Comfort Zone/ Keith Grace

Working Artists! You are not alone! Have you ever been at a point in your life where you need the spark of inspiration? Keith Grace http://www.keithgrace.com/ has spent his entire life stepping out of his comfort zone and talks about it on today's episode.  He began his career as an illustrator and graphic editor for newspapers. In partnership with his wife, Shari, they started their own graphic design business while Keith explored his career as a fine artist. Most recently, they uprooted and moved to the mountains of Greenville, SC. In every aspect of their busy lives, the Grace's employ their creativity, all the while stepping outside of their comfort zone.

Visual artists Douglas Sigwarth https://www.sigwarthglass.com/ and Will Armstrong http://www.willarmstrongart.com/ co-host and discuss topics affecting working artists. Each episode is a deep dive into a conversation with a guest artist who shares their unique experiences as an independent professional artist.

PLEASE RATE US AND REVIEW US.......... and SUBSCRIBE to the pod on your favorite streaming app.

SUPPORT THE SHOW
VENMO/ username @independentartistpodcast or through PAYPAL.ME by clicking on this link https://paypal.me/independentartistpod?locale.x=en_US

Email us at independentartistpodcast@gmail.com with conversation topics, your feedback, or sponsorship inquiries.

Facebook https://www.facebook.com/independentartistpodcast
Instagram https://www.instagram.com/independentartistpodcast/
Website https://www.sigwarthglass.com/independentartistpodcast.html
YouTube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHxquKvRx9sI_DuXRLy-tyA
Mailing List  http://eepurl.com/hwQn7b

Sponsors
The National Association of Independent Artists (NAIA). http://www.naiaartists.org/membership-account/membership-levels/
ZAPPlication https://www.zapplication.org

Music  "Walking" by Oliver Lear
Business inquiries at theoliverlear@gmail.com
https://soundcloud.com/oliverlear
https://open.spotify.com/artist/5yAPYzkmK4ZmdbWFLUhRNo?si=i6Y8Uc36QZWIDKIQfT3X

Transcript

0:00
[Music]
0:11
welcome to the independent artist podcast sponsored by the National Association of Independent Artists also
0:18
sponsored by zapplication I'm will Armstrong and I'm a mixed media artist I'm Douglas sigworth glass blower join
0:25
our conversations with professional working artists welcome back to the
0:30
podcast doulas it's nice to see you even though our video is seems to be frozen again but that's fine we'll just uh I
0:38
don't need I don't need to see you I know what you look like you sure do yeah unfortunately three yeah a couple three
0:44
times yeah a handsome fella handsome fell don't don't uh don't integrate yourself like that well what's going on
0:50
with you I know you got a big show coming up um do I is that is that what's happening I saw on your show notes you
0:57
were like do you ever cancel a show because the setup is so unpleasant not
1:03
cancel just choose not to do it yeah just not even apply and I'm like did you
1:09
say that because I'm getting ready to go to Houston it's no secret that that is one of the most unpleasant setups and
1:15
breakdowns in the country so I don't mind I don't mind being loud and proud about that I think they know what they
1:21
have on their hands it's always it's always a challenge how about that it's a dance as one would say yeah
1:29
dance it's a dance at gunpoint it's like a it's like a prison dance well I'd really
1:34
like to have a show right now that's true from my notes I wrote I couldn't apply to this show this year because of
1:41
how hard it is for me and how hard shows have been for me and I had to kind of make some decisions with a couple other
1:47
shows moving forward as I'm getting older and having issues I kind of have to take that into account whether I can
1:53
apply or not well you know uh you know you're an early to bed kind of fella and
1:58
um you know you've said that before you kind of get into that habit especially in the hot summer months when you have
2:04
to get up early when the the weather strikes you in order to work before it gets too hot so I mean I I know that
2:10
you're you're an early to bed kind of guy if I if I texted you when I'm setting up by you I'd be hitting you
2:17
squarely at bedtime because it's uh it's going to be a late one yeah I'm not that sensitive with sleep I could I would
2:23
certainly give up a little bit of sleep to do a a good show but physically just having a tighter window of time is what
2:30
really gets me that I can't I can't get it done in time I really need a day before the show set up not a few hours
2:37
of the day before to set up so anyway yeah I'm bringing a painting this time around that I have not shown since uh
2:44
actually haven't shown it in over a year but I've got a big double booth and I've got a wall to fill and I've got a
2:50
gigantic 100 pound plus 9ot by 6 foot painting it's that one that I I showed
2:57
that show there in in h Utah that's cool I had seen it and I was wondering if it had sold or if it was just waiting for
3:03
the right opportunity to come back out and make a Resurgence yeah um it's you know what
3:09
happened is that my truck is no longer reliable and I'm not taking it out this time and and so I rented a high van and
3:16
and I've got room I'd have to take a trailer in order to show that piece because it doesn't fit inside my truck
3:22
but with the high roof van that I rented it fits in there so she gets to make another appearance so I'm excited to
3:28
show that again it's a great Mar that's the other thing that was hard for me is like it's it's such a great show and a
3:33
great market for me I hate to you know leave that one on the table sure sure um what is are you done for the season or
3:40
you still have linaa I've got one more show in November yeah we're going to linta and looking forward to that but it
3:47
feels so far away at this point it's it's kind of been like you know we've been working every day it doesn't feel
3:54
like the kind of pace that we've been having for the whole summer it's yeah it's been a little a little LAX of day
3:59
Bal around the sigworth household it's been rest and relaxation that's good you
4:05
texted me and said yeah I'll be uh I'll be ready to record around noon I'm like noon well look at
4:12
you taking a taking a half day sure short Studio days these days but we're
4:17
getting we're getting done what we have to get done yeah it's like you you did talk to uh Keith Grace coming up here
4:23
about needing that that drive needing that deadline and and um it's funny I
4:29
was s there listening to your talk with him and how many of the things I'm glad you talked to him instead of me not
4:36
because I don't I don't love him because I I do love love Keith and Sherry but so many of the questions that he answered
4:42
I'm like that's my answer you know if you were interviewing me like I I didn't realize that our histories were so
4:47
remarkably similar with the illustration background and design house and working for a paper and spot illustrations all
4:55
that all that stuff so really interesting stuff because I was sitting there going I was like answering for him
5:00
while I was listening to the show I'm like no Douglas you don't understand it's because uh they they needed those
5:05
USA Today infographics that's what they needed they wanted that right that you would have been like okay and
5:13
then move on I mean I need an explanation I needed a little more information to know what he was talking
5:18
about yep answer for me so yeah interesting talk for everybody but me who already knew the
5:24
answers hey uh there's a new acronym out there we all know about nfts but now
5:29
have a new one it's called nfps what you got for nfps that's for when I'm talking with friends at the art show and we're
5:36
having a good old time chatting and they they turn to me and they say uh you know that's not for the
5:42
podcast yeah I've had people say that to me and it it totally ends up in the
5:48
podcast I just take their name out of it I'm like you're in there sorry
5:54
the characters represented once again are uh purely the figments of our own imaginations there you go we made it all
6:00
up that's right that's right so yeah so there some of our conversations lately
6:05
I've been having to figure out a way to bring up the story without being too
6:11
specific that's right well you you talk about this being tail end of our show
6:16
season but it's the beginning of of baseball playoff season to me so yes that is uh my honestly one of the most
6:23
exciting baseball games I've ever seen in my life last night really inadvertent screaming was happening around the
6:30
Armstrong household wives children dogs all uh all were were a little terrified
6:36
thinking you were losing your mind in the other room yeah literally something happened that had never happened before
6:42
or like a outfield assist double play to end the game it just just blew my mind
6:47
like a robbing of a home run catch and so I've got that um I won't bore you it's not a sports podcast but I am very
6:55
wrapped up in and the fact that Douglas is not means that the only sports team endorsed by the independent artist
7:01
podcast is the Atlanta Braves so so that's your team right that's your team yeah that's the that's I'm I'm die hard
7:07
I care far too much about that and you're wearing a ball cap today so I can't really oh Atlanta Braves I see
7:14
that now I can't really tell if you've lost any hair through the process of all of this uh tortured on the edge of your
7:21
SE I've lost so much hair yeah but luckily just from the sides from pulling it out of the side of my head this week
7:28
um all right you know this is going to be airing next week so hopefully your team is still in it by the time this
7:34
airs but it's funny I I took a little heat from a friend here uh online they
7:39
sent me a message they took umage with the fact that I I disparaged the entire great state of Indiana I took a little
7:46
heat from that with some friends um while I don't back down off of that I think I will add one more City uh if I
7:54
can and it's not an Indiana city and just being a being an Atlanta Braves fan the entire city of Philadelphia they can
8:02
also um we'll add them to the list of of people I don't like oh they can also suck it yeah sorry you go down with your
8:10
fighting phills uh you gota you gotta go down on that one so um man am I not a
8:16
fan currently okay all right yeah well until um until maybe uh Brit House
8:23
Square opens and then I'll be like I love you Philly it's such a nice place to be take me back brother L love baby
8:30
get back to brotherly love what else we got here speaking of sucking it you know I've heard a lot of artists say that
8:36
just another glassblowing term that is not actually it's one of the few non-
8:41
disgusting glassblowing terms or disgusting glass blowing terms that doesn't exist but um you know I've heard
8:47
a lot of artists say that they can't sell art in an election year so we you know we're on the heels of all of this
8:54
political stuff every day and we're going into an election year next year do you have do you find that to be true for
8:59
you uh I don't believe it I don't know
9:05
what causes it and I mean I've had down shows but I don't really like to place
9:10
blame or excuses necessarily I don't really pay close enough attention I mean
9:15
