Business in the Front

Can't make this $#!T up!!! The stories from the road we all experience, while outrageous to most, seem so normal to all of us. In this episode, we unpack the stories from the St. Louis Art Fair. As we anticipate a wrap of the summer art fair season, we've got the winter applications nagging away at us. Tune in as Douglas https://www.sigwarthglass.com/ and Will http://www.willarmstrongart.com/#/ try to make sense of it all in a thoughtful and entertaining way!

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Visual artists Douglas Sigwarth https://www.sigwarthglass.com/ and Will Armstrong http://www.willarmstrongart.com/ co-host and discuss topics affecting working artists. Each episode is a deep dive into a conversation with a guest artist who shares their unique experiences as an independent professional artist.

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Transcript

0:00
[Music]
0:11
welcome to the independent artist podcast sponsored by the National Association of Independent Artists also
0:18
sponsored by zapplication I'm will Armstrong and I'm a mixed media artist I'm Douglas sigworth glass blower join
0:25
our conversations with professional working artists [Music]
0:31
well hello everybody we are back here on the podcast Airwaves and will is in
0:37
Santa Fe how you doing my friend I I am yeah I'm back it's it's a it's been a
0:44
bit of a whirlwind here trying to get back but um yeah here I am there you are I saw you at the last show with your
0:50
whole life shoved into a trailer and then say on the streets of St Louis
0:56
sorry uh Sarah umof I used my free parking pass to park my belongings for the entire weekend there in the artist
1:02
parking um it looked just like an artist vehicle and it had the the pass but uh
1:08
it had my dirty undies and and uh stereo equipment and all that good stuff so um
1:15
yeah it was funny though I was able to help out a good friend Allison antelman needed a a tent and and some display
1:22
stuff and you know I don't know if you've ever gotten help from somebody but you're always you always feel a
1:28
little bit at their mercy and and uh Allison was like oh my gosh thank you so much and I'm like Allison I could
1:34
literally set up like four booths right now like you don't even I I could build a house here if you want like I could I
1:42
could do I've got some Lumber um yeah I had I had everything so uh happy to help
1:48
out uh as I could if anybody had needed anything there at St Louis I was like oh you need an extra set of Weights how
1:54
about a craft Hut from 2002 would you like some cleaning products all sorts of crap in in there huh everything
2:01
everything under the godamn Sun so well the show hotel where we stayed that
2:06
parking lot you know that's attached to the hotel that is one tight parking area
2:13
and I saw so many artists myself included having to do that van shimmy you know where you have to kind of do
2:19
the forward 3 in back five in until you get into that spot for sure it's a dance
2:26
I looked out my hotel window I was staying in the same spot and I saw uh the
2:32
crowning Jewel of parking spot for trailer owners like you know the spot
2:37
that I'm talking about the one that's lined up with the exit so that it's a clear shot absolutely I was in the hotel
2:44
just standing there and looking out the window and and uh and what what I wear
2:49
to bed and uh it's it's an undes theme today so far I don't know where this is going but um standing there looking out
2:56
the window tempted to Moon Rob Matthews uh as I see him moving his van and and
3:02
then I'm I realize that that the golden spot is available so I'm pulling on my jeans like Marty McFly and just taking
3:08
off running down the hall and before somebody else nabbed it right oh my God yeah but it was it was like it was
3:15
amazing because everybody was leaving to try to go set up so that's when I moved my my trailer in to kind of slide in
3:21
since it didn't have the art stuff in it yeah but yeah so I got the the Cuda the the the crowning Jewel of of trailer
3:28
parking and man that that parking lot is tricky it was yeah well speaking of St
3:35
Louis how did it all go for you was it what was it like this year uh you know it's it's expertly run um last year I
3:42
took notes I I I took notes on what they were looking for from me and hey I
3:47
really loved this style and and Etc this theme and so I made sure that I had I
3:53
was ready and those were the pieces that they could not have been less interested in God you turn yourself into a pretzel
4:01
you show up and it's like darn I guess you know I mean that's
4:07
always the way it's the Murphy's Law everything that you prepare for in this business is not going to be what what
4:14
you know you're going to sell your older work or you're going to sell this or that if you prepare I don't know but I I
4:20
still feel good it left me feeling good with the body of work that I have left cool and I had a I had a decent enough
4:26
weekend monetarily so so that works did you have to know that there is a chahul
4:32
exhibit in St Louis this week you know you you might be surprised to find out
