much better so I I

12:55

can't wait locks it yeah it does and I can't wait to hear the talk for me what gets in the way for me

13:01

has been over the years the fear of wasting expensive raw materials

13:08

so with glass you kind of feel like everything we make needs to have an outcome it needs to be like we're making

13:14

a vase for somebody or vessel we're making something that has to turn out

13:21

exactly how it's envisioned why I got into glassblowing as I like the conversation with the material where

13:27

it's like the material does this and then I do that and it's like this kind of like how we yin and yang back and

13:32

forth when we're talking here we kind of ebb and we flow and when I'm working in

13:38

that it has to look this way or it has to turn out that way that can really it can really put the brakes on create can

13:45

you be more of um I mean you are an artist but you're also a bit of a Tradesman you and Renee

13:52

um yeah when she is into like say Renee's into a headspace can she just

13:59

be a worker can she just be a Tradesman if she's not in a creative space or can

14:04

you back each other um I haven't talked about this on the podcast we really operate as one person

14:11

even though we're partnership in our work because the way we work is we

14:17

design the work together but then in the execution of it there's one person who has to be What's called the gaffer when

14:24

you're a glassblower the gaffer is the person who's making those instinctual kind of decisions as the piece is

14:30

evolving and changing we can't step back from our easel we don't have it easier and say should we add a little more blue

14:36

to that should we do a little that it's like playing soccer it's like somebody just kicked you a ball and you've got a quickly instinctually react to it so I

14:45

take the lead I'm the gaffer at the beginning of the piece we do the layering based on how we've planned it

14:50

out but there's variances on how every single piece is going to turn out with how we I layer all the clear and the

14:56

colored glass onto our blowpipe then I hand the piece over to her and she does the final shaping and the form which

15:03

basically divides the workload in half but throughout the process one of us is

15:08

the leader and one of us is the follower so if the leader isn't there to show up and they can't do their part of it then

15:15

it's a wasted day so we find other things I guess that's my my question like if you if you start in like you

15:20

can't just be you can you just lean into the the utilitarian uh factor it's like

15:26

I know how X Y and Z goes it's like a bricklayer almost where you the creative

15:31

part has happened in the past and you can just lean into the past works we both have made work from start to finish

15:38

as students and Ben like the gaffer all the way through and we could do it again

15:43

but our uniqueness of how we do our work is our work reflects the partnership so

15:50

the work reflects how I described our situation and if I finished a piece for example if Renee's got a pinched nerve

15:56

in her shoulder or something and I finished the pieces it would look like a different body of work it would look like a different artist right on

16:03

um so this work that we do is reflective of the steps that we do so yeah those

16:09

are that's just how we have to have to do things that's good um so it's an interesting week this week because I

16:15

have not actually listened to the Lin Whipple talk yet typically I'll get a chance to listen to the interview and

16:21

then I'll you know reflect on it or lead up to it this time I can just I can just

16:27

assume or uh guess what your talk is going to be about I'm always like

16:33

um I'm looking forward to hopefully getting to talk to John Whipple further down the line but what I've always loved

16:39

about the Whipples is their creativity John's headiness and lens

16:45

energy and action and her personality comes through into her painting so I'm

16:50

excited to kind of lean into some of that personality getting to know them what really strikes me is they have

16:57

different personalities but what they both have at the heart of it is their willingness to play they both are very

17:05

playful and joyful when it comes to their work and just trying stuff and letting things evolve and creating a

17:12

space for inspiration so I kind of felt a little bit like I was having a talk with brene brown uh during this

17:20

interview so maybe some people will find a little bit of that uh no shame you

17:25

know this has been uh it's funny that you say that because it kind of segues out of a couple weeks ago we talked to

17:30

Bennett which is has been actually not that long ago in real time yes but uh they're going from brene Brown and Glenn

17:37

and Doyle and Abby uh talking to it's it's a bit of a feminist motivational

17:42

speaker uh chunk it's been an powering couple of weeks right absolutely we went

17:48

from toxic masculinity back into feminist empowerment so I'm I'm excited about this yin and yang section of the

17:55

podcast let's get right into the talk Douglas you want to let's do it let's turn this interview on with Lynn Whipple

18:01

from Winter Park Florida this episode of The Independent artist podcast is brought to you by zap the

18:08

digital application service where artists and art festivals connect I see here there are some new features with

18:14

the events list category through zap which will help us with looking up new shows to fill a spot in our schedule you

18:21

know I feel like I should have something to say but I wasn't really listening to you because I'm looking at the events list right now and it's pretty cool okay

18:29

so you drop the menu down and there at the bottom go scrolling all the way about third thing down in the smaller

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print it just says events list that's right all of the shows appear here regardless of their application deadline

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you can use filtering and sorting to narrow down your search to find the

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right show that fills your desired time frame or location I know a lot of people love that calendar I like seeing the

18:52

list of events I like scrolling through and doom scrolling late at night it's like online dating they don't let you

18:59

swipe left or right but you can figure out who you want to date coming up here Lynn welcome to the podcast I'm so happy

19:06

that you're here with me today I'm so happy to be with you Douglas I listened to the podcast and I love

19:15

I know we've talked about having you on for a while and I have to say the way we

19:22

organize our talks does come pretty organically and it kind of feels like

19:28

things have their moment and I really am having a moment right now where I need

19:34

to talk to Lynn Whipple

19:44

it's hard sometimes this job we do because it's not just one job it's a thousand little jobs that we wear the

19:51

hat of so many right and you also have a few professional jobs on top of just

19:57

having the multiple jobs it takes to be an artist you know you take on the role of author and the role of teacher and

20:04

all that kind of stuff and I don't know what I'm doing I just try and share the stuff that I love and

20:10

that really is it I had no idea how to write a book I thought I used to sit out there and my little student go I guess

20:16

this sucker's not going to write itself I guess I start putting things down it was just like a painting really just

20:22

start throw some stuff at the canvas and then start moving it around and editing it nobody tells you how to write a book

20:28

I'll tell you that like I thought oh they're gonna coach me along you know nope they didn't really I just had to do

20:33

it that was something I wanted to talk about was that an opportunity that that came to you organically or is that

20:39

something that you thought I'd like to write a book and you sought out that opportunity it was kind of twofold I

20:45

think a long time ago I can't really even remember my cats here what he's

20:50

gonna get involved I think it might have been through Carla Sondheim who I was teaching online classes with and Carla

20:57

is marvelous and she has gosh eight books or something and they're all

21:02

creative so I think she might have put me in touch with someone and then it

21:07

just took off from there I see I think she emailed and I sort of followed up

21:13

and off we went do you have one book more than one book no I just have one but Carla so she was a great sort of a

21:21

cheerleader and and an inspiration you know she's like oh I think you have a book let me reach out to Quarry

21:28

publishing it was the name of it when she said you have a book did she mean your teachings like the technical

21:34

teachings of paint how to paint or was it more of that mentoring part of it that that you can do this this is life

21:41

lesson kind of thing that you have going as well yeah it was sort of a combination I think it was because I had

21:48

a really popular class about painting really loose flowers and layering and

21:53

not worrying and spinning the canvas and all that and it was so um fun and freeing for people that she