I know that the world is is in a horror show right now with Israel and I mean
9:21
our own country is in turmoil we don't even have a speaker at the house house to to vote on giving Aid to one spot or
9:29
another I mean it's just it's it's a horror show right now not to talk about politics but yeah what do you what do
9:35
you think you know those things can really turn into self-fulfilling prophecies I just try and operate
9:42
operate with a positive attitude with with most things that we do in life and with our business and our family and all
9:48
that stuff because if we start focusing on like everything being bad you show up in the next show and you can make that
9:55
happen you can you can create it you can be in the mindset that the bad that's going on everywhere is going to
10:02
affect your ability to connect with people right yeah and I have I tried to
10:07
look more inward a lot of times but uh I can catch myself spiraling if other
10:12
people I see are selling and I'm like you know what is the reason uh as opposed to what's the excuse like why am
10:19
I not um but man yeah it does it does get tempting and and I do have a
10:24
tendency to to to spiral but I I don't love blaming that election you're H
10:30
we'll see we'll see where it goes talk to me again in a few months I even find myself getting a little annoyed when
10:37
people get too dark other artists in my Orbit you know I find that I I I
10:43
struggle sometimes to gracefully change the subject or send people on their way
10:48
but really don't bring your negative Cloud around me because when I'm at a show I really am about making sales you
10:55
know making connections and I don't want to to bring down the energy in the booth I don't want to bring down the energy of
11:01
myself and so yeah I anyway I mean that's just my whole philosophy on why
11:07
we're even there oh yeah absolutely I am will and I am a character that I play at
11:13
the art show and I'm in character and that character is is loaded and getting
11:18
richer all the time it may not be the case folks uh that is certainly not the case but man I I know what you mean I've
11:26
been um I've been accused more of of being less subtle and just pointing out
11:31
out get out take it out don't talk about that totally should shouldn't talk about that
11:38
you know we recorded the Preamble last episode with the witcom before the
11:44
interview was recorded so you know we didn't get to really talk much about their talk and it really generated a lot
11:50
of great conversation online and a great engagement and I it was really good good conversation you guys had yeah I love
11:57
those guys and nice ni to give them a voice uh too because I I think highly of them and and the way their work has
12:04
progressed and and a lot of people may not know them or or get a chance to or you have a preconceived notion because
12:11
because they're so goddamn pretty is all about the pretty just so goddamn pretty
12:16
uh no I'm just kidding it's it's uh not really actually but no it's just you know you do have preconceived notions oh
12:22
this person is just that oh they're just doing this and I love the choice of a
12:29
certain kind of Integrity of of pages photographs and the plates that she uses
12:34
um and G just doing one image I think that's a really tough to that's really
12:40
bold Brave to to go down that road scary too I mean you have to have a certain
12:45
kind of confidence that in order to pull that off and and who knows I mean they I'm sure she reserves the right to
12:51
change her mind down the road but that's that's part of her artist statement right now I mean it's it's amazing one
12:57
of the things I really loved about your conversation was like how they kind of seem like they come from a similar World
13:04
in you know their approach with the work right and how it is in the respect of
13:10
like they both are honoring techniques from the past with with mix found
13:15
objects from you know the past and and her technique of going back in time and
13:21
using old technology to capture imagery yeah it's almost like she's she's taken a a piece out of his booth and and
13:28
started making her own statements and artwork out of it it's it's it's pretty incredible and toxic too we didn't talk
13:34
about the toxicity of that and and that would be an interesting topic to maybe do a panel on at some point if you are
13:41
down but talking about I mean everything from you know the toxicity of cadmium paints to the incredible chemicals that
13:49
that Paige has to use to the things that you guys have to deal with with
13:54
glass all sorts of chemicals involved in in creating beautiful things that we do
14:00
the thing that I wanted to say about that was I found it so interesting that
14:06
their collectors aren't the same I mean you would think it kind of you know as an outsider it would seem like they
14:12
would but it's such a Nuance that I never really even thought about until that you guys talked about it so yeah I
14:18
mean it's it's interesting to see which pieces hang in different homes and who's
14:24
who's art work that you see in in different homes where you go through and who you and a lot of times it is not the
14:32
people that you consider your competition really it's it's things that
14:37
look good in people's homes whether I walk in and I can't tell you how many different times I've walked in and seen
14:43
a a mark Lansky on the wall like that guy you know that's and I always see that guy at shows and I'm like there's
14:50
my guy I'm gonna do well this weekend if that guy's here it's like a a good luck symbol almost okay and that wouldn't be
14:56
so intuitive either by looking at your your guys's work it would wouldn't seem to go but you do have collector base in
15:03
common it sounds like absolutely black and white illustrative storytelling and woven colored glass I it's just you
15:11
never know so it's it's um just kind of cool to see well one thing that I found a little humorous uh about what Mick was
15:18
talking about how if somebody comes into his booth and buy something too quickly that he can sometimes delay the
15:26
purchasing time because he wants to talk more about it right and I thought that was that was brilliant and it actually
15:32
reminded me of something that happened with Renee and I in our booth this past year I don't know if you ever had this
15:39
where it can be super unclear if a collector is saying to you I want to buy that you know what I mean like you're
15:45
not they're not giving you the right words and you don't want to just be like okay I'll wrap it up for you right yeah
15:51
I mean I have been known to be like to maybe jump the gun a little bit too soon but man when somebody wants to buy it
15:58
I'm like boom I I am listening for those words maybe it's because of like I don't
16:04
super love the interaction like that long drawn out thing I'm kind of always looking for the exit in my conversations
16:11
and I want it to end in a sale and I'm trying to drag it on until I get the the sale and see if they have anything left
16:16
to say but I'm also kind of like man I just don't want to talk anymore I want
16:23
you to leave you'll take yes as an answer right yes I will so this happened
16:28
to Renee was cleaning the glass at one of our shows this past summer and a woman walks in and she says to her I
16:36
really like that piece and of course she gave the thank you I appreciate that and then she goes no I like that piece and
16:44
she's like oh okay but she didn't say at that moment that I wanted to buy it she
16:49
just kept saying how much she liked it and then the woman said in a very robotic drawn out way I would like to
16:56
buy this pie and we're like oh okay all right there you go now you said the right thing well
17:04
maybe she was uh was she M mush mou thing the eyed I'd like this piece it's
17:10
possible it's possible maybe she was thinking she said it but we weren't going to like start rapping until we
17:16
knew that's what she actually meant so yeah somebody came into my booth in in Plaza a couple weeks ago and and and I
17:23
was trying to be really patient and kind with him and and just generous he's showing me images he's he was very into
17:31
like America and freedom and I was just like just super not into it at all like
17:39
he's showing me and he's proud I'm like yes yes you have a lot of skill I really
17:45
want you to leave with a good attitude but also the operable sentence is just
17:52
leave please it's time to go can't can't do it anymore I just didn't want I mean
17:58
and we don't ever want to be all about the sale I mean because there is
18:04
connection and absolutely instilling in like young people for example an
18:10
artistic creative future in them but you can only look at so many you know pieces
18:16
of a beginner art or or artist or something before it's like I got to get
18:22
back to putting energy into what I'm here to do you know what I'm saying so
18:27
that's tough your prints stencils are amazing sir I'm good luck and get out I
18:34
mean I've been known to look at quite a few chahul exhibits on people's phones
18:40
and feain like I've never seen it before your hero it's my hero again oh
18:47
you love there he is yeah Shuli tattoos so yes you brought up earlier that I
18:54
talked with Keith Grace this week and it was a great talk we were next to him at
18:59
the last show in Kansas City and I got home and I thought to myself we talked all weekend and I think this would be an
19:06
interesting talk for the community to hear I really had a good time sitting down and talking to him yep he's one of
19:12
those guys I just always look forward to seeing Keith and his his lovely wife Sherry uh this was just a solo interview
19:18
with with Keith uh Sherry definitely does a lot of the the support of the show and you know they're always there
19:25
together he mentions that in the in the interview there with talking about how
19:31
difficult it must be for people to travel and and do these things alone and how great it is that the two of them get to go out and and show off his work and
19:39
they're they're just amazing people absolutely well without further Ado let's jump into this talk and he what
19:45
Keith Grace has to tell us about him and his artwork so here's Keith Grace now in
19:51
Greenville South Carolina this episode of The Independent artist podcast is brought to you by zap
19:57
the Dig digital application service where artists and art festivals connect well sometimes I'm in a real hurry and I
20:04
just love that I have things that are saved in zap to streamline my process to that end Douglas one of my tricks with
20:11
zap is to favorite all the shows that I'm even remotely considering that way I
20:16
can filter them all and then look at all the deadlines at once but then there's other times when I have a little more
20:22
time on my hands and I'm looking into other shows and I want to get to know about the show and all the information
20:29
is right there in the prospectus with links to the website I can see who the artists are that have participated in
20:35
the past you know that's a great idea Douglas because one of the ways that I was finding shows at the very beginning
20:41
was to go online and see who I felt my work looked good with it's just great
20:46
that all that information is organized and easy to look over when planning our
20:51