4:37
that I don't really give a [ __ ] well I heard about it nonstop everyone walked
4:43
in the booth and said oh you might want to know this there's a chah Huli exhibit here that's hilarious they just kind of
4:49
assume he is your God but you know actually I don't I don't I don't mind Chuli uh no I don't either but it's one
4:56
of those things where when you hear it you know nonstop but I I have to say
5:02
because of that exhibit we had a phenomenal show I mean class was on everyone's mind so we did we did really
5:09
well oh that's interesting I wonder if that yeah that's that's really cool it was in the news and yeah like you said
5:15
on people's minds that's that's fantastic I'm glad to hear it yeah it was it was pretty cool had kind of an
5:22
interesting situation I wanted to talk about with a commission a potential commission where somebody walked in our
5:29
booth and they saw one of our more substantial pieces and their reaction to
5:35
it was oh my God this is perfect this is exactly what I want I've been looking
5:41
forever for it blah blah blah so to me it felt like it was going to be an easy across the Finish Line kind of thing
5:47
yeah definitely so we we had a zoom meeting this week and when we got to
5:53
talking this perfect thing started to evolve in their minds okay which I mean
6:00
I understand that collectors are going to like you know they want something particular and specific or whatever but
6:07
yeah enough time had gone by that they were now starting to dream up variations of the theme this is perfect as long as
6:15
you do it this way and you do it this this kind and you and you do little angels can you put angel wings on these
6:22
well yeah I know the type I don't want to get down on it because I mean it's not it's not necessarily out of of the
6:30
conversation yet but what I wanted to to kind of talk about with it was as the
6:36
conversation was starting to stray more and more away from what we do right I started to feel that pressure to kind of
6:43
Chase that like to make them happy and to kind of turn myself into knots and
6:50
and say well I can do that I can do that I can do that and then it kind of settled in over me like you know the
6:56
complications of trying to make this piece that they're envisioning that is
7:02
different than what they saw is not going to make them happy ultimately and I don't think I'll be successful at it
7:08
and it's you know time and energy into something that didn't necessarily feel
7:14
authentic anymore so right did it uh did it happen to match up with somebody else that you know uh could you could you
7:21
kick them to somebody else not anyone that I know that's a contemporary but you know some of the bigger name type
7:27
people out there that that people might know and you know that sort of thing so I had one in Cherry Creek come by and
7:34
they were like oh my gosh and you know and if you know my work I work mostly in in black and white I've started
7:39
sprinkling in a little bit more color here and there but um I think I've told this before but you know it it made me
7:45
feel really good they were talking about oh my gosh I love your work uh can you do something a little bit more brightly
7:51
colored and uh more mid-century modern and I'm like uh you have you met the G
7:58
jenos CU they're right around the corner and they probably already have that in their Booth so um why don't you just go
8:04
down there and you know it's it made you feel good because all of a sudden I don't have to do a commission that is
8:10
out of my wheelhouse that's going to take me 10 times longer that you know the client and the artist may not
8:16
necessarily be happy with so why not give them to somebody that that can nail that look yeah well in this case I tried
8:24
to keep them invested in what they originally were feel feeling that
8:30
enthusiasm towards that was real when they walked in and saw what we do sure that that was real so I was trying to
8:37
walk the line with keeping boundaries with what we're willing to do but then you know also not losing the sale so I
8:44
don't know we'll see what happens down the road it's going to involve more conversation and everything yeah you know uh a mark of Highly Successful
8:51
People is saying no so you could always do that too sometimes I don't want to do those commissions but I I hear you
8:57
working towards it and that that works for you too um yeah all right what is uh
9:03
what what's next for you are you are you going back to Plaza next weekend we are we're getting ready for the Plaza Art
9:10
Fair in Kansas City but it really is starting to feel like we're wrapping up
9:16
this year we just have two more shows so we have Plaza next week and then we don't have a show till November and
9:21
that's that's it for 2023 and I'm so excited about it yeah I'm ready to put a
9:26
fork in it but I've I've backloaded my years so I'm not quite ready uh well that'll be interesting that I'll see it
9:32
in L I've never done that show I've never never shown I haven't I haven't shown in California since the third year
9:39