22:00

thought that would probably make a good book so it kind of went that path and and then it sort of got infused with

22:06

just the way I think about life and you know let's not worry let's make it fun

22:11

you know let's do that so that kind of got filled into the book as well that does kind of seem like the root of how

22:19

you operate you kind of boil it down to that creating a creative space for

22:24

yourself definitely that's a beautiful way to put it and then giving yourself the freedom

22:31

to mess it up to muck it up to try something new it's like for me that's the best part but something always comes

22:38

out of it you know or you can cut it up or you can just like if you just get something going you know

22:44

before you know it something starts to build and you just respond and move and go and move and that's the only way I

22:50

know how to do anything I watched your seesaw episode last night to kind of get my head in the lid whistle Zone

22:59

it was good it was really good oh thanks you know I didn't know what I was doing

23:04

at all I just had like a little camera you know out there and I just here we are this is our little life so yeah it

23:10

was fun well that's gonna kind of be in my mind the Crux of our talk is putting

23:18

ourselves in positions that you know trying new things or whatever and and how that just organically sends us down

23:25

a path that is good and exciting I think it's good I think you have to work with

23:31

what you love you know use your own brain and you know we all have a different way of processing so if you

23:36

just work with how your brain works and off you go you know to kind of invite yourself up and just see what happens

23:43

that's that's my way no where did that where did that come

23:48

from I mean is that from childhood is that how you were raised yeah I guess so I never really thought about where it

23:54

came from but you know my mom was a high school teacher creative writing in English and she was an artist and we

24:01

went to art festivals with her in the summer when she wasn't teaching and she was a painter and a sculptor and just a

24:09

great fun mom she did all of our sets you know painted our sets for our school plays and like she was that Mom so I

24:16

just it was all around us my grandmother we had a piano my grandmother played piano my sister just could draw like

24:22

great funny animals and stuff that's just what we did so it isn't like you're like the lone creative duck in the

24:28

family it almost seems like you come from a tribe of creatives a bunch of ducks a bunch of creative dogs

24:38

well that's cool I mean I I mean that's the I that's the ideal for any of us artists I think a lot of artists kind of

24:45

feel like they are an alien in their tribe of family members like you know who we have to escape and make this this

24:52

return to or this Evolution into what we want to create in life and kind of strip

24:58

this baggage but you didn't come into this with that kind of creative baggage it sounds like I didn't honestly I

25:05

didn't I know my husband John who's a great artist was always an artist as a kid his dad was very worried for him

25:12

that he could make a good living the joke is why don't you be an orthodontist like they'd whisper in his ear when he was sleeping orthodontist you know

25:20

but because they loved him and I wanted him to succeed in life and his dad was kind of a business guy so they steered

25:29

him away even from Fine Art and he's agree in a degree in graphic design so there is this pressure because they want

25:35

you to succeed you know but I didn't I did not have that pressure okay so they

25:41

were in encouraging a creative field that you could also make a paycheck at basically is one here and you say that

25:47

that they endorsed that like they realized yeah he's he's a we've got a creative kid here and we're not going to

25:53

turn him into an orthodontist but at least they cut a half endorsed a creative life

25:59

exactly and it was all out of love you know they just want him to do well but I

26:05

can see you know just I have that experience knowing his family but then he did well you know he's and then his

26:11

dad would just light up like oh my God okay the kids are gonna make it like he was so proud of us having two artists

26:18

somehow you know putting it together we know I mean half the time we were like we don't know what the heck we're doing

26:24

but we just kept showing up and somehow you know we were able to pay the bills barely sometimes but we did it

26:31

so he began to trust that we were on the right track and you know as as a dad wanting the best he endorsed our Crazy

26:40

Life the parents are okay when they feel like okay maybe the kid isn't going to be

26:45

coming and asking for a loan every couple of weeks they could feel like okay they can stand on their own two feet

26:51

exactly exactly and maybe they'll take care of us one day you know there's that right you know we won't have to take

26:58

care of them forever maybe it'll all work out but it worked out so you said John went on for graphic design but

27:03

yourself were you in the Arts did you go to college to be an artist so that's I think another reason now

27:09

that we're talking about it that I didn't have that I didn't have a degree I mean I always made art I studied art

27:15

my mom made art my sister like my granddad painted everybody was just doing it but I did not get a degree so I

27:23

sought out knowledge my reading and traveling and art museums and books and you know I was always interested went to

27:29

museums all that stuff but I did not have a degree and I don't like that lifelong learner yeah that enthusiasm is

27:37

what led you down the path to the next next thing exactly so you met John and

27:44

the two of you were working for for Nickelodeon is that how you guys met and that's yeah we was kind of

27:50

yeah and he was so stinking cute and I was like hmm this guy's pretty cute you know you know how you do yeah

27:58

I really like good legs and he's also I was an athlete you know in college he had a running scholarship I told my

28:04

girlfriends if he wears shorts tomorrow because we were in this film class that's how we really met and then we got

28:10

our jobs okay and I said if you wear shorts tomorrow and he just got good legs I'm going in you know I'm gonna see

28:16

about this guy I didn't know him at all and he I remember he would be sitting in

28:21

class drawing everyone like he was drawing I could tell you know how somebody's staring at and you kind of know I could tell he was drawing me and

28:28

then but he was drawing her and him and everyone so there was that weird kind of cool thing so your spark was really yeah

28:34

he wore shorts the next day and awesome legs and I'm like oh I've got to

28:40

find out more about this guy and the cool thing about that was in this film

28:45

class it was uh put on by the state of Florida to train people for films coming here you know it was a big new business

28:52

in this area and like Universal Studios and all that that all that jazz all right right because you're in Winter

28:57

Park near Disney so yeah Universal all that stuff theme parks out there so

29:04

um we this was actually really a good memory we were tasked to make a third of

29:10

a feature film this is how this class went and it was backed by Steven Spielberg it was there was special money

29:17

given to it by Africa who the president was then that's terrible Rhino bacon or something so it was this really

29:23

interesting thing that we got to be a part of this all these professionals teaching us how to actually make a film

29:28

and we made a film a third of a film so we had to find our locations and I'm out looking for locations and all these

29:34

weird streets and finding props and I found this cool building and it was all

29:40

um it was just weird and covered in plants and I was looking through the

29:46

window and I saw this cool old horse and it was made out of plaster a life-size

29:51

sort of a you know carousel horse made out of plaster and I thought it was so cool so the next day at school I told

29:57

him I found this place and it's got this horse and oh my God it's the coolest building it's got old barn doors and

30:03

he's like you're describing my studio that's my horse I made that oh my gosh I

30:08

was like oh my gosh exactly is this is more than just the physical

30:15

attraction this is like this is like the creative soulmate that you're meeting up

30:21

with at this point in time yeah it was great because I thought he's super talented and he's fun and funny and

30:26

smart he's all the stuff so yeah that's how we met yeah well I guess I had made the leap incorrectly that that you guys

30:33

met at Nickelodeon so then how did the two of you end up there from college so

30:39

we got out of this film training program you know this and it was months and months long and then we the classes were