next show season Keith Grace is my guest today here on the independent artist
20:57
podcast hi Keith Keith how are you hey Doug I'm great how are you long time no seea we just spent the whole weekend
21:04
together on the streets of Kansas City didn't we we did it was great being your neighbor again I think this is like the
21:10
third or fourth time we've been next door our neighbors you and Sherry have been next to us more than any other
21:16
exhibitor out there that I can think of so it was we were excited when we saw that was going to happen again you guys
21:22
are always fun to be neighbors with as are you well when we both found out that
21:27
you know setting up we decided to scooch our booths away to the other side so you
21:33
know we had a 12 x 12 spaces so we could have a little Alleyway between us what do we call that our little art alley
21:39
that we had to negotiate exactly you only one person got to use it at a time
21:44
well I had told you that ear early in the in the weekend people would come in and they would step in between our two
21:51
booths and they'd say to me oh I really like your work looking at your work and I'd say oh the artist is in this booth
21:57
so you can go in and talk talk to him and they'd smile and they'd walk away well that happened to me like three or
22:02
four times but I didn't tell you this part eventually in the middle of the of the weekend I just started saying thank
22:08
you since they weren't uh they weren't really interested in coming in to talk they just wanted to acknowledge it and
22:14
walk away that's perfect that's awesome I saved you from uh having to give them
22:20
any sassy Sunday comments well yeah sassy Sun came about
22:28
where you know it' be like I'd be tired it's the end of the weekend and I would
22:34
just start kind of playing with people in our conversation and and and
22:39
sometimes it would be like you know maybe a little too sassy and Sherry would say you know I think it's time you
22:45
went for a walk just go get out of the booth and go for a walk around the show she is known to be the voice of
22:53
reason in your uh family and business true no question about it
23:00
so well I'm glad you could take some time and and talk to me how was your trip home it was good I don't I don't
23:06
remember being so tired after a show though like I mean it was like we drove
23:11
we got home and I mean even today I'm still tired but it's the last show of the year so it's just time to uh get
23:20
reenergized again and I do have to get back down to the studio eventually but like right now we're just taking a
23:26
couple days off yeah I hear you it it did kind of seem that way but it did feel like we kind of had this this
23:32
buildup of show after show that after this one it did kind of feel like we could exhale of like oh my God it's done
23:40
you know the race is over yeah absolutely well how long have you been in this selling art on the street
23:47
business how long have you been doing that 33 years 33 and the only reason I know that off
23:54
the top of the head is it was like my first outdoor show was in our uh our local art museum has had this art show
24:01
going on for many years it's one of the oldest running outdoor shows and it happened to be just about four or five
24:09
blocks from where we lived and okay I remember Sherry coming with the stroller because we had just had our our first
24:16
son and he was just three months old so it's like I know exactly how long I've been doing because that was my first
24:22
show okay so that was a memorable kind of marker mile marker and was that in
24:27
Rockford it was yeah well I know that you didn't step into this world like you
24:33
had a career before doing art shows right what was what was that I did I
24:38
actually well I went to uh art school for graphic design and illustration and
24:45
upon graduating my first job was in a design studio and that's where I met
24:50
Sher actually oh cool and then my second job I worked for a newspaper I worked in
24:55
The Newsroom for like 12 and a half years years and I started out as a an illustrator and Page designer and that
25:03
eventually turned into a completely different job uh it was kind of at the time and a lot of younger people are not
25:09
gonna recognize this at all but it was at the time that like USA Today came out and ganet news service was one of the
25:16
largest running news organizations in the country and they started doing
25:21
information Graphics it was interesting to me because it was just another you know way to use your creativity but it
25:28
was it was even more important because you had to convey like a lot of information within a small space but
25:34
what happened in that process is this this industry change happened that they they kind of went away from that
25:41
handdrawn illustration and they just wanted everything to be computer generated and information packed and
25:49
that was the disappointing part of it and we had this editor who came in and and just said no more illustration it's
25:54
just going to be information graphics and so like would there be like photos like it replaced it with actual photo
26:00
imagery took the place of what you're describing or um they could they could combine photos but it was mostly you
26:06
know like bar charts pie charts um but illustrations with like actual
26:12
information like there was uh something that was explaining like say a new racetrack was coming into town and I
26:19
would do like an illustration of what the racetrack looked like and and I'd have an insert of a map of where it was
26:26
going to be located and then I'd have facts about the race industry you know and and you would build these big
26:33
Graphics that just provided a lot of information for the reader just to look at and and absorb without having to read
26:40
the whole story or was hopefully to entice them to read the whole story too okay and that was for you so like USA
26:46
Today or um that was for the Rockford Register Star which was a ganette newspaper and ganette also owned USA
26:53
Today okay the funny thing about it was like I was I was really kind of upset when that came over when they they said
26:59
no more illustration I mean that's what I love to do I love to do a unique
27:04
illustration almost every day you know for a story and they kind of took that
27:09
away but you know as they say there's always a silver lining because I didn't have that outlet of of drawing or
27:16
painting or doing whatever each day for illustration I decided that I'd pick up
27:22
my paint brushes and start painting and I just started like on my dining room table and started doing work and it was
27:30
my outlet for that creative part of it okay did that shift come pretty quickly then where you were then making work for
27:37
yourself or was that just for a while you were working this job but then doing
27:42
this as like your kind of like your hobby or something that you could express yourself yeah it was definitely
27:48
hobby started you know it was um I I'd come home for work and I just kind of
27:54
start experimenting with paints and was doing a lot of figurative work and and
28:00
then some friends and some other people saw and they just said well you should you know you should work towards doing
28:05
like a show and some friends of ours had a little gallery and and they said yeah
28:10
definitely let's get enough work together for a show and they they gave me a deadline which is always the best
28:17
way to create more work and uh I've always worked well on a deadline and I think that also comes from working for
28:24
the newspaper Right light the fire under the butt to make it happen oh absolutely
28:30
yeah okay I think I think a lot I talked to a lot of artists and they they say they like a deadline or they need a
28:36
deadline you know to yeah some some artists like during coid when they didn't have anything to push up against
28:43
nothing to plan for it was hard for them to stay on track with producing because they needed that you know that pressure
28:50
right exactly so then what made the switch what made you step out of the the newspaper world the graphic world and
28:57
into your own business how did that happen my job evolved with the newspaper and I actually became like the graphics
29:04
editor and I started becoming part of like the news judgment i' go to the
29:10
meetings and we'd talk about which stories were going to be on the front page and what's needed photographs and
29:17
graphics and things like that and I really be kind of got it on the job education on journalism and it was a
29:24
really cool time to be a journalist it actually everybody had their beats and everybody was you know I worked with
29:31
really cool people that were very passionate about their beats and their reporting and their writing and worked
29:37
with great editors and everything but I could see that by the time you know like the 90s came things
29:44
started uh yes things started shifting and it became a little less information
29:50
and kind of became a little bit more infotainment in a way to me and and it
29:55
just like I could just see that the change happening in the journalism part of it and and so I started Sher and I
30:02
started our graphic design business and I got to do a lot more illustration with
30:08
our clients that we had with that making that break is hard because youve raising
30:13
two kids and you've got insurance and all that kind of stuff but it was like
30:18
Sherry always was very supportive and just said let's just do this and so you said you met at a designed house what is
30:25
that is that a place that does graphic design for like companies and and Ad Agency type stuff that's correct yes
30:32
yeah so we would do all kinds of things like corporate identities and brochures
30:38
annual reports we' do 3D design you know for um product design and okay
30:43
everything from like yeah trade show design I mean we did everything so it was and was that Sherry's uh was she
30:50
part of the creative aspect of that too is that when you said you met her and you were in that business yeah
30:55
absolutely and she continued on when I worked at the newspaper she continued on to work in the uh advertising design
31:02
field and then when we were finally able to kind of start our own thing and that
31:08
uh kind of took off that's when I was able to break away and in the meantime I had still been doing painting and I'd
31:15
still like after that first show I told you about it's like the next year I did like two shows and then the next year I
31:22
did like three shows and they were all very close by like Madison and uh Chicago and and Rockford and kind of
31:29
like kept within a couple hours of of where we lived and then I started having
31:34
some success with that uh as well at the same time that we had our design business and then I wanted to pursue it
31:41
even more and I thought well if I quit paper I could still work with Sherry on the design stuff but I could pursue
31:48
other shows and and start traveling greater distances and pretty soon I was doing seven shows a year then 10 shows a
31:55
year and just kept building from there it sounds like you had kind of like a layering of different income streams and
32:03
then once one thing started to get stronger you felt like you could start letting things go and then the your your
32:08
own art business became more in the Forefront yeah exactly it's like I think