I think of this body of work so it's been like nine years since I've been to California to show so oh wow um and I
9:47
mean it's right there you're not that far from Southern California yeah exactly I mean I'm only 10 or 10 or 12
9:54
hours and it's a pretty easy drive here from New Mexico just driving across Arizona and through the desert and up
10:01
through Bakers field so or down I I thought that would be sauco I don't know I just wanted to say Bakers field cu the
10:08
last time I drove I got to see Merl Haggard Highway and that made me happy awesome that's great it's the little
10:14
things Douglas it's the little things that mean a lot hey so speaking of California this kind of worked out
10:19
interesting so one of our other kind of interactions with a collector a sale that we made that I thought was kind of
10:26
an interesting it kind of pushed him over the Finish Line was they didn't really want us to ship this piece to
10:32
them they they were hoping it could just kind of arrive at their door right they bought it in St Louis but their other
10:39
home is in Denver so Denver is on the way to this other show we're doing in in Southern California and when I told them
10:47
about the kind of the lineup they were like done pulled out the credit card said let's do it but it made me think
10:53
about a shift that's kind of been happening with how I collect C customer
10:59
names this year I'm finding that I have collectors that I'm seeing at multiple
11:04
events at multiple homes that they have throughout the country nice and so I'm kind of stopping the whole idea of
11:12
categorizing by show and only saying I'm going to send my emails to the people in
11:18
St Louis or my people you're saying that there's something to the fact that I just take I just have one mailing list
11:25
and everybody it's like if I'm showing an artist fear then the people in Denver are getting an email is that what you're
11:31
saying it's it's okay I I'm saying you're finally in style will yes thank you yes the second home uh people all
11:39
right that that's good yeah I'm treating it like more like um quarterly newsletters you know and giving a list
11:46
of shows I'll be at and and and kind of things we're working on so that's kind
11:52
of a different approach than what we've done speaking to that the um I had a a client that came to see me in St Louis
11:59
that that bought something for me that again they were uh mailing list cuz they were in St Louis to see Guns and Roses
12:05
so um they had come down from from Chicago so if ID batched it um but it would have probably been in the midwest
12:11
batchery but Axel got sick so they didn't get to see it so they got to go to the art show anyway so Oho they came
12:17
specifically for that but then last minute the concert was cancelled correct that is correct Serendipity right they
12:24
show up at your door yep so the thing I loved about this past weekend was the crowds were huge
12:32
the energy was on point I mean it was just like massive it was great yeah St
12:39
Louis had been waiting for a nice weekend it had been in the hundreds previously so we really both dodged a
12:45
bullet and and the community was ready for sure definitely yeah I was so so happy to have that coming off of some of
12:52
these shows that had kind of a different energy to them and there was a show
12:57
earlier this season where there was just this big kind of lull where there weren't too many people walking through
13:05
and I had this customer walked by and she looked at us sitting there and kind of looking out at an empty aisle and she
13:13
gave me that look will that that that will that look of pity oh you get a big frownie you get a
13:21
oh I'm sorry dless yeah so she walks up to me gets really close and I think she
13:28
feels the need to give me this pep talk and she Pats me on the shoulder and she
13:33
says it's okay you're going to be very successful someday oh brutal God damn I
13:42
had a uh I I've got a good friend a dear friend in Richmond Virginia who's a very successful landscape architect yeah and
13:49
um she was running a crew and they were redoing the community uh median kind of
13:56
project right around it's like a whole planting thing thing it was right around the spring and right down near City Hall
14:01
and they're doing this like a multi I don't know I don't want to say Millions but it was a lot of money and putting
14:07
all this stuff into a sprucing at the city for the spring and um somebody rolled their window down and said should
14:12
have stayed in school crew just busted out laughing but
14:17
uh it sounds a lot like that you should have stayed in school Douglas uh well I wasn't sure if somehow she had like
14:24
these like psychic abilities if she was like a Sylvia Brown or something and maybe had she had a vision and she just
14:30
saw like these big you know Pie in the Sky kind of things for me or whatever I don't know never know you're gonna make
14:37
it one of these days just stick with this thing you're all right it was pretty funny so yeah it's funny we
14:44
talking about collectors and and multiple shows in different cities and that does get me back to uh the fact
14:51