30:46

held on universal the lot where the sound stages were and

30:51

then right about then Nickelodeon came in they had just built you know their big sound stages in Florida on that lot

30:58

and it was just a fluke thing like one guy that was in our class this big tall guy and he's like if you go right now to

31:05

that Sound Stage over there and tell him you're willing to do anything they're gonna hire you and we literally just

31:12

walked over there and said hi-tailed it and they're saying they said do you know

31:18

how to paint like they were stressed out do you know how to paint can you spray paint a fish and I say yes and they go

31:24

okay here's a bunch of foam this big and uh we need you to spray paint four fish and blah blah blah blah blah and I was

31:30

like okay so there it was and we worked there and that started there that was it it was

31:37

just like a total fluke and then I'm like telling other people oh you guys come on over they need people like just

31:43

come come right now you know and and let's yeah and we all started working there it's a real organic way of doing

31:50

things it's like you know you're you're in college you're doing the film clusters you got the art thing and then

31:55

it's like we just kind of like whatever thing gets shaking in front of our face we go I'm going in that direction and

32:01

then that takes you down a path and then you're going in that direction so yeah working there that laid the groundwork

32:08

for working in a professional kind of creative type job did it give you the

32:14

awareness of kind of the vision of where you wanted to go personally yourselves like where your life wanted to go from

32:20

there I think it did I think it was so creative it was so much fun like we were

32:26

just this band of kind of idiots we called the art department and we were sort of off to the side of course and

32:32

then we had to create all the sets and the props and the you know paint everything and just we had to make the

32:38

whole you know backdrop for everything that they were filming and it was just like kids TV so it was fun and yeah but

32:44

we just had so much fun but we started salvaging like parts of the sets you know they're built with Flats these

32:50

little chunks of wood you know yeah and we'd take them out of the garbage and we'd like paint on them and then we we

32:56

learned how to do all the scenic paintings so we would just kind of use that in our paintings and we were sort

33:02

of this tribe of artists that we're all making our own stuff but we were working at Nickelodeon so it just kind of built

33:09

ah and we're still friends we have a lot of friends that are still from that time like great people I have a background in

33:16

theater I was a theater major in college and had to do a lot of we had to take

33:21

all different disciplines behind the theater even though I knew I wanted to be a performing major I still spent a

33:27

lot of time in the scene shop and having to do all all that stuff so I following you that whole story I totally get it

33:34

we'd do a play and after the play we'd all ripped the muslin off the flats and it would be like tacked to my apartment

33:39

room walls you know what I mean yeah yeah right I love that you did that

33:46

it makes perfect sense because you have that great personality and you're so easy with just communicating and you

33:52

know that's that comes through it's certainly definitely like you do what you like and then the path kind of just

33:59

unfolds itself that's it so for you what led you out of of Nickelodeon and kind

34:06

of being your own person kind of determining your your own paths as as an

34:11

artist you know that was um kind of an interesting path too because at the same time John's family had

34:18

started a big Warehouse with what do we have back then at one point we had 42 artists or something in a gallery in the

34:25

front but anyway so we had a big Studio that we went to after work and we would be painting all night and we shared this

34:31

big space and so we were always doing our art all the way along and we would

34:37

do the occasional art show and then we were starting to get collectors it was like all this like oh my God this is

34:44

this could work this could work and we just you know so it's like the balance started where things were kind of here

34:51

and then you guys with this network of people in the art Department you were

34:56

building a tribe over here and this this studio started to show you that there

35:01

was life outside of Nickelodeon yes because we could do our own ideas that

35:09

was the thing about Nickelodeon we were doing somebody else's script and ideas it was so fun but we you just thought

35:15

gosh you know let's do what we want let's paint what we want let's so we we

35:20

finally took these risks and said no because we'd get another show yeah most

35:26

people would like kill to get that show you know we were doing well right you know working hard and the stability of

35:32

the paycheck is very intriguing and enticing and gives a lot of security yeah but it was fun

35:40

and learning it was always yeah a lot to do but then we said if let's just put

35:45

that energy into our stuff and see what happens and slowly it just click you

35:51

know big sale oh my God oh my God you know and you go okay and then we used to just do Florida shows and I remember

35:57

when we got you know all ballsy and we said we're gonna go all the way across the country to Kansas City and then we

36:04

did it okay and it was great you know we made all this money which was not a lot of money but it was like oh oh my God so

36:10

now we're on the road now we're you know further and further out in the country figuring it out yeah the world just

36:17

opened wide the possibilities became Limitless exactly it's yeah you know

36:23

that that Starry Eyed every time you were in the van on your way to a show it's like so fun it's got new work and

36:29

you're just like seeing your friends I mean it's a great adventure you know we love this life it's a fun life it's an

36:36

adventurous life and it's a good reminder when it seems

36:42

like like the schedule gets packed full and there it's when you start squeezing

36:48

yourself in with so many commitments that those Adventures those trips when

36:54

they start losing they're kind of like Wonder and they're what am I going to

36:59

come across you know in this part of the country or whatever then it starts to

37:04

feel like work and it starts to feel like you have to come back to your roots of looking for those those opportunities

37:11

for inspiration to jump in I totally agree and there's definitely times when it's work like setting up and it's hot

37:18

and you've been driving and you stayed up you know until super late finishing stuff before you know we we used to be

37:26

really late people we started we've gotten a little smarter over the years like we just say okay let's you know not

37:31

wear ourselves to the Bone and then get on the road for three days and that you know but anyway

37:37

it's the Wonder is there no you just have to say Okay instead of just like

37:42

barreling down the road I see a sign for the Kentucky Bluegrass Hall of Fame I

37:48

think maybe we should stop and like okay Jazz yourself back up make yourself

37:54

available to those surprises yeah because that's the fun right right well we were in Sun Valley last uh August and

38:03

first time we'd ever been there and during the whole entire show we keep looking up and we're seeing these people

38:08

paragliding off the side of the big mountain Hills or whatever right and

38:13

Renee keeps turning to me and she's saying we've got to do that on Monday I look at her I'm like are you kidding me I cannot believe that you would feel

38:21

brave enough or would want to you know do that I said you realize we have to like hold on to this thing and we have to like run as if we're gonna run right

38:28

off the edge of the hill or later on that's going to take us take us off she was all for it so she actually had me

38:35

talked into it I was reluctantly willing to give it a shot but they were closed

38:40

on the Monday and we weren't there still so we couldn't do it so maybe next where we are in in Sun Valley this year so I

38:46

think she's going to want us to factor in either a day before or a couple days after to stick around and give that one

38:52

a shot see I love that you were willing to do it see that's the whole thing you know God I've been wanting to do that

38:58

forever paragliding like we did we did a whole show season where we did every zip line

39:03

that we came to like we had we had a plan and uh-huh Dear John he John hates

39:09

Heights he does not like heights

39:16

and he's like do we really have to go to another I'm like honey it's it's the blah blah blah this one it's so special

39:21

so anyway we he is a good sport but the paragliding thing he somehow always man

39:27

oh I missed the turn like he doesn't he found a way to he had a way to even keep

39:34

me off of it because I think I even if I go to the edge of a building you know up

39:39

high I'll go right to the edge and uh he'll like oh God can you come back and come closer you know he's really not a