32:14
it was when I started traveling more and I guess it's it's kind of about finding your Market too and especially when I
32:20
started doing you know shows in the Chicago area the more Urban Market was like they were like
32:27
much bigger and better than you know I had experienced before okay and that's when you meet other artists from around
32:34
the country and you start talking with them about what they're doing and they inspired me and I was a sponge I took
32:41
you know all the information I could from a lot of people and just started a buildup of like hey you know what I
32:48
think I think I can do this I think I can just live off of painting and it's a leap of faith no no question about it
32:55
but no kidding yeah Chicago was kind of a good place to to be to have that so
33:00
close because there were so many opportunities for an artist and an art Market in that area absolutely Rockford
33:07
isn't like a suburb or anything but it was still within a you could be home the
33:12
next day and working on whatever other projects you have going on other than painting and we we kind of had to get
33:19
home the next day because we had get the kids off to school on Monday you know so it was like but I was fortunate I also
33:26
had a lot of family around us so we had a lot of support from family and friends that helped us out too so okay and you
33:32
have a lot of help along the way yeah you have two boys I do yeah did they travel with you or were those early
33:38
years you tried to go off on your own with and have have them with other people they did travel with us they
33:45
actually they were actually pretty darn helpful you know with uh setting up but
33:50
also like you know if we were Sher and I were busy setting up we'd go go see if somebody else needs some help and they
33:57
at the time they knew all the artists and they would stop in and they'd give artists breaks and they'd watch their
34:02
booth for and they'd help set up or go get them food and they really became like an interactive part of the our
34:09
tribe I guess is the good way to say definitely yeah it is it is an interesting life that we pass on to our
34:15
kids growing up in this business you know it's there's so many skills that they learn just from observing us
34:22
working and doing what we're doing it's it's pretty cool and you know the funny thing is like both of my boys were um it
34:29
may sound biased but I'm going to say it anyway I thought they were just artistically like more creative than I
34:35
ever was in like school grade school high school even and and it's like but neither one of them wanted to pursue a
34:42
career in art and said why I mean you're so talented they said it's so hard I
34:48
know my kids the same thing they're like oh my God you have to work so hard to do
34:53
what you do oh man so would you say that your
35:00
career of working with newspapers and graphic design that that really influenced your body of work and and and
35:07
what you make oh absolutely yeah there's no question about that and I think back
35:13
on it and and I really did I loved I loved that job while it lasted of course
35:19
the thought of being able to make it on my own was you know even more enticing
35:25
so uh but I looked I look at my work now and I you know incorporate a lot of texts and I always love maps and and my
35:33
work certainly has super graphic quality to it so it's all it's all influen from
35:40
my past for sure I know when we first saw your work when we got on the scene it seemed like you were everywhere I
35:46
mean you were on posters and show promotions I remember stepping up to
35:51
your work and of course from far away you can see the subject of your piece it might be a a man with with a fedora on
35:57
his head or a dog or whatever the subject is and then you step up and you see all the layering with the collage
36:04
and that was the first I'd ever been exposed to that that kind of detail and that kind of of layering I was just so
36:11
impressed with how you could tell a deeper more layered Story by what you do can you describe that process sure yeah
36:18
so I I always tell people that my painting style evolved from my illustration style because when I worked
36:25
at the newspaper I would always work on Vellum and I'd use either paint or color
36:31
pencil or washes on top of this Vellum and because it took the it took the
36:37
medium really well and it was very smooth and and what is Vellum it's a it's like a paper but it's a very
36:43
translucent it's cloudy but it's translucent okay it takes like pen and
36:49
paint and colored pencil and markers it just it accepts all the mediums really
36:54
well so that's why I worked that's why I chose to work on it but I remember one
37:00
time coming back from a meeting and I had this illustration that I was really pretty proud of and I came back to my
37:07
desk and I just threw it on my desk and I had all these papers uh magazine
37:13
pictures and papers and I threw it on there and I saw all this type coming through the illustration and it was just
37:20
like wow it was just like a happy accident that looked really cool so I started experimenting with doing my
37:27
first Works were on Vellum and I was collaging from behind which was a really
37:32
different process and I loved it I thought it it had a really cool effect but then I wanted to actually apply
37:39
paint heavier so I I had to kind of reverse the whole process and so I had to do the collage work first and then
37:46
build the painting and layers over it so that's how I got to the process that
37:51
that I'm doing right now and it's evolved of course over the years but it's still the same process what uh what
37:59
is interesting to me by having the pieces behind the Vellum almost like a under like a a sheet of Cloudy glass or
38:06
whatever there's no texture between each of the pieces of paper or the maps or
38:12
whatever you're using as the collage and it's like a smooth transition and I noticed that is still prevalent in in
38:18
the work you do now with it on the top because it seems like they just flow
38:24
right into each other you know what I mean like it doesn't seem like all of these HJ pod pieces put together it's so
38:31
smooth it is it's like a a giant jigsaw puzzle in a way you know like when I start especially a big piece it's like I
38:38
kind of visualize what I want the background to look like I always want some contrast in size and color and and
38:46
weight and even the typography the fonts that you know I choose and everything
38:51
and so I'll start with the like the the larger letters or map pieces and
38:57
and I'll put those down first and then I'll put like more mediumsized pieces in
39:02
and then I start filling in with smaller text images and or map pieces and it's a
39:08
timec consuming piece because I'm able to achieve like a kind of a almost a
39:14
seamless effect on the background exactly I hand tear each piece so that all the edges are feathered too so that
39:20
when I do collage it down it lays really flat and it can even overlap the other piece but it doesn't really look like it
39:27
cuz it's feathered out and then it's lot of layers of matte medium for my collaging and then till it's like till
39:35
as smooth as possible before I start the painting some of the imagery feels very like
39:40
1950s would you say is it kind of from that era is there something about that time period that resonates with you I
39:47
don't know I mean I've always been attracted to that I think I it it goes
39:52
back to you know like when I was a kid and my mom takes to church and everybody
39:58
was dressed so proper beautiful and men in the fedoras and their suits and the
40:04
women in their hats and gloves and dresses and my mom dressed beautifully and and there was just such an Elegance
40:10
about it you know and and I think that's always kind of stuck with me and then I just started collecting like a lot of
40:16
like uh magazines and I'd go to a state sales all over the place and pick up
40:23
vintage magazines and and uh I would just flip through them and i' just rip out pages that I thought images or poses
40:30
or you know clothing or something that inspired me and I'd keep a file of that and that's seriously what I go back to
40:37
all the time but it takes you back to your childhood uh kind of that period of that Elegance that that kind of put
40:44
together feel that that that something about that really is a driving force for your your work it is and I think it's
40:51
it's also combined with like I love old movies too you know on Saturdays I watch
40:56
all the old movies and and I loved Hitchcock movies and the shadow you know you you know in my work I use a lot of
41:03
Shadows I noticed that it was kind of at a at a very young age I just was I
41:09
always was so attracted to the shadows in just people walking by or on TV or in
41:16
movies or or whatever especially like Hitchcock movies that played such an important role that's cool so speaking
41:24
of childhood were you an artistic kid I mean obviously you decided to go to school for graphic design did that come
41:30
from a creative background as a kid uh it did I actually I think I well I know
41:37
I Knew by the time I was in second grade that I was going to be an artist I didn't know what it was going to be but
41:43
it was just like I just like ype that's it I don't need to decide anything else I'm going to be an artist one way or the
41:50
other and and it was actually really interesting because um I went to
41:55
Catholic school and and in second grade you got art class like one day a week where someone would roll in a card of of
42:03
stuff and you'd you'd have art class like that and I just couldn't wait for that day to come in and and my second
42:10
grade teacher actually called my mom and said yeah you need to get him some maybe
42:16
the museum offers some classes or something and and my mom was always super encouraging with the artwork and
42:23
and even my grandma before that like we had this of those typical old downtowns where my grandma would get on the bus
42:30
and go down and get her hair done once a week you know but there was always like great shops down there and and I'm one
42:37
of five kids and she would always take one of us every Saturday to go down and and we'd always get to stop at like the
42:43
office supply store because they had every color of paper in the world and
42:48
you could buy it by the sheet and my grandma would buy tons of paper and markers and pencils and things like that
42:56
and it was like we always just had drawers full of of art SP that's cool I mean not a lot of kids get that kind of
43:03
encouragement you know they might push somebody in a different direction but they saw that that was your that that
43:09
was your strength and what you were really drawn to do and they provided you
43:15
with those opportunities to explore my mom used to always say like I don't know
43:20
where you get it from you know and um it's like oh Mom it's you
43:26
like she was this yeah she was this incredible like seamstress and incredible cook and everything she did
43:34
it wasn't she wasn't a painter or illustrator or anything like that but everything she did was so creative and
43:41
and artistic in my eyes don't people say that to you sometimes it's like I I don't know I can't draw a straight line
43:47