that there are people that uh are art show fans and I feel like that used to be a thing that would happen with the
14:57
Florida Circuit and folks would go down and and you know if they weren't into the beach they'd go and and they'd run
15:03
around to the Florida Circuit like every 20 miles you're talking or what oh yeah
15:09
you can't throw a rock um but yeah but I I you know what's funny I actually have applied I said I would never do it again
15:15
but since I moved to New Mexico but I actually did apply we'll see if I could make it work but I did apply to some
15:21
Florida shows this year I I find myself in the doldrums of winter kind of
15:26
wishing that I had and so let's let's give uh will Armstrong art some
15:31
some options right let's see what we can do I think I spent a fair amount of time
15:36
at my computer screen yesterday getting those Florida applications Ino which I'm sorry I I I didn't want to deal with it
15:44
it's been like one of those things that I'm like I can't focus on next year when
15:50
we're still in the throws of this crazy year you know uhhuh and there you go I
15:55
mean a deadline was coming due and that kind kind of that peeled off the Band-Aid and I and I got those
16:01
applications in yesterday I have I started a bunch and I went back and yesterday I looked at them it's kind of
16:08
like my eggs you know you you you start the application and it logs you into your location so it doesn't even if I
16:15
finish one that's due tonight by midnight uh today the fact that I started it like a month and a half ago
16:21
it it makes it look like I finished once that zap thing batches that's how it it comes into the list isn't it do I
16:27
understand that correctly oh are you saying like the order of it's how it's being shown yeah oh I you know I don't
16:34
know because every show has the option to show the category randomly or to do
16:41
it as they're submitted uh don't tell me that baby on I don't want to hear that I really don't know I can't hear that no
16:47
it's all I I did a good job I did a really good job that's the way it goes good boy will good boy right I did a
16:54
good job boy oh [ __ ] I can't do do it I don't want to do any shows anymore watch
17:01
it I'm not going to get into any like I heard your podcast you don't want to do any shows we'll help you out with that
17:07
one yeah so Hey so uh you know getting home from a run of shows like this and
17:13
getting all moved in what does what does that kind of look like for you I mean I've thought about this I wonder if some
17:20
artists if they get home from a a long week or or you know busy run of shows do
17:25
they just like leave everything in the van and just take a couple of days off or do you just like hit the ground running I mean I don't know I had uh I
17:32
had to set my studio up so in order to I had to come back and I left at a dump typically I like to clean kind of clean
17:38
house before I leave but it was a scramble to get out of here and so it all fell on the studio so I I literally
17:45
had paint and like stagnant cups and I it was pretty nasty when I got in here
17:51
and so yeah I did it look like you got a a bomb threat warning and you had to evacuate the building immediately it's
17:58
more like hobos honestly just looked like a box car pretty pretty nasty so
18:04
yeah I I set my studio up and typically I will leave everything in the van just
18:10
I treat the van as a storage facility I never I never unpack I was curious if if
18:16
your work can sit in the in the van and if it gets damaged it's fine in there I yeah it doesn't get damaged I keep it
18:22
all varnished and everything it's not like it's temperature controlled but I keep it all tight so hopefully it doesn't warp mhm but um no I don't I
18:29
don't take anything out I typically leave it besides laundry you know there's the dirty undies theme of the of
18:36
the broadcast circling back uhuh it's all coming full full got a little recall
18:41
action as the as the com think Will has dirty unies on today everyone because he keeps talking about the dirty undies not
18:48
even got a solo Commando thing happening it's not pleasant but uh there's back to
18:54
the disgusting banter um man our nauseating nating yes yes would you love
19:01
to meet that lady on the road yeah not so much no I mean typically if
19:09
I have like more than more than four or five days I feel like it can knock a painting out so um but what I found is
19:16
that the kids have so many activities and they're in opposite parts of the city like I'm 20 minutes n I'm 30
19:23
minutes into town during rush hour and then 30 minutes back it's also during
19:29
rush hour and no kid is synced up like they got to go home and then get to
19:34
volleyball like there's a 2hour break so you got to get them home and they and
19:39
one can take the bus and get home but then you got to get out there get her which is the opposite time of picking up
19:44
the other one from cross country and it's I cannot wait until my kid can
19:50
drive because it's making me insane is that around the corner is it coming up or how old is she H she's 15 she just
19:57