39:47

height guy well I didn't know it at that point but I was probably taking a little

39:52

bit of your advice which is to always be willing to say yes yeah

39:59

I mean that's one of your things right to say yes that got me everywhere I've gone and I I'll so many yeses I said I

40:07

was like I have no clue well how to do this thing I just said yes to like that's how I got into teaching

40:15

online and I remember agreeing to it and I'm thinking I have no clue how this

40:20

works I guess there and they flew to my studio and set up stuff and I'm like okay here we go I just started doing

40:28

what I do and I was like I guess that worked out and then it did it was a

40:33

beautiful partnership you know for I don't know six seven years we haven't done much since covid but yeah I had no

40:39

clue you know but but the thing about art you know art teaches us you don't

40:45

necessarily know the outcome so you gotta just step in and then you react to the next thing like you don't learn

40:51

stuff or I don't all in one gulp like I don't know but if I just take each step I get a little bit of information and

40:57

then you know I can get there it's problem solving right it's like if we chart our own course of okay this is

41:04

what I want to learn and this is how I'm going to learn it and this is what I'm going to learn by the end of it it's

41:09

like no you have to learn it by experiencing it and allowing the discoveries to come exactly it's got to

41:17

be open enough that because you you don't know what you don't know but you got to be willing to walk down the path

41:25

and if you hate it you just don't go that way you know you change yeah yeah well then you can say no yeah I mean I

41:32

mean you're not saying that you you have to say yes to every aspect of the

41:37

process you still know what's right and what's not right for you but it's putting yourself in a vulnerable place

41:44

where you might look stupid yeah where you might not know everything and you

41:50

might have to admit to somebody tell me more about this definitely um definitely

41:55

all the time oh my God I'm not sure am I

42:00

you know but but what's that that's just life and it's not like who really cares you know if you look foolish or you

42:07

didn't then somebody can help you and they feel good about oh I know how to help this person or you know it's not so

42:12

bad it is a gift yeah maybe it's it is a gift to somebody to allow them

42:19

to help you along exactly you know what I mean we don't always have to be the one

42:24

who is in the know or how I mean there's no there's no reciprocal part of the

42:31

relationship then if it's all what somebody's doing for you exactly that's a great point isn't it it's like that's

42:38

how we manage in life you know and then we help each other and we just I don't know I guess I guess

42:45

I've just looked stupid and not known what I was doing for so long I just doesn't doesn't bother me that much

42:52

so you've given up caring about it or have you never really cared about that whole feeling of how somebody would

42:59

judge or interpret it I think when I was a kid in school and I'd raise my hand when I wasn't like staring out the

43:04

window like daydreaming and drawing all my stuff and I get it wrong I would just like oh and never want to do that again

43:11

I don't want to raise my hand I really wasn't paying attention I don't know what I'm saying so I did for a long time

43:16

like kind of not you know reveal that I was didn't have a didn't really know but somewhere along

43:24

the line that kind of stuff will stop you from doing something that you want to try so

43:30

it totally does might as well just try it you know and just it feels sometimes you

43:36

do feel stupid but then there's a bravery to that or an honesty to that and then like you say people will come

43:41

you can ask for help you can screw up you can ruin five paintings whatever you

43:49

know you take on commissions you're like oh yeah I can do that and then it's like this gut wrenching hard process

43:54

sometimes you know trying to think through someone else's brain and then you just say all right I don't I'm not

44:00

doing commissions like that anymore I have a whole way I do it I'm gonna do what I want to make if you liked it

44:06

great see I just have to learn I we said yes to a project years ago

44:14

and it was completely out of our comfort zone it went from creating a single

44:19

piece that you know you could hold in your hands and have it be like on a table or mantle to being something that

44:26

was hundreds of pieces being assembled and hanging from the ceiling and so I

44:32

worked with people who knew what they were doing and like Architects and designers and they gave me all the specs

44:39

and all this but when it came to the assembling of the piece I still felt like we needed to participate in the

44:48

positioning the glass on the structure the way we wanted it to so we thought we

44:53

had worked out all the bugs we'd gotten like 75 of the money for this massive project

44:59

we show up they have the the scaffolds in the air but the structures were

45:06

touching the scaffolds and there was no other positioning that the scaffolds

45:11

could be placed huh so we're in a position where we can't hang the glass

45:17

because you can't have metal scaffolds leading up against it

45:23

so I had that moment in time where I thought to myself we have said yes to

45:29

something that we are not going to be able to do and it was the scariest

45:34

feeling I have ever had ever yes I hate that feeling but but it worked out it

45:40

worked out I thought it worked out people who who were in The know who knew what to do jumped in came up with an

45:48

alternative it wasn't easy and I tell you we felt so proud of ourselves to have solved that puzzle and it made us

45:54

hungry to solve other puzzles just like that that is you know what I mean Greatest Story exactly because now your

46:00

brain says oh it didn't stop the the solve came and

46:06

now you know the song almost always the solve comes that's that's like this Faith or

46:13

something it's like okay it's gonna work out maybe not the way I pictured it maybe you know I need 12 people to help

46:19

but it that that's the faith of being an artist I think is that it always somehow

46:26

works out like how did we make a living all those years I don't even know but somehow some crazy person would buy you

46:34

know some big piece on here's a check in the mail from the guy that's like oh my God how do we keep getting away with

46:39

this stuff you know and then you start to trust yeah it keeps working yeah that's that moment of never saying quit

46:46

showing up and then never saying quit exactly so and those decisions and those

46:52

experiences inform future decisions because now you have the knowledge and

46:59

you can trust that somehow it will get worked out see that's the thing like you

47:05

can always pull back and say oh man I I don't know you know and then some great

47:10

thing will come I mean it happens over and over and over doesn't it in life yeah yeah so that's it how did that

47:19

concept even start to to to come into Focus for you I mean was this something

47:25

that you have had your whole life or is it something that was there a particular

47:30

defining point where that was a realization that that was big for you I

47:35

think it was in our early days of being artists dry I drove this

47:41

ugliest black truck you ever saw it had hail damage and rust and I could see the ground under my feet I mean it was

47:47

horrible and we we literally did eat like beans and ramen and all the stuff

47:53

but we were so excited about what we were doing it just all seemed fine you know but we would yeah we would have

48:00

these moments like I don't know how we're gonna we just paid for a bunch of

48:05

shows and I don't know how we're gonna pay the electric you know we were uh scared and then

48:12

something would happen like the check in the mail or some wonderful person would come along and say do you still have

48:18

that painting and it would work out yeah so then we started paying attention I was like honey let's look okay right now

48:25

I don't know how this is gonna work but let's remind ourselves when the weird thing just happens and it works

48:31

let's pay attention to it and let's like write it down let's like make a list like because I have no clue how we're

48:37

gonna pull this off and then it when it would work out we would talk about it can you believe that

48:42

that just happened like oh my God we are so lucky it's like a miracle you know what I like what you're describing

48:48

though it is almost like a scientist's brain where you're like okay this

48:53

happened and we're gonna be in this position again let's create the structure

48:58

so that when we're in this position again that we we have tools lined up to

49:04

keep us on track yeah to remind us that oh my God but then it became this really

49:10

fun game it's like okay let's let's just let this roll out and see how it's gonna