you know I don't know how you do that and it's like you probably are a lot more creative than you're giving yourself credit for and it might not be
43:54
in my medium or your or whatever it's like and if they're like a a doctor or
43:59
something like well I can never do what you do so you know right well people they do they think of it as as one thing
44:06
like I probably would not have ever thought of myself as an artist because I did struggle to pick up a pencil and
44:13
translate what I could visually see into like an image until I got my hands on a
44:19
blowpipe and started making glass I was like oh this is how I can realize my my
44:24
creativity so there's lots of different ways and when I was a kid I didn't even know glass blowing existed you know so
44:31
there's some things that are really that people think of immediately when they think of an artist they think of a
44:36
painter or they think of a sculptor perhaps but like you said your mom didn't feel like she was creative but
44:43
she was in so many different areas yeah right so did when you decided to go to
44:48
art school or was it to do graphic I mean I hear a lot of artists talk about
44:54
graphic design and that that is often I think kind of like the career that
45:00
creatives go into because they think this is a career I can make a living at versus being somebody who put put it out
45:07
to Faith you know so was that kind of your your idea in mind when you went in for graphic design or how did that work
45:13
it was because you know the ugly truth is you know it's kind of beating in your
45:19
head as like you'll never make it as an artist so you better have like some type of career to fall back on and obviously
45:27
I didn't listen to them but you know it's like it was kind of like you you need a more practical you know degree
45:32
and more practical skills where you can actually get a job and I mean I still like I like you know I love the idea of
45:39
graphic design too I thought it was super fascinating you know and and even
45:45
at that time I didn't had no idea that I would be able to make a living as a
45:50
painter I had no real like desire to to be honest with you like when I went to
45:57
to school and and I absolutely loved art school and I loved the graphic design and I loved the illustration and the
46:04
really cool thing about the school that I went to was a design school but it was like all of my illustration teachers
46:10
were painters and so I kept this extra education about painting all different
46:17
mediums I think that just really helped make me make the transition later you know because I did have those skills uh
46:24
from school and and the ation that I got from these uh teachers was pretty
46:29
amazing well and let's face it I mean even though you were going in a direction where the thought was I need
46:36
to be employable those skills served you in being your own independent and and
46:42
first in your design business and then in your own art practice so I mean all those all those skills along the way got
46:48
you to where you are absolutely no question about that yeah and you know
46:53
the the I just wanted do a shout out here okay just all let get a shout out
46:59
there I'm gonna do a shout out to all of the teachers I had from grade school on
47:05
through high school and college and it was like I remember them I remember their names I remember how they inspired
47:13
and taught and they all shaped the artist that I'm today and then you
47:18
couple that with support from your mom and your siblings and your friends and
47:24
and then later on this uh all these incredible artists I met when I started
47:30
doing shows it's like I just feel so lucky to have had so much inspiration in
47:36
my life from other people I I hear you it's like if you didn't have that
47:42
nurturing kind of push things might not be what they are now I mean I know that
47:48
you love the life that you've created and you love what you do and some people
47:54
might not have found that path if they wouldn't have had that supportive kind of group to to lead you on that way I
48:02
know you're right I mean I we've had friends I still have friends that are
48:07
just so amazingly talented but they they either didn't want to open
48:13
themselves up to rejection or they didn't have the confidence to do a show
48:19
they didn't they didn't have the drive they whatever the reason is it's just like it's like uh it's a shame
48:26
we were talking about this this weekend about like there's nothing constant about this business and there's nothing
48:33
when you describe what you do to people they're just like really you don't you ride that wave all
48:40
the time you're like you can go to a show travel across country and and not make your expenses back and then the
48:47
next one you might go Gang Busters but you just don't know what end of the
48:52
spectrum you're going to get or you could have a great show and then not get Jed in the next year or two and you're
48:59
like yeah oh that was such a big part of my income last year you know and no I
49:04
know I had a cousin who visited me at this show she lives in Kansas City and she's about my age and and she asked how
49:12
things were going and and I had had told her we were doing very well and I was very happy with with how the sales were
49:18
going and then we she asked because you know she didn't know the people are you don't don't understand this industry or
49:24
this business and he says well if you sold well that must mean that you'll for sure get in next year right I said
49:30
actually it doesn't you know and I explained how rej juring and New Jers and all that and and explaining it all
49:37
and she's like well that should be a component of it right and I explained that whole concept of well there's that
49:45
line between what is art is art a commercial commodity are we selling
49:50
something that that can sell and if it sells does that mean it's not good art it's like we could really get ourselves
49:56
in a in a in a weird mind mess trying to wrap our brains around that sort of
50:02
thing and I've done that I've had that conversation in my head many times I think we all have yeah it's that Bal
50:09
between commercial success and your own personal Artistic integrity I guess you
50:15
know yeah and we have to balance that you know I mean of course we want to sell I mean it's our livelihood you know
50:22
that's that's the one thing you know you always have to remind people it's like you know this is this is our livelihood
50:28
you know we're we're not just here exhibiting for fun but it's like you
50:34
know a lesson that I learned a long time ago was whenever I tried to make something that I thought would sell is
50:41
the very that won't sell you know and I think that if you kind of trust your instincts your imagery and your
50:48
Technique and everything like that and just kind of do what you want to do from your heart that's the stuff they usually it
50:55
hits it it yeah yeah instead of trying to make that uh that particular dog to
51:02
match a collector's particular interest right oh you're funny because you know I
51:08
just got done tell you that I wouldn't do that and then I I took out a commission this week and it was like oh
51:14
my God what am I doing like you know it's like it was a big piece and it's
51:19
kind of like well damn did they ask you if they if you would paint their dog
51:25
well no my I know where you're going with that
51:31
one and I think it's like would you do my dog and I say well that's a personal
51:38
question and it is a personal question no but um that'll be a sassy
51:43
Sun one where Sher say you need to go take a walk you know but right right the truth is like most people like I think
51:50
it they just use that as a way to start a conversation you know it's like they see a dog people are mad about their
51:56
dogs and they're like it's like they like your work but it's it's got to be their dog you know and and it's like but
52:02
I always know it's never going or I shouldn't say never now because I just picked one up right you just literally
52:09
just backpedal on what you staunchly told me this weekend when you said I don't do commissions right well so when
52:18
people come in and they say that you would you do my dog and I'll say well you know it's kind of a personal question they go what and I go oh no I
52:25
said what did you ask me and they'll say what' you do my dog and I said well it depends what kind of dog do you have and
52:32
they'll say whatever they say you know Cocker doodle or something I go God no I hate those dogs and before that like the
52:40
look on their face is absolutely Priceless but before they could even say anything oh I'm just kidding no I don't do commission work and it's like they're
52:48
just kind of like a little bit horrified and then they're like oh okay and like whoever is with them whatever their
52:53
partner friend or whatever they just bust out laugh because they get they get it immediately right yeah right but uh
53:01
yeah but that I mean that's another a point about you is that you do have this really great sense of humor and you
53:08
employ that whenever you can when having conversations with your collectors I mean it's just it's just part of
53:15
you well it's it's fun I I certainly don't do it to insult them and I don't
53:21
really I don't really hate their breed a dog it doesn't matter what breed they say right you you're going to have the same
53:27
answer right but it makes for a fun weekend for your neighbors that's true
53:34
absolutely so about um I think it's been about six years now right that since you
53:40
made the big move out to Greenville yeah seven years ago yeah we seven years what
53:45
prompted that big change well our boys uh are grown and gone they settled out
53:51
west you know beers in Denver and colas in Northern californ
53:56
and we thought we'd follow them out there because we we knew we wanted to get out of the Midwest and and there's
54:02
nothing holding you there I mean once they're up and gone right so it's like yeah yeah like we can live anywhere and
54:09
do what we do and we just kind of thought you know we could be super comfortable here and it's kind of like
54:15
it's a weird thing to say but it's like we kind of wanted to get out of our comfort zone and it's just like well you
54:20
know a lot of people are just like kind of late in life to just pick up and and leave everything family and friends and
54:26
all that and it's like yeah well why not what's the worst you know worst case scenario we move back you know but it
54:32
was like we just I think we both felt Sher and I both felt that we needed this change we just needed a spark we needed
54:40
to be re inspired and and so I had been doing artist spere since like
54:46
2010 and it was like I never really saw myself in the South but it was like this
54:52
was a really cool City and it was very welcoming and we'd meet people every year doing the show and then signey and
55:00
GNA had moved there just like a year or two before and they were like encouraging us to come down and so there
55:06
was kind of a tribe there that you felt like you said leaving friends and family and Rockford but there's the family that
55:14
we create out there so you it wouldn't be like you're all alone right exactly
55:20
of course the weather was better too that that it's and it's beautiful in Greenville and what I liked about