got into driver's ed training so she'll get her she'll get her Learners so she's
20:02
uh 9 and a half months until she can she can drive on her own so next year you
20:08
know yeah next summer she can get her driver's license and and good God I mean I I remember those days you get home and
20:15
it's all about family again and then the whole juggling of because our show life
20:21
it occupies so much energy and focus you know when we go off to these shows and
20:27
then it's almost like we have to almost we forget about the stuff at home and then you get home and then it's like
20:33
you've got all of it you've got your art your work and then you've got the
20:39
regular stuff I'm spending about four hours in the car a day I'm not kidding like four hours of driving drive time
20:44
I've already burned through in three days I've burned through a full 30 gallon tank of
20:49
diesel wow I'm I'm uh yeah it's 4 hours a day so an hour in the morning and then
20:56
the the activities there's no carpol pooling I don't know a single one of their friend's parents they're like give
21:01
me your friend's par I don't have their number yeah right
21:07
convenient there's no car pooling today it's just a nightmare just everybody driving all at once oh you're saying
21:13
like in this day of raising kids that people just don't carpool I mean no not
21:19
at all nobody nobody ever it's it's one parent and one kid and there's nobody works together it's just a nightmare
21:26
that's just probably cuz I just don't know body yeah uh well our kids hated
21:31
the idea of riding the bus and we were like you are taking the boss because
21:38
literally I mean you can get a one piece made you have to turn around your day is already about being a taxi I hate riding
21:46
the bus well guess what I hate you not riding the bus and my hate is so is Advanced adult hate and it trumps your
21:54
child hate and so you get to get on that goddamn bus I actually uh succumbed to
22:00
that whole thing and I was like I don't know what I thought it was going to turn into Westside Story and they take a shiv
22:07
uh but they I was like oh you don't want to put him on the bus I was like wh why the hell not unfortunately like they do
22:15
after school activities and they can't ride the bus because there's no bus that's picking them up from from Sports
22:21
mhm you know so you want him to do Sports and music but then you got to that's where you got to give him a ride
22:27
it sucks yeah it sucks all the time my backd door neighbor at the last show was Steve uran uh was talking about was
22:35
talking all about that whole juggling of kids and show life and how hard it is to
22:42
like get home and you know you don't have the time to recoup from your
22:49
weekend and you are a full-on parent you know and what you just described is is
22:55
the total stress that we all go through absolutely abolutely and also the fact that you know being a divorced parent
23:01
and sharing the kids with their mom when we have them it's all of a sudden it's like go time all the time and same thing
23:08
for her and it's like she's got to be the one you know definitely it's just a it's a it's a different kind of juggling
23:15
looking back on your conversation you had last season with Annie basone and
23:21
you were saying it's like you I mean I can remember the conversation where you were saying that when you have your kids
23:27
it's almost like your art time gets really squished you know and when
23:33
they're gone you can be really productive in the art business but otherwise it's all about dad you know
23:39
Dad time yeah yeah I mean that that is the case luckily I mean I did get a
23:45
studio downtown so that I can at least get an early start but Man U that is the
23:52
case I I feel for the the parents out there who are who are doing the juggling and especially the double uh artist
23:58
parents too you know the the Jason bricks and Katie Harolds of the world who have young kids who are getting
24:04
ready to to to start school and and things like that so I heart goes out to
24:10
them as well as me my heart goes out to me Douglas you first and everyone else second right yeah move to a town that
24:18
has a kid Uber they've got something they're working on are they really is that a thing yeah you know I'm not sure
24:25
it's it's set up everywhere yet but I think in some of the more major things they they vet the drivers so they're not
24:32
just like free kids there you go like the Boy Scouts of America right God yeah that's a nightmare good
24:40
lord well the other thing about being neighbors with Steve that I thought was really cool um is he started doing this
24:46
thing with his neighbors where he'll do this collab thing and him and I did that this past weekend where he would did
24:53
stuff on social media where he would showcase one of his cabinets with with um you know a collection of our glass on
25:00
top and that had kind of an interesting reaction we had a lot of people see our
25:06
work who wouldn't normally have seen it you know through his followers and the same with me
25:13