49:15

work out and then we would just be kind of on the lookout for these crazy little wonderful Kismet things that we all you

49:22

know all artists have it or some you know yeah Chuck breaks down and someone's selling a thing or you know

49:28

all that cool stuff that just just works out so the stories yeah

49:34

we all have from being on the road well back to kind of like this nurturing of

49:40

kind of like the the goal is creating a creative space to create the work which the work ends

49:48

up being the revenue source for us so it's this complicated mess of things so

49:55

it sounds like you mechanically create structure around putting yourself in an

50:01

environment that makes you stress-free or makes you happy makes you feel

50:07

creative can you talk a little bit about your routine or your structure and how that works with create creating stuff

50:13

you know there's a there's so many funny things I've learned over the years one of the things was deadlines for us

50:19

deadlines were always happening because there's a show deadline and there's all this stuff but our Gallery but the

50:25

deadline forced us to push through and find the solutions you know finish the

50:31

body of work and get it so we always have had deadlines I think so yeah but

50:37

the other piece of that is making it um I'm looking at my little

50:43

art fort out here it's so enjoyable like I have every Art Supply that I'm

50:52

interested in I get like right now I'm painting with these big fat oil sticks and they're just creamy and buttery and

50:58

I get excited about it I I just get them and play with them and you know I just I

51:04

don't I don't know I think the setting yourself up to play giving yourself the time and the space to just like okay I'm

51:11

going in there I have no clue what I'm gonna do even though I need to finish three paintings and I got a commission but I'm

51:17

not thinking of it that way I'm thinking I'm just going to make see what happens and then off I go and then I start to

51:23

solve it I don't know if that makes sense but it has to be a pleasure for your brain you know let me see if I

51:30

understand correctly that so you obviously have work that you have

51:36

committed to a collector or a gallery or a show and those are things that all of

51:43

us can find that when we have to actually step up and start working on it even if

51:50

it's something we do regularly and routinely it's when there's that outcome that we've committed to it kind of gets

51:57

in the way of us being able to do it freely and joyfully but it sounds like you start with like a

52:05

freeing kind of entry point like you will create work that is not within a

52:11

desired outcome and then when that starts rolling you can kind of shift gears into the other thing is that is

52:16

that what you were saying that's kind of it it's like that's how I know how to prime the pump that's how I know to get

52:22

myself in there and move in my hands and then all the stuff starts to work that's I just set myself up to play

52:30

knowing that once I get sort of engaged and excited and off I go then it all

52:36

works but you know that that little inertia you know to get back in there after

52:41

you've been off to a show and have fun and blah blah you come back you're like oh now I gotta get back in there or if

52:47

you set yourself up or you work on in my case I can work on three paintings at a time you know and I just get started and

52:53

I layer and I you know I just know how to make my brain find it fun so I try

53:00

and do it that way and then once you're engaged you know once you really are into it hours and hours go by and off

53:07

you go like you're just something works out because for people who get kind of

53:12

stuck where they just can't get the motivation it kind of seems like if you

53:19

physically just start moving the pain around or you know messing with some

53:25

molten glass and not care what it turns into that that can kind of get you out

53:30

of your own way that's that's for me that's everything for John too like if

53:36

it's playful and oh my God this cool thing he's making sculpture right now

53:41

for a jazz fest and he's like having okay best time like he's just having a ball like oh my God this weird

53:48

thing this head I made for that fit on this better and can you believe this nail was like the perfect old weird nail

53:53

it just you know these little Kismet things if it's that's all it is it's like one big set of kismet play if you

54:01

set yourself up for it yeah um I come from I wouldn't say my immediate family but an extended family

54:07

of kind of cynics and when we talk about stuff like meant to be or Kismet or getting really

54:15

enthused about if the nail fits in perfectly into the sculpture they kind

54:20

of look at this kind of person and be like something's weird about that dude

54:26

or there's something inauthentic about it it's it's like there's some strange still I mean is this something you have

54:33

ever experienced or familiar with this kind of concept yeah I'm familiar and I just I just think there's different

54:40

brains you know there's The Logical great people and they hang with the logical great people and someone like me

54:46

comes along maybe they go that's nuts but they can see that you're having fun and they respond to that or they don't

54:52

that's fine or you know you get your people you don't when I teach you know I teach workshops yeah there's so much of

54:59

that that happens in the world like they come in and everyone's got that story you know we all have it where someone

55:06

made fun of them or someone put them down or an art teacher said that's not how you do it stop it or you can't sing

55:11

your voice is bad blah blah blah we all get this outside critic and then we turn

55:17

it as an inside critic you know I'm not good at this I'm not an artist I can't draw how many of us have that story

55:23

right and it turns into these self-limiting beliefs like that it'll shape people's lives for years before

55:30

they can like come to terms with that and they don't allow themselves to create so I just try and make a space

55:36

when I teach so it's like creating is what we're set up for like this is why

55:41

we're here like it's supposed to be you know you're making a beautiful meal or you're raising a child or you're

55:46

building all that stuff is creativity in my brain so let's just play don't cut

55:52

yourself off from that that's like who you are like you can paint that Sky orange or blue or I don't care green

55:59

doesn't matter let's just do it and then they get this oh I can just do it and then you're like yeah this is supposed

56:05

to be playful you know then you can tighten it up at the end and all that crap if you want but

56:11

Just Keep It Wide Open just be be like a kid so like living creatively and living

56:17

freely as as a creative type person making work like this does that

56:23

inherently make us an artist or does being an artist involve that next step

56:28

of the commentary or or having it have to mean something or have a message can

56:34

we be artists who create things with like extreme craftsmanship and Joy or

56:41

whatever you know what I mean by that yeah I think so and I think everyone's different you know somebody's going to

56:47

get great satisfaction out of the most fantastically the realistic painting

56:52

that is just Exquisite mouth-wateringly perfect you know it depends on who you

56:58

are of course but I think there's a great joy and freedom just by creating I

57:05

think we should allow ourselves that and then the rest is the rest you know if it sells if you make a career of it doesn't

57:11

matter but you should let yourself write Let Yourself Play Let Yourself paint the

57:17

fence I just painted our fence orange and red big Stripes you know I don't care if my neighbor thinks it's crazy

57:23

yeah it's okay you know I love it so just let yourself do it it speaks more

57:29

to an internal kind of quality of life internally driven than having to define

57:36

something from an external place of what you know what maybe an intellectual brain would put towards exactly you know

57:43

what I mean like they might say have to describe it or Define it Define it right

57:48

and that so much with art I found is you can have a big idea and people they

57:54

bring to the work what they bring to the work so I don't even try and explain it

57:59

anymore I mean some of my stuff is real funny the old mixed media I love doing that it doesn't really matter you know what I

58:06

guess it does it doesn't I don't know I just I think it's important just to create and then it people respond how

58:13

they respond you know I just have found that my collectors have

58:19

some kind of response to the playfulness some kind of like they just are like my

58:26

people it's not everybody but they get it they they're always kind of excited like what the hell is she gonna do this