55:27
Greenville the most is that it's a city that has transformed itself I mean
55:33
completely how so um well you know people would always say well if you were here 30 years ago you wouldn't recognize
55:40
a single thing and so there were a lot of big changes and there was a mayor
55:45
that was very he wanted to build up downtown he wanted to change it like you I guess you wouldn't be caught dead in
55:52
that downtown area have you been to Greenville before I haven't well you have to come visit but their downtown is
55:57
is spectacular and so they had a a one-year plan A Five-Year Plan a 10e
56:04
plan a 20-year plan a 50-year plan then they still do to this day and they
56:09
they've been sticking to it and they've absolutely transformed the whole city and I really kind of like that because I
56:15
was from a city Rockford which I loved it's my hometown and everything and there was a lot of creative people that
56:21
had a lot of creative ideas but all these ideas which get stuck when it came
56:26
down to budget you know and so in rock you're saying yes exactly so it's kind of like Greenville was the opposit like
56:33
they had all these great ideas and they followed through on them and like did they want to have like more art more
56:39
more of a contemporary scene that sort of thing is that what the changes were kind of geared around absolutely they
56:45
wanted it to be all of those things and destination for tourism is that part of
56:51
it too well that's what it evolved into and now it's huge you know for tourism here but I think one of the the big
56:58
impetuses for change too was that BMW the only plant in the United States came
57:04
to Greenville in Spartanburg and I think that when you have like a I've heard people speak to this that you know when
57:11
you have a a big European company like that it's like and they come over they have certain or different expectations
57:18
as far as culture and education and you know restaurants and art and uh you know
57:24
all kinds of things and I think that that was also an inspiration for them to
57:30
build on that you know um It's s such a huge employer and you know with a car
57:36
company you have all the subsidiary companies European companies that come as well and so it made it uh a much
57:43
different city I think for them and they just kept growing and building on that growth but in in a really smart way all
57:51
of those factors were like this might be the place for our next chapter absolutely did you initially say that
57:57
you were thinking of moving out by your kids but then once the whole kind of idea of we could move anywhere then it
58:04
was like the whole country was kind of under review for where you might end up yeah so we uh Sher went to college in in
58:12
Denver and she loved it and we thought we'd end up at least Colorado I knew we
58:17
couldn't afford California that's for sure and then when we got out to Colorado it's like we found out we
58:23
really couldn't afford Colorado either you know well we could but it was just like
58:28
it was different we knew that we were like mountain people we wanted it seems like the mountains there were just like
58:34
a lot more severe and hard whereas the mountains here in the Southeast were
58:39
Greener and and friendlier and uh yeah so because we used to do a lot of hiking
58:45
and like a lot a lot of times we'd be on the road for a show and we would just pull over if we were near like a a trail
58:52
head and just get out of the van and do a threemile hike or something through something and just to kind of you know
58:59
get us out of the van basically but well I SP Beauty and inspiration in in hiking
59:04
so so we kind of realized that we were kind of like mountain people and so when
59:09
we decided that we didn't want to move out west we just figured you know we're going to be a plane ride away from our
59:15
kids no matter where no matter where yeah exactly so we uh we started looking
59:21
between Greenville and Asheville and everywhere in between because the you know the mountains are beautiful here
59:27
and when we ultimately decided that Greenville had the most to offer for us
59:32
which which we were leaning anyway we found a house and it's on the mountain
59:38
Greenville has a wow a mountain and uh we kind of found our dream housee and it
59:43
just all it all just worked out so cosmically actually yeah right even
59:51
finding the house was a a real interesting story because we had been back like five or six times there was
59:58
nothing on the market and there certainly was there's so few houses on the mountain and they rarely go up for
1:00:03
sale and so we found another house and we put a offer on it and we didn't get
1:00:09
it so we just came home and just said well let's put our house on the market because Rockford wasn't as strong a real
1:00:15
estate market at the time and it's like who knows how long it's going to take to sell that okay well a week later we get
1:00:22
two full price offers on our house Rock it's like oh my God we got to go back down and find a house so we're going to
1:00:27
be homeless so sure we go back down and we had been combing the mountain there's only one major road that goes through
1:00:34
the mountain where the residents live in um we we took this one street that makes
1:00:39
like a circle right off of the main road and we see this house and it's like this California flat roof modern house and
1:00:47
Sher goes I bet you want to live there don't you and I go I do why don't you pull over and ask if they want to sell
1:00:53
it and she goes I will not oh it wasn't up for sale no there was so I go just go up and knock out the door and see if
1:00:58
they want to sell it she goes I will not you know and she she kept driving you know and so in the meantime signy and
1:01:05
GNA had some friends that lived on the mountain and they invited us over for dinner and so we're having dinner at uh
1:01:11
these new acquaintances they were like oh we we' love meeting you love for you to move on the mountain and I excused
1:01:17
myself to go check my phone because we were meeting with the realtor in the next day and I get a email Emil from her
1:01:25
and she goes hey this just came on the market like an hour ago it looks like you guys I went ahead and set up a um
1:01:32
viewing showing for you and it was that house oh you're
1:01:38
kidding so I came back to the table and everyone goes what's wrong I said you are not going to believe this Sherry you
1:01:44
know it's like you know this house just came on the market an hour ago and you got it and we got it yeah we
1:01:54
knew instantly we walked in we both walked separate ways we came back we're like yep wow so that's why I say it was
1:02:00
very Cosmic you know the whole mov it yeah that it was meant to be you know it was so we're happy with so did you have
1:02:07
to do any work on it or was it kind of like moving ready or or how did that go
1:02:13
no we did do some work on it it was pretty dark first thing we did was we
1:02:18
tore out the whole kitchen and put it in a new kitchen and um we lived like the
1:02:23
whole back of the house is kind of all glass in it we don't have a Mountain View we just have like a forest view on
1:02:30
our side but it's it's U it's beautiful and so we did that and it was actually
1:02:35
kind of a good thing because we just set up in the living room we set up a coffee pot in a microwave and um we would have
1:02:44
like breakfast and lunch at home and then we'd just go out to dinner somewhere and we'd go and we'd pick a
1:02:50
different restaurant we'd sit at the bar and it was just like we met so many
1:02:55
people just sitting talking to them you know at the bar and you experienced the community right and you were like open
1:03:01
to meeting people who lived there absolutely and so it was like with it was like within months and I think we
1:03:08
had a a bigger circle of friends than we ever had you know back at Rockford you know people are just very
1:03:15
friendly and open about doing that and again gets back to that like I said it's such a welcoming City anyway and then
1:03:21
they're like oh you should do this you should go here you might want to try this you know and it's like all of a
1:03:27
sudden we felt very connected to the community like and immediately what it had to offer and all the different
1:03:33
experiences to have yeah absolutely well where I was going with the house thing what I was just kind of assuming when
1:03:40
you moved into your your dream home that then I know that soon after that you guys kind of got in the business of
1:03:46
flipping houses so was moving into this place is that what precipitated you
1:03:51
wanting to buy other houses and renovate them and sell them as kind of another
1:03:57
project that you worked on yeah so you know when we lived in Rockford we moved like six times and oh
1:04:05
you did yeah we before we were married even we bought our first house it was
1:04:10
tiny little two-bedroom Bungalow and we fixed it up and realized we wanted more
1:04:16
room and you know in a short period of time we sold it and and made a decent
1:04:21
profit on it so then we bought this monster of a Victorian house and did an
1:04:27
amazing transformation of that it was at the same time we were trying to you know have a family and Sh said well let's
1:04:34
just get this project you know get our mind off of it and we'll just start working on this house well like 11 days
1:04:40
later we close on the house and she's pregnant so it's like it worked you know off of it but um
1:04:50
but then we worked on this and this was like this three-story house it was really cool and we redid that and then
1:04:57
then found a another really cool like kind of mid-century modern house and so
1:05:02
we sold that big house and built some equity in that as well and and then so
1:05:07
we ended up doing that we'd live in the house while we renovated and we had a really good time you know renovating
1:05:13
these houses so this has been something you've done for your whole life together it sounds like it yeah but it was mostly
1:05:19
for ourselves you know and and then Rockford's you know real estate market wasn't like that strong like I had said
1:05:25
before but we couldn't actually make a living out of it doing doing it there okay um so when we got to Greenville
1:05:33
we're like oh you know what maybe we could do this like as if we're not busy enough I was gonna say you only have a
1:05:39
hundred other things going on right but uh this house uh went for sale right
1:05:45
down the street from us so it was literally like six houses down and it's like well we could do that and we could
1:05:51
take our time and you know it's like a but it was like a four sare foot house so you know it was a there's a lot to
1:05:58
do well we did it and we loved it and
1:06:04
sold it and uh you know there was something about like because you couldn't find like cheap houses to flip
1:06:10
because there was already a lot of people doing that so it's like we had to take it like we have to get a different Market we have to buy a bigger nicer
1:06:18
house invest more up front but then profits going to be bigger right in
1:06:23
theory and it's kind of like the risk of being an art fair artist who shoots for the high-end type Market with who we
1:06:30
know who we're selling to you know we're comfortable with those kinds of buyers and it doesn't seem out of the realm