people seeing his work who are our followers yeah that's smart that's really cool yeah so shout out to him it
25:19
was his suggestion and I I really am happy that you know that we did that Prett cool was that just a social media
25:25
post or did he have one of your pie is in his Booth we did a collaborative post that we sent out to all of our followers
25:32
that then get shared and he has his um his one of his older daughters work on that so she kind of is in the loop on
25:40
how to get that stuff out there I think some of us 50-year-olds are still feeling like we're trying to figure that
25:47
whole system out I don't understand what's the difference between a real and a
25:53
story I actually don't know I'm making you know Rip Van Winkle voice but that's B that's because I have a Long White
25:59
Beard I don't understand it yeah um but no I just you know I just I just push
26:05
buttons wildly when I'm I'm uh doing that I'm doing a reproduction I've been
26:10
call I shouldn't have done this here's I'm going to own this one okay I I am a huge collector of uh print making right
26:17
I love lithography and and Lino cut and real wood Cuts oh nice and you know the
26:24
harmston and I I mean all sorts of people I don't want to just get off in to listing but right um my wife and I
26:30
are both big fans and we collect it so it's pretty shitty when you go out and you call your reproductions prints oh
26:36
yeah right you know you're not supposed to you're supposed to call it reproductions and I I typically do but just add to the
26:43
confusion you do you know it's it's like well I pressed print it's a print F you
26:49
uh no you can't do it but I just did it so I just did that on Instagram um I did a big reproduction drop but okay I'm
26:56
going to ask you a question just aesthetically okay as you're a radio guy now I guess officially dipped my toe in
27:04
the water absolutely okay you're you're a recording artist okay so uh what sounds better as far as like
27:10
alliteration and kind of little you're onam on a p okay reproduction drop or
27:15
print drop of course print drop print drop sounds sounds rock and roll yeah
27:21
for sure print drop 2023 in your face uh so yeah it just it looked better it
27:26
sounded better rap actually it's got three syllables so sorry sorry Carol s
27:32
sounds like a robot you know yeah reproduction you are a robot you goddamn
27:38
machines that's what they're thinking out there so I apologize in advance but I did a big thing and updated my uh
27:44
website and called it a big print drop because I've been lazy and had not put any of my reproductions on there well it got me excited I mean um it's I've got
27:52
some of mine picked out and any listeners out there want to check out your print drop
27:58
go online I didn't pay for any advertising go online and get it it's a
28:03
good deal it's good work right it is it is 20% off this episode of The Independent
28:10
artist podcast is brought to you by zap the digital application service where artists and art festivals connect so
28:16
I've started using the events list feature in zap to search up some different shows to fill those holes in
28:23
my schedule you know I feel like I should have something to say but I wasn't really listening to you cuz I'm looking at the events list right now and
28:30
it's pretty cool okay okay so you drop the menu down and there at the bottom go scrolling all the way about third thing
28:36
down in the smaller print it just says events list that's right all of the shows appear here regardless of their
28:42
application deadline you can use the filtering and the Sorting to narrow down your search so that you can find that
28:48
right show that fills your desired time frame or location I know a lot of people love that calendar I like seeing the
28:55
list of events I like scrolling through through and doom scrolling late at night it's like online dating they don't let
29:01
you swipe left or right but you can figure out who you want to date in the coming up
29:07
year yeah that's really cool about what you got going there on your uh website
29:12
sale but I wanted to also take this opportunity to talk give a little bit of
29:18
news about our sponsors oh so um I know will you're not on the board of Nia anymore no nope you have I'm not you
29:26
stepped down I did and by stepping down that means that I no longer feel bad
29:32
about not attending the meetings I just don't attend any meetings still so really no changes I just uh yeah so not
29:39
on the board all right well got it I do want to share some kind of new things going on with Nia uh we've got kind of a
29:46
facelift going on we're updating the whole look of our marketing so there's a
29:52
new logo there's a whole new website that's about to get launched and come coming soon to a packet near you will be
30:00
this beautiful postcard telling you all about niia and and kind of promoting some of the the cool stuff Ania is doing
30:07
so look out for that very cool yeah that's nice um you know and there are uh
30:12
it does have a a breath of fresh air kind of the the board is getting a a bit
30:17
younger so it's nice to see that kind of branding coming up at I that's as I was