58:32

time like I'm the first person at her Booth because who knows what the heck she's going to come up with because I'm not that predictable you know I just

58:40

show up well I resonate with with what you're describing because I feel like sometimes

58:46

Renee and I when we're talking about our work we feel like there's an energy behind it that is unspoken and is more

58:54

than just Visual and there is an attraction to certain collectors that

58:59

they just walk up and they say I get it makes me happy and for us that makes us

59:06

happy to know that somebody else kind of gets the intention that's it for me

59:11

that's it it's like you'll find your people you know and they respond to your

59:16

your intellect they can respond to whatever it is that you're serving up you know and so my people respond to

59:22

this weird joyful let's try it Vibe you know but I have to say I also am so

59:30

committed in my brain like this is a real important thing in my life this is a real practice that I continue we try to

59:37

learn and try and grow and make mistakes so I can expand it you know so I'm not just like willy-nilly

59:44

throwing crap out there I mean I have to dial it in I have to finish it I have to

59:50

feel it looks you know the way I want it to look in the end but there's a lot of that play in there that resonates it's

59:56

still you know obvious I got that balance because the the Seesaw can tip

1:00:02

too far to One Direction where it's all about the outcome and then the work

1:00:08

suffers yeah or you get bored like I don't know if it works for people but I

1:00:14

don't want to be bored like I don't I actually really want to think of it as work it's got to be like really tickling

1:00:21

my brain I gotta have little surprises going on I gotta feed my weird brain

1:00:26

that's that's just you know I love color I love color against color like if I can

1:00:31

set myself up for oh my God that's freaking awesome you know that you could find another shade of orange yes your

1:00:38

life would be amazing right I love Orange it's the truth and it just

1:00:43

I was thinking about this the other day because I have so much color and I'm looking out my backyard there's color

1:00:48

there's big striped balls that are lanterny things there's just color and I

1:00:53

thought I wonder if my cones or whatever in my eyeballs like just have some extra

1:00:59

weird thing about them because I am like delighted by color all day

1:01:06

every day like I seek it out and then I've been doing all this Lighting in our

1:01:11

backyard for you know in the trees and the thing and I just look at the way the lights hitting that leaf look at the way

1:01:17

the lights hitting that color look at the change of it just sends my brain into I just love it so maybe my eyes are

1:01:26

different or something leave that no I I am feeling 100 here we've Renee and I

1:01:31

have had people like get this Museum where we did the um installation for were they did they write about us as

1:01:38

being coloristas and so there is something about that about color

1:01:45

and you and I don't have words for it right now but we're looking at each other and we're getting each other

1:01:52

isn't it joyful and isn't it like part of the reason that you love what you do is because of this weird

1:01:59

thing that's happening with the color and it's just so joyful and I worry about the folks who don't have it

1:02:07

I think oh my God they're just missing did they and I'm always saying oh my God look at the light

1:02:13

people are like oh whatever with the light but I just it just zings my brain

1:02:18

whatever that is I gotta tell you a few years ago we had a designer come in our booth and saying the new color on the

1:02:26

scene and I was getting really excited to hear about this she says is gray oh

1:02:33

great I will follow me everyone full disclosure we're using gray in our work

1:02:39

but I'm it's it's not joyful isn't that funny and it's everywhere

1:02:46

like our house is so nice but uh but but the power of a gray or the power of a

1:02:53

neutral Is So Exciting in painting because it makes the other guys sing so

1:02:59

it's like oh I literally I love myself a good gray like a warm gray and cooler I'm all about that but but yeah it's

1:03:05

just to live with gray I don't oh I don't think so read this gray that but

1:03:10

then you know they have our Pops of color on their walls then uh life is good and life is good that's good that's

1:03:16

why Art's so important yeah so you've talked about creating a that

1:03:23

when people feel stuck or when people are are are challenged with you know

1:03:29

getting inspired that another component to creating that space is actually being

1:03:34

in a physical space with physical people around you who share that kind of

1:03:41

like-mindedness because that's where Sparks start to fly I I find that kovid

1:03:47

really sent us off to our our our little homes and things really went to online

1:03:54

we started to look online at each other and communicating online and it's such a

1:04:01

virtual space that that physical space needs to kind of come back if we if we

1:04:07

don't want to stay stagnant I agree with that that's why when we first got to go back to shows like yeah

1:04:14

it was so exciting and the the collectors were like on fire and the

1:04:20

artists were so happy to see each other like that is a component and I do think

1:04:25

if I was to give somebody advice which you know I always say I'm not a I'm not good at

1:04:32

anything like I'm just you know Forrest gumping my way along but For Young Artists honestly I I don't think of

1:04:39

myself as an authority at all I'm just doing my little way but but you're sharing your experiences which I think

1:04:46

that is that's what we need to do in life is just to share share yeah I think

1:04:52

so too but certainly my way is not the right way or the oh you know the only way there's I don't have that I don't like that actually yeah I don't like the

1:04:59

onus of thinking I know what I'm doing but I do think because our family John's

1:05:05

family and we have had this shared warehouse space with 23 artists right now and we've had it for Going on 30

1:05:11

years his heart his mom of course is an artist so I think uh when I meet these

1:05:17

great young artists and I say well if you're moving you know they're maybe to a new place I'm like search out

1:05:22

something like that because you might really gain so much from being in a

1:05:28

shared work environment artist environment because you support each other's shows and work and you learn like when I get stuck when I work

1:05:34

downtown I have a building in the back of our house but then we have the downtown Studio you can just poke around

1:05:41

the studio and see everybody doing all these wonderful different things and your brain just gets you know inspired

1:05:48

again if you get started you know okay is that a space you used to work in

1:05:54

and then you kind of can float back and forth or is is the you call it the art

1:05:59

Fort yeah the forest is the art fort out your back out your back window there is

1:06:04

that where you are primarily creating your work yeah I I like the art Fort best because we have a dog and I love

1:06:11

the dog and it's right on the water it's this funny little building that's just fun and it's all colorful of course

1:06:18

um and I like to be outside that's my nature so I pull my big tannings outside I have easels out there I work on I have

1:06:25

it all set up I mean I can make really big artwork in this tiny space or

1:06:31

downtown it's called McRae art studios where there's 24 of us and it's a

1:06:36

beautiful space for workshops and it's a big building it's air-conditioned it's all the nice stuff you know nicer than

1:06:42

our old buildings then I can work there and I also made recently this big

1:06:47

storage place to put storage behind so I just have all big walls and I can really go

1:06:53

to town on big stuff or big paper so I've got uh room to experiment uh on

1:07:01

super big stuff down there and then I've got my everyday I have a whole set of

1:07:06

all my oil paints at both places it's kind of crazy but I can you know I've

1:07:12

got both places I can just dip right in cool it serves different purposes different functions and the community is

1:07:20

so wonderful okay and now the classes that you teach

1:07:25

and the workshops that you do I happen to see a few clips of those they seem pretty like well produced and stuff they

1:07:33

seem like a top-notch type type situation can you talk about that and tell us how that came about yeah that

1:07:40

was um I met this wonderful artist her name's Carlos on Heim and I was teaching

1:07:45

a workshop out west which is where she lives and she was in my class and she was in the back of the class and she was