1:06:38
that that would be the kind of buyer that you'd be looking towards with the home flipping thing yeah exactly and it
1:06:45
was just a different way of using our creativity you know I mean it's still like it's just a lot of fun and shopping
1:06:52
for materials and totally bath vanities and the kitchen count you know counters and cabinets and all the lighting I mean
1:07:00
that that's a blast and then we did as much work as we could but we also were fortunate enough to have uh find some
1:07:07
contractors that could do the stuff that I that we're not comfortable with like electric or Plumbing or you know
1:07:13
whatever we would subcontract out all of that but we would design the house completely and we'd do a lot of demo and
1:07:20
we of course do all the finishing painting and all that kind of stuff and and everything in between we' just do
1:07:26
what we could well you are two people who like we get this question a lot when people come in our booth they'll say to
1:07:33
Renee and I you guys can work so well together I can't work with my spouse I can't I can't paint a room with my
1:07:39
spouse but I see a similarity in you and Sherry as with me and Renee is not only
1:07:45
do we have our business together but we we do lots of activities together we're like best friends and you guys work so
1:07:52
well together in in those kinds of projects and all those multiple projects that you guys do together yeah I mean I
1:07:59
can't I can't tell you how um how amazing Sher is and and what a great
1:08:05
partner she is uh in everything that we do and and I could see that of course with you and Renee too I love I love the
1:08:12
way you guys work together because I you know I get to listen in over here with
1:08:18
your customers and everything like that and uh you're both so patient and kind
1:08:23
with you know the clients and you know sometimes they're just unsure and sometimes they just need a little a
1:08:29
little room pushing yeah you guys you guys are so good at that you do it like
1:08:34
seamlessly you know you play off each other really well that's interesting I don't notice that I don't it's
1:08:40
interesting to hear from an observer because I don't get that perspective because we're in it so that's that's
1:08:46
really cool to hear yeah but like you know Sher and I have had this we always
1:08:51
like we play to each other's strengths too you know and like you mentioned earlier oh is Sher the voice of re well
1:08:58
yeah of course she is she's always the she's she's the checkbook too you know as far as like I'm like let's do this
1:09:04
and she's like no we can't do that you know uh I dream big and then she puts it
1:09:12
back into reality it's like no we can't do that this is what we can do yes this is what we can do this is
1:09:19
what we can't do but yeah right but uh but yeah she's uh yeah she's really
1:09:24
great and she to be honest I don't know how people do shows alone because it's like I don't know I guess I've turned
1:09:30
into like the biggest baby because it's like if I have to do a show alone I feel like I I don't even know how to put the
1:09:37
booth together you know it's like it's just to having that that support and
1:09:42
having someone that you know contributes so much you know I couldn't do it without her honestly I I I am curious
1:09:48
like so what is Sherry's role in the overall business I mean you've told us
1:09:54
some of the titles or whatever that that that she acquires you're the art I mean does she ever give any kind of feedback
1:10:00
or do you ask for feedback regarding what you're making or is or is that strictly on you I like to say it's
1:10:07
strictly on me um I like to work solo I don't even like people watching me work
1:10:14
and I not even shareing for whatever reason I just feel like I'm so focused
1:10:20
on what I'm doing that I don't like I don't want any prej judement on anything
1:10:25
and I don't want any suggestions but when I'm struggling with something when I know something isn't right I'll have
1:10:31
to do is say Sherry come here what's wrong with us and she just immediately points and goes that is what's wrong
1:10:38
with and she knows and she's always dead on you know and it's like it's frustrating to me because it's like I'm
1:10:44
working so hard and it's like I'm working and working and I can't figure out there's just something not right
1:10:50
about it you know and she's able to just come in two seconds later she's pointing at and just like you need to rework that
1:10:57
right there and she well I think but I would say it's a combination of her creativity but more so knowing you you
1:11:04
know what I'm saying maybe knowing you and knowing your work and it sounds like she didn't necessarily give you in that
1:11:11
example give you the solution she just knew if she pointed you in the spot that needed your work to be reworked then you
1:11:20
could fix it yeah just not criticizing just saying there's something not right about this you know and it's like and
1:11:27
then I can look at it go you're right and a lot of times I can I I feel like I
1:11:33
can figure it out because especially with bigger pieces when I'm working on them I I I have them laid out propped up
1:11:39
against the walls around my studio because okay I have to live with them they evolve as I work on them you know
1:11:45
and so the most asked question I get at an art fair is how long did it take you to do this piece and it's like well
1:11:54
I don't really have an answer for that because I never work on a painting from start to finish I always have several
1:12:01
pieces going at the same time and because I think I have to live with them before I I Rush a finish to them you
1:12:07
know and um sometimes there's just something that just you know looks off
1:12:12
and it just might be just that a shadow is too sharp or or the shadow is not
1:12:19
following the curve of an arm or something like that and that's the kind of thing that Sher can point immediately
1:12:24
she used to do like a lot of fashion illustration on her first job and um you
1:12:30
know yeah and she uh she just has a critical eye you know there's no question about and and definitely a
1:12:36
critical eye in in the um flipping the homes too I mean she's really good at
1:12:41
that in the designing of like what kinds of features you put in the homes that sort of thing or in the business side or
1:12:48
all of it what are you what are you talking about really yeah yeah she she's good at that and she's also like
1:12:54
she she's kind of like a you know she demands kind of like a Perfection from
1:13:01
like the sub contractors and things like that where I'll be like H that's good enough you know she'll she'll be like no
1:13:07
it's not you know she'll go talk to you know she's just very like because it drives her nuts if something's off you
1:13:12
know like a quarter of an inch it's gonna like it'll drive her mad so it's like she just assume face it up front
1:13:19
just say you need to redo that because that's driving me crazy you know and whereas I'm more like H it
1:13:27
looks pretty good you know but she's much she's much better at that but
1:13:32
you're creating something that you're intending to not just live with you're intending for somebody else to live with
1:13:38
it and sounds like she's got a real ey for attention to detail because you don't want that to be the holdup let's
1:13:45
say this trim isn't right or whatever if that's the holdup of the sale then you know that's good that she pays that
1:13:50
close of attention it it absolutely is and it's like especially when you're getting down to the end of a job I'm
1:13:56
just like I'm so over this right you're ready to be done with it right and she's more like no we got to do it right you
1:14:02
know and we've always that's one of the things we've always you know we had a rule that like when we're working on
1:14:07
these houses it's like we don't cut any corners and we don't use any inferior
1:14:12
products we we design it as if we're going to live in it or our kids are going to live it and that way you can
1:14:19
feel good about selling it and selling it to the next you know so well that's
1:14:24
interesting it sounds like you say you you're making the house for yourself it's almost like when we make art for
1:14:30
ourself you're kind of treating these Renovations in a a very personal way
1:14:37
true I mean or are you are you looking at what market trends are and what people want when when are you looking at
1:14:43
these houses that you're flipping as as a product or is it a little bit like an extension on how you do your artwork I
1:14:50
think you you kind of nailed it there yeah it you know looking back on it that's exactly what we do would you say
1:14:56
that this move to Greenville and this kind of this new chapter in your life has infused kind of a new energy or
1:15:03
enthusiasm into your work or into life in general of course yeah I think that I
1:15:10
think sometimes when you if you don't get out of your comfort zone you're going to tend to kind of just doing the
1:15:17
same thing over and over again right you know like sassy Sunday becomes sassy every day that's true
1:15:24
no you know I well I I get bored too you know it's like you know I I always uh
1:15:30
you know feel like there's something else and I always have a ton more ideas
1:15:35
than I have time for what I want to work on and you know one thing that I did over Co was I did a uh a gallery show
1:15:44
where I did a completely different body of work and it was all abstract and I actually did sculpture work as well and
1:15:52
yeah it was something that um started that getting back to the newspaper you know when I'd have to go to those
1:15:57
meetings which was the least favorite part of course was having to go to these meetings um but we'd get these printed
1:16:04
out like news budgets and and I would constantly draw in all the margins as
1:16:10
this meeting's going on and then every time I'd come back to my uh office after the meeting i' I'd throw the budget into
1:16:16
this box I had and they were just subconscious Doodles basically and so
1:16:22
when I left the newspaper and I started you know cleaning out things I went through this box and I was like w that's really kind of cool looking like I don't
1:16:29
have I have no recollection of drawing it it was just a subconscious thing and so I started going through and I
1:16:34
collected all of these and and that's what I based this uh show on was I started doing large scale paintings of
1:16:41
these Doodles that I did and and then I created some sculptures that that looked
1:16:46
like them as well and um and what was the material you made the sculptures out of I took the condensed heavy condensed
1:16:53
foam like almost like an insulation foam kind of and glued many pieces together
1:16:59
and then carved out pieces and then cool collaged part of them and then like for the Armature all the way around it I
1:17:05
used thumb tacks and I created like this Armature into the foam and then I would
1:17:11
kind of like uh almost like grout it and then paint over it and and then I did
1:17:17
collage work on them and then I started using other um materials like crushed glass and foam Lea ERS and and just it
1:17:25
was just a a cathartic exercise sounds really cool yeah felt really really
1:17:31