30:22
out the door I I kind of checked in and and saw some of the branding things and I was like oh yeah this is going in a
30:28
really good direction so I'm excited for everybody to see what what ni is up to well you like to use the Expression
30:35
smart guy we we're smart guys this uh go around here will we decided to hire
30:40
somebody that is actually in marketing Andy ucel uh Reiko ukat tell's husband
30:46
that's his job I mean he's website designer marketing and sat down with the
30:52
board talked about kind of our our vision for what we want to communicate and he translated that into a whole
30:59
layout and it's beautiful so look look forward to that everyone very cool I'm excited about that uh also as far as
31:07
sponsor news goes zap location zap is still doing their survey so get your
31:12
voice heard on that you can see it right as soon as you go to zapplication.org right up there at the top of the kind of
31:18
splash page they're asking for uh your input so make sure you check that out
31:23
and it's good I mean it's like if you have the opportunity to express your experience take it I mean if there's
31:30
something you want to communicate then do absolutely and if uh if you're not the type that to fill those things out
31:37
then you especially are the type that they want to hear from because I I I typically feel like it's almost like
31:43
polling you know when the polls get all so screwed up it's like well you're missing the entire audience of people
31:49
that don't like polling right so that's why it all gets screwed up so be loud and proud about it uh Douglas and I have
31:56
both gone on there and Phil build that sucker out it's super easy just take you a couple of minutes of your time and and
32:01
uh just do it while you're procrastinating um your uh your next application on online so so check it out
32:09
so like like will said you can click the the banner at the top of the page or I will have the the direct link in the
32:16
episode notes so you can just open it up on your phone and and click now what duglas you've mentioned those episode
32:22
notes a couple of different times um where where does one find those episode notes is but on the uh just where you
32:29
stream the show is that what you're you're looking at yeah whatever your whatever your podcast service is if you
32:36
open it up and hit see more information it'll open up a page information about
32:42
that particular episode yeah it'll talk about the guest that's there what we're going to talk about links yeah all that
32:48
good stuff so check that out and while you're filling uh stuff out and you're in a big filling stuff out mood drop us
32:54
a review and uh let people know the more people that review the show the more people that hear about the show so uh we
33:00
have had quite a few listeners uh over our time we have had 50,000 over 50,000
33:05
listens to our show so uh that is that's that's been pretty exciting little little Benchmark for our little podcast
33:12
that could so thank you out there for listening to the to the broadcast we gave ourselves a little pat on the back at that point I mean that was a it was a
33:18
kind of a nice uh a nice achievement don't you think absolutely I think so yeah so speaking of those 50,000 uh
33:27
listens a lot of those questions and and comments and things that our guests make
33:32
while Douglas and I are putting these things together a lot of times we don't have time to go back and talk about some
33:38
of the things that were said and uh some of the interesting points that some of our guests have made so we thought we
33:44
take the opportunity this week to kind of rewind the tape on on the past episodes and and review and comment upon
33:51
some of the things that that our guests have said so uh you want to kick us off Douglas sure I mean there there's a lot
33:57
of times like we've had to record our preambles just for timing sake ahead of
34:03
the recording and so when I'm editing the interview I'm thinking to myself oh my God I wonder what will thinks about
34:09
that or oh I wonder what he would what he would say about that and so I've kind of gone back through the last year and
34:15
pulled out some of the points that we've you know that we've talked about with our guests but I don't know that we've
34:20
actually address with each other no yeah we never really get the chance it's funny we have some uh things in the can
34:26
where I'm like oh what a wonderful talk you just had with so and so and like you haven't even talked to him yet like
34:32
still like you still at this point haven't interviewed them but you can you can pretend you can um you can put me
34:39
through Ai and make me say just about anything you want at this point right you're telling all the secrets well I got them I'll lay it it's a break
34:46
down the third wall Douglas all right so uh what's the first uh first one you want to kick off what what's the first
34:53
first person here okay so this last year we had three Gs who brought up the heroes journey by
35:00
Joseph Campbell I've never read it have you read have you read it uh I drank a lot I can't remember you