1:07:53

really quiet and just cool you know Vibe and I would look over her shoulder and go oh my God I love what she's doing

1:08:00

like she's just doing her this whole she has just a wonderful Charming interesting way so that's when we first

1:08:05

met and then somewhere along the line she and her husband who is brilliant his

1:08:10

name is Steve Sondheim and he's a photographer and all this stuff he had the skills to sort of start filming her

1:08:17

and he would just film her hands and then she would speak and she was a little camera shy in the beginning and

1:08:23

so they just built this online business way before anyone else was doing it I

1:08:29

mean okay she was and so they slowly built an online sort of a university and

1:08:34

she they would hand pick artists that they felt sort of reflected their whatever

1:08:40

and so they're very Integrity filled they're very smart they're just brilliant and so like I said the first

1:08:47

time would you be interested in filming and I was like I don't know what how to do it but sure let's try it and they

1:08:54

flew in you set up the cameras yeah I said yes and they should and I said okay I'm just gonna make this thing and I'll

1:09:00

talk through it and that's what we did and he you know the production value is all the two of them are really smart and

1:09:07

he's got three cameras and the right lighting and it's you know super well edited and they just have a high quality

1:09:15

there's just a great they're just a great couple yeah so I got to hook up with them

1:09:21

pretty early on you know and is that a regular thing that you film classes with

1:09:27

them or is that something that was kind of done like you did it and it's it's archived or whatever so it's archived so

1:09:33

most all of my classes are now available as self-study so people buy them they

1:09:39

have them all for forever um same with all the the teachers there Carla you know included so it goes both

1:09:47

ways but you also teach a live class like it's a new class and everyone takes it together and this whole online

1:09:52

community it's so well done and I just got lucky to you know hook up with people who are really top-notch so but

1:10:00

um we were doing about I was doing about two classes every year spring and fall and then did a couple year-long classes

1:10:07

together you know that we just did different stuff they're always like stretching and growing and they've built

1:10:14

a really great business you know they're they're they're smart when you say classes is it like if if you did like

1:10:19

spring and Fall Would it be like multiple segments to a bigger package

1:10:25

yeah the way it worked for us is that I would come up with an idea for a class

1:10:31

and we would break it down into say six lessons or ten lessons and then it got

1:10:37

to where I would go out and film there because they have this whole studio set up and we would talk it through and you

1:10:43

know they're really good at you know they have great information and then you'd break it down into lessons and

1:10:48

you'd film each lesson and then you package that and you buy that class so gosh I have so many I have quite a few

1:10:56

big ball blooms was the Super popular one with the big messy flower paintings you know that was a big one but the

1:11:04

essence of still life all these funny little overlapping cloudy strange still lives and gosh I did a lot of the art of

1:11:11

noticing kind of a sketchbooky thing and so yeah but since covet happened I

1:11:18

wasn't flying out there because you know that didn't seem now they're getting like these super well-known Heinrich

1:11:23

dresser this is wonderful you know illustrator who I love like they're just getting

1:11:28

anyone they would ask would want to do it with them I mean they really got a

1:11:34

cool stable of teachers so but I haven't awesome yeah it's

1:11:40

awesome it really is I mean I I recommend all of her classes they're just they're all of her teachers are

1:11:46

really great I have to say really great individuals this grew out of a physical class that you were physically in person

1:11:52

teaching and she was a student in the class have you had any other experiences like that where opportunity is kind of

1:11:59

sprung from the teaching uh yeah I think so like people would

1:12:05

take the Workshops the in-person workshops too or people would take the

1:12:10

online workshops and then one of the gals is like oh I do a series of workshops in Mexico and all over the

1:12:16

different places in the world and I want you to come teach with us and it's a culinary tour as well as a you know that

1:12:23

kind of thing would just spring out of people taking your class or becoming aware of you

1:12:29

it's just all that crazy it just kept unfolding and I said yeah okay yeah let's try let's just see what happened

1:12:37

yeah but one thing that happened a long time ago I was doing St Louis Art Festival and there's a woman named Mary

1:12:43

inglebright she's like um illustrator type but she had a magazine and it was

1:12:50

called Home Companion which sounds very sweet but it's also very focused on

1:12:55

artists and so they came in my booth at St Louis and it was Mary and her editor

1:13:01

and they said we'd like to do an article on you we'll come to your studio and you

1:13:08

know photograph it and all that stuff and I was like great let's do it I've never had that before and they did

1:13:15

and it just went out you know and then all these other people like oh I want you to be in my magazine I want you to

1:13:21

be can you do this can you it just happened because I said yes to Mary and

1:13:26

it was a great experience so you never know right well what are you working on

1:13:31

now any big projects along the way or or you know tell me about that let's see

1:13:37

just today uh we just loaded the van with six paintings that I'm taking to a

1:13:43

gallery close by Gallery zero so that's fun we got that all ready to go you know

1:13:50

big ones like 46 by 48 by 60 and so that's so that'll be delivered today and

1:13:57

then what else are we doing okay John's getting ready for jazz fest and then since I'm not in it I get to like roam

1:14:03

around and eat drink and watch all the music and have fun well we'll be there too for the first time ever

1:14:10

oh Mike you are going to love it I am so

1:14:15

excited but the reputation does precede itself I mean there's a little bit of like the newness makes me like kind of

1:14:22

feel like I'm getting choked off a little bit but I'm trying just to take any present and just put myself there

1:14:29

and just let everything unfold and enjoy everything along the way oh I really

1:14:34

think you're gonna love it it's a different breed like everyone that's there almost it seems has been there

1:14:40

year after year they once they go it's so exciting and they are free to spend we're like the artist the main event you

1:14:48

know is the music and then the food and then the art but while they're scrolling around walking around between the uh all

1:14:54

the music and the goodness there's art I would tell you one thing that we learned I don't know if you probably already know this or how your stuff goes but

1:15:01

because they're in such vacation mode and um we always try and build the

1:15:06

shipping into the price so we can offer free shipping because it's one less they're not gonna take the piece and

1:15:12

carry it around you know the the whole festival sure yeah and that way you just

1:15:17

go free shipping that's the thing I was stressing about was how to handle because I want to capture that

1:15:25

enthusiasm for the work and I don't want them to think about it and think they're going to come back to us like when they

1:15:31

get back from their trip and it's two weeks later I want to capture them get

1:15:36

the whole shipping thing down smooth and they can be on their way and I can

1:15:43

pack everything back in the van and send it to them so that's that's that's the thing with the puzzle we're trying to solve right now good that helps a ton

1:15:50

and you can even put a little sign free shipping so they just know they can enjoy it oh we'll take that and then

1:15:55

they don't have to worry about it shows up at their house when they get back yeah cool I'm looking forward to seeing you guys there

1:16:01

to wrap up here you and John have a very well respected presence out here on the

1:16:08

road I mean a lot of people know the Ripples and

1:16:14

I had an opportunity to talk with some of your dear friends who are involved in

1:16:20

seesaw and you know we are just getting to know each other and my question to

1:16:26

them was is there anything I should know about Lynn going into this conversation

1:16:32

that might make for a good topic and they said Lynn presents to the world and all of her professional ways is who Lynn