great to do something different and I think artists say it I hear artists say it all the time it's like oh I wish they
1:17:36
had time to experiment with a new body of work and and it's like we never do have the time you know and I think un we
1:17:42
have a plague come across come across the land right I mean and I but I do think
1:17:49
it's like you say you never have a time I just don't think we allow ourselves that time and I think that you know
1:17:56
every other job has continuing education right built into it you know nurses and doctors and dentists and Tradesmen they
1:18:03
all have continuing education that they have to do for their jobs and it's like
1:18:08
we need to do that for ourselves you know we a friend I think you know Barbara lash she's just like we just
1:18:13
need to do like art camp like we just we'll have a different project once a month or once every couple months and
1:18:20
just do have different materials and just have a day where we just experiment and I
1:18:26
think that it's a good exercise for anybody right last year I was talking to Duke clawen and he said that um his
1:18:33
experience all the years of being on the road doing art shows is that he was like artist didn't know when to stop
1:18:41
succeeding like let's say you've created something that sells well and they stay
1:18:47
on that train of of that and they don't ever step back to innovate on the new thing and it really does feel like I
1:18:54
don't want to step back from you know making the thing that is very successful and lucrative right now because I I I
1:19:01
don't want to lose the opportunity to keep selling it but it's kind of shortsighted to not take those those
1:19:07
times to step back and take a month or whatever to experiment with other things and see where it goes yeah I think that
1:19:14
for example like the um that big piece that I sold this weekend you know that was my newest piece and I got such a
1:19:21
rush out of doing it was a little different uh I mean it certainly fit within my body of work but it was a
1:19:27
different approach alog together that was like a like a light bulb goes off it's just like Yeah from now on go in
1:19:35
this direction and and create everything with this is you're happy with this base
1:19:41
here now just keep building on it and do that and there's excitement on it but you know at the same time I do think
1:19:47
that especially for painters you know it's like when you're doing a piece and I get very sad like if I do p I'm very
1:19:54
excited about it but they sell like the first day of a show and it's like nobody else got to see that you know it's like
1:20:00
did you get a chance to at least get a an image of it to to use for images yeah
1:20:06
yeah I did but I mean I'm just saying like it's like oh I wish other people could see it I get that part of it too
1:20:12
sometimes we'll sell something and think well we'll photograph it after we get home from the show because we need it for the show and then it sells and
1:20:18
you're like I wanted to use that for next year's jury slides and it's gone right right but I mean it's a it's a
1:20:24
good it's a good problem to have and it's like definitely it's also like I do see like why artists do kind of recreate
1:20:31
some images because at least for me it's like when I'm working on it it's like I want to take it in many different
1:20:39
directions especially with color and with size you know it's like when I did these two images and it's like I sold
1:20:45
the there was a man and a woman I saw them right away and I loved them but it's just like the whole time I was doing them I was like I want to make
1:20:52
these like six feet tall you know and it's like it's all that kept going through my mind as I'm working on them
1:20:59
it's like these need to be bigger these need to be much bigger and it's like so I did do them you know I did them again
1:21:05
and and completely different color palette completely different collage materials and everything but it was just
1:21:10
like I think that's okay at least for me it's okay that's great but I I still
1:21:16
think that always continuing with new stuff is the most important cool well with all the things that you've always
1:21:22
got going on is there anything new kind of percolating that you're thinking of you know into next year any projects
1:21:28
you're working on any shows anything like that in all honesty I'm kind of like uh slowing down I'm cutting back on
1:21:35
the number of shows you know that I'm doing and we certainly want to now that
1:21:40
we can start traveling again and you know there's so much inspiration in traveling to a different country and and
1:21:48
and all that so that's definitely on our list of things we want to do another thing that that Sher and I have been
1:21:54
talking about is something we want to do here locally is we have a really fantastic Arts Council here and I was
1:22:00
talking to the director about it and I said it's one of those things where there's the first Friday things where
1:22:06
all the Galleries and Studios can be open you know on First Friday and and we
1:22:11
had that back in Rockford and I've seen it in other cities and everything like that and the only problem with like that
1:22:18
first Friday thing is like a lot of times it's just the same work every time
1:22:24
you go you know okay and I thought about like maybe creating like a more of a um
1:22:32
a popup kind of theme type show and it you know creating like creating like
1:22:38
these events almost like it's like just the one night kind of deal and have it in different locations maybe different
1:22:44
artist Studios or different businesses or something like that and the director of the um Arts Council was very excited
1:22:51
about that I said I think it's the one thing that's missing where it's just like something completely unique every
1:22:56
single time and then if you give an artist an assignment that takes them out of their normal wheelhouse it gets back
1:23:03
to what I was telling you about about experimenting like say you have a themed show like a food show or a robot show or
1:23:08
whatever the theme might be you know exactly it gives them an you know an opportunity to create something new and
1:23:15
wonderful it's fun for the artist and it's fun for the patrons to see what kinds of things that the different
1:23:22
artists who maybe collect from from their normal body of work how they might do a take on this other theme or
1:23:28
something I think that's kind of cool that's really cool yeah just to kind of just to again you know like we've got
1:23:35
this amazing talent pool here in Greenville and to promote art but also
1:23:40
just make it a destination for people to come to it's like oh the next popup is gonna be you know here and it's going to
1:23:46
be all new work just create more excitement than you know just another first Friday you know kind of thing
1:23:52
which I mean they're great they're absolutely great but just may just a little bit different approach to build
1:23:59
more excitement anticipation and and hopefully you know the artists will sell their work too so definitely that sounds
1:24:06
pretty cool well Keith this has been a really great hour I appreciate you taking time and sitting and talking to
1:24:12
me and telling me all about yourself this is cool this is really cool it was really fun you and Rene are just great
1:24:19
people and the art world is lucky to have you and was Sher and I were lucky to have you as neighbors again and
1:24:25
hopefully next year we'll be neighbors all over again all the damn shows I'm going to start requesting to be your
1:24:32
neighbor that's the deal all right well you take care and give my best to Sherry we'll talk to you later yeah my best to
1:24:39
Renee take care you know Douglas like I mentioned before I felt like I could have answered a lot of those questions
1:24:45
myself it's funny how much of the the similar background in in the way going
1:24:50
out of an illustration Department and going taking it into a fine artart uh area and I can see some similar it's
1:24:57
funny I can even see some some similarities in our work where I I can see a lot of them hanging in the same
1:25:03
spots like we mentioned uh with other artists I I couldn't think more highly of of uh Keith and his work and his
1:25:10
family and just just good good people so nice talk there so what did you think there at the end when he floated the
1:25:16
idea of having an art camp we can all as artists get together and experiment different mediums and I mean I think you
1:25:23
guys should have a great time learn really lovely for you guys
1:25:30
yeah that that' be great I can't wait to hear all about it okay well we'll get back to you on that we'll let you know
1:25:35
what happens well you know uh me and the word camp in any kind of way I'm not
1:25:40
into it so um you guys have your fun yeah um as soon as you decide to have it at a hotel I'm on board we'll call it a
1:25:47
convention how's that there you are you know what I'm not I don't like sharing I
1:25:52
don't want to share talk people anym than I do well it also kind of started to turn into like this travel ad for
1:25:59
Greenville I think I think the artists in Greenville wanted to turn into like this this big art I mean it is an artist
1:26:06
Hub but I mean it's like come come to Greenville everybody move to Greenville dude I love Greenville that is I love
1:26:13
that that City I love that community and the artist group that we have we covered all the Greenville artists yet like we
1:26:20
only got a couple more right I don't know it could be like whacka all they just keep popping up they should man it's a good Community you've got the uh
1:26:27
it's like highend Hannibal it's cost of living is a lot higher it's
1:26:33
a great City beautiful city and I love the fact that their mayor and and everything uh gotten on board with with
1:26:40
putting that Community together I can't believe you've never been there well it's it doesn't work out with your
1:26:46
schedule it hasn't worked out with my schedule will got I understand got loud and clear all right I'm clear all right
1:26:53
yeah uh well you'll get you'll get there one of these days son don't worry about it you're going to make it I believe in
1:26:59
you all right well you got a lot to do you got to get on the road and get your ass down to Houston and uh Park yourself
1:27:06
in Lot H I got a baseball game to watch I got a game at two o'clock what are you talking about the TN play um I gotta go
1:27:14
folks we'll see you next week and I mean see you but you just means you're going to listen to us and not get to
1:27:20
participate but we'll be there on the road stop by and say hello if you're in the area uh I'll see you on the road my
1:27:27
friends all right take care everyone this podcast is brought to you by the National Association of Independent
1:27:33
Artists the website is niia artists.org also sponsored by zapplication that's
1:27:40
zapplication.org and while you're at it find us on social media and engage in
1:27:45
these conversations be sure to subscribe to this podcast to be notified when we release new episodes oh and if you like
1:27:51
the show we'd love it if you would give us your five-star rating and offer up your most creative review on your
1:27:57
podcast streaming service see you next
1:28:20
time



English (auto-generated)

All
Podcasts
Recently uploaded
Watched