1:16:40

genuinely is in private that that is that you are who

1:16:45

you are and I am so inspired by not only you putting your creativity out in the

1:16:52

world for people to Love and Enjoy but fostering and encouraging other people to do the same and making a space for

1:16:59

them so that your light your joy is like a ripple effect and I want to thank you

1:17:05

for that getting to know you and getting to know about your story yeah make me cry that's the nicest thing

1:17:11

thank you so much well I have been struggling I've talked about

1:17:16

this on the podcast dealing with this physical issue my work has felt like

1:17:22

work and I put your podcast episode on um I'll put it in the episode notes to

1:17:29

give her episode a shout out that you did earlier this month uh what was that who was what was that episode Kate

1:17:36

Shepherd and it's called creative genius I was doing the most mundane thing in

1:17:41

the basement organizing and getting stuff ready with packing materials and I found my mood shifting and I

1:17:49

felt so much lighter and the work that we've been making the last few days is

1:17:56

making me happy and happy to put it out there so I want you to know

1:18:02

that this this has really meant a lot to me thank you oh my gosh I can't even

1:18:08

imagine that that is the case thank you so much for saying that that really

1:18:13

means a lot to me that's just a heartwarming what a nice gift to say that thank you

1:18:28

well I thank you so much for being on the show today and I we are gonna have a

1:18:34

good time in New Orleans here next week and so thanks for sitting down with me we are this has been an absolute Joy

1:18:40

thank you you're just brilliant at what you know what you're smart and fun and fun and I relate so much to all of

1:18:49

our struggles together that you guys are sharing and do you like oysters

1:18:54

I don't know and I'm gonna have to say yes because I've never tried them

1:19:01

okay this is gonna have to go on your on your gonna have to try them on my yes list

1:19:06

they're so good like that is like well we're gonna leave in the morning and just drive us straight through so we can

1:19:12

eat oysters at Felix's that night like we love oysters and they have the best

1:19:18

oysters in New Orleans so that's your recommendation is to try those while we're there

1:19:23

oh gosh yes and if you're a little nervous about the raw they have a broiled one that is just okay flipping

1:19:28

awesome the food is not interest with when it comes to food believe me I might try just about anything

1:19:35

you're gonna be happy in New Orleans because their food is you can't get bad food there it's all good it's all good

1:19:42

delicious all right thanks so much Lynn this has been a blast I really appreciate you and a pleasure I

1:19:49

appreciate you too thanks Douglas okay bye-bye bye-bye well Douglas here I am

1:19:55

at the end of your conversation with Lynn Whipple uh expected to comment on something that I haven't heard yet great

1:20:01

talk with Lynn man how inspiring was that yes she's had these opportunities come to her from first of all being an

1:20:08

artist then someone approached her and said hey you should teach a class and the class happens and then this TV

1:20:15

production of teaching a class comes up so anyway the whole thing I'm trying to get to is she does not want to claim to

1:20:20

be an expert on anything that doesn't make her comfortable she just is sharing her experiences for her personally and

1:20:27

if it resonates with somebody else that's awesome but she does not want to be like this is the way for everybody

1:20:33

else I mean she's an expert on Lynn you know and that's inspiring so lean into that so uh the fact that people respond

1:20:41

to her she's an expert on herself so just be that she's an amazing artist and

1:20:46

an amazing human so and knowing yourself and knowing what works for you some people have trouble defining all that

1:20:53

stuff it takes sometimes you know when you come from a tribe of people who are

1:20:59

different if when you're the alien in the tribe it takes a while to shake off all that baggage before you kind of know

1:21:05

who you are individually lint kind of came out of the gate fully formed in that respect she she had this nurturing

1:21:10

tribe of people that were all artists and that just kind of that's that's what produces yeah so I reject that Lynn I

1:21:16

reject you saying that you're not an expert all you have to do is be an expert on yourself and we're just gonna uh take take a little uh piece of that

1:21:23

this week you know I really was genuine when I I wanted to thank her for what

1:21:29

she did for me this week but also you know the ripple effect that her

1:21:35

brightness has on the artist's Community getting ready for this interview I

1:21:41

wanted to re-watch her video that was shown on seesaw last year that was a

1:21:46

project on YouTube that Kina Crow Chris dalquist and Beth bojorski put on that

1:21:51

was a really in entertaining those videos are still up they interviewed some of our favorite folks and there's

1:21:57

some really entertaining talks that are on there well they really showcased artists while we were all in lockdown

1:22:02

are for each other and also for collectors so that they could you know kind of see behind the scenes and see in

1:22:09

people's Studios which are still live you can you can look up seesaw on YouTube and watch their whole series but

1:22:16

anyway I watched the segment with Lynn Whipple and at the end of it Keena

1:22:21

shared a very touching moment she shared that when she wanted to get into the art

1:22:28

show world and transition out of working in TV she was working at Nickelodeon and somebody said you know what you should

1:22:34

reach out to a friend of mine Lynn Whipple and you should ask her for advice Kina reached out to her shared

1:22:41

some of her work and Lynn Whipple they didn't know each other at the time this was back in 2000 or whatever Lynn

1:22:47

responded with this encouragement and this this encouragement is what

1:22:55

propelled Kino forward into her career and look at kina's impact on the world with her work so it's really a ripple

1:23:02

effect of what we do as artists and how we impact others and the creativity that

1:23:08

builds and builds and builds from there and I just think that's such an awesome awesome way to be it is an awesome way

1:23:13

to be and I appreciate you interviewing uh I don't know such inspiring kind of folks it's it's been um it's one of you

1:23:20

you needed a little pick me up so you interviewed Lynn I need a little bit of comfort so I leaned and been it it's

1:23:26

it's nice that we have this community that we can kind of get that kind of comfort and support from so yeah good

1:23:33

times I didn't think we were going to have a podcast here this week Douglas so nice work yeah and I hope you have a

1:23:38

really good trip you've got some really fun things planned between shows and hey I'll check in with you when you get back

1:23:44

absolutely we have some exciting interviews coming up uh Annie bassone promises that she's going to eventually

1:23:50

talk to me so folks that have been asking for fiber artists I promise we're not just kicking the can down she's

1:23:56

kicking my ass with this thing get on the interview it'll be lady we gotta talk well she's a busy lady I mean I

1:24:02

understand this is not an easy thing to make time for but when she does have the time I for one am gonna be so excited to

1:24:10

hear it's high energy she's good people and if we if we talk about it here Douglas maybe we'll put her on the spot

1:24:15

get her to come home oh no she's going to be like oh damn I'm down in anchor I gotta show up

1:24:21

absolutely all right we'll get to it she is very busy we all are all right Douglas thanks again for uh doing this

1:24:26

with me it's been a been a good week and in spite of all the challenges and and we'll see you next time really

1:24:32

appreciate you man thanks for all your work this podcast is brought to you by the

1:24:37

National Association of Independent Artists the website is naiaartists.org also sponsored by

1:24:44

zapplication that's zapplication.org and while you're at it check out Will's website at

1:24:51

willarmstrongart.com and my website at cigarithglass.com be sure to subscribe

1:24:56

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