35:08
can't remember I can't Comm no wait I got kind of but who no I I have read it
35:15
absolutely I have read it okay well I I I get the the theme which is like the idea that which seems really fitting
35:23
within our kind of career that we do where it's like these these these shows
35:30
and creating this body of work and the travel it really does feel like we are
35:35
kind of putting ourselves out there and kind of like throwing ourselves out there to Faith and fate I guess but like
35:43
Trey and and and Lisa Christine and Patricia they all they are all kind of talking about searching for their body
35:50
of work and relating it to to that the hero's journey hero's journey
35:57
basic yeah basically the hero's journey is I mean it's going to resonate with you all as you define it because it's
36:03
it's Joseph Campbell's Theory which it describes the common Heroes narrative so
36:09
somebody sets out on a journey uh they have a transformative adventure and then they come home right I mean what are we
36:16
freaking doing it every weekend right exactly as long as you got your eyes and your ears and your heart open I mean you
36:21
can you could you have the opportunity to have those Journeys pretty frequently doing what we do last episode you know
36:29
behind the scenes we kind of struggled to have a conversation about what we do
36:35
because we were so in the weeds with just getting ready to get off to the next one you know the the list was just
36:42
insane and it was kind of hard to be kind of introspective about what we make
36:48
and connecting with other people but there is just something about that
36:54
interaction out on the road that that is like food for me I mean it is it's a
36:59
spiritual kind of um of a replenishment is uh so when you're talking about that
37:04
as far as how you guys tick are you talking about the people that come to see your work or is are you talking about uh the people that you see on a on
37:13
a semi-regular basis the artist the artist well I I wasn't thinking about the artist that is a component the
37:19
social aspect for sure but I feel like the interacting with collectors who who
37:25
get so excited about what we all do I don't want to just say it's like me but what we do it's the source that makes me
37:33
want to come home and keep working I don't know what is that that experience like for you um you know it's it's
37:38
twofold I mean I do find that during the winter months when I when I don't have a lot of shows and you know I've got that
37:44
introvert extrovert personality where when I'm left alone I really want to be left completely alone to make work and
37:51
that can go for days and days on end and sometimes a weeks if I'm if I'm lucky I
37:56
really only just want to see my wife and kids and that's it and then at the end of that I'm like man I need somebody to
38:04
respond to this work and tell me whether they like it and it's like I haven't been told I'm great in a while need to
38:10
get on the road yeah and then you could also go to these shows and it's especially damning to to the the ego
38:17
when you have gotten ready for a show that's been good in the past and then you go and you fall flat and you're like
38:23
oh my God not only did it not give me what I needed it took took away from me
38:28
what I had to keep me going so that's a danger that I found myself falling into
38:34
um you know just the ups and downs of of this industry and sometimes you're the opening act which I've I've said before
38:41
and and you're the opening act to somebody else's great show and they gota they got to have somewhere to walk on
38:47
the way to somebody else's booth and it just happens to be your 10 by 10 so it's
38:53
it's a tough business and to to keep your heart open and keep making good work when you know you think it's it's
39:00
good and you've had kind of a [ __ ] weekend man I feel like I'm one show away from from despair at all times and
39:08
self-loathing um it's it's tough to to keep it going and I know you didn't necessarily ask
39:15
that with this question but that's that's just where it happened to be yeah I want I I want us to kind of just go
39:20
with it wherever wherever it happens you know because I I know exactly what that
39:26
feel you're talking about where you just you know you suddenly feel like you're
39:31
in a slump and you need those those whether or not they buy or not but you
39:36
need that that something to push up against like okay I'm not like missing the Mark here you know the enthusiasm is
39:43
is like so needed for what we do absolutely and sometimes it means that like St Louis uh one of my favorite
39:50
Parts about the show has nothing to do with the actual show but the fact that there is a central Hotel like typically
39:57
we go to these shows and there are multiple hotels and options for you to stay this particular one happens to have
40:04
a great restaurant and there's it's kind of one of the only ones and it's got a great bar and pretty much every night
40:11
and especially Sunday night there there is just a huge get together of people
40:16
and and it just means a lot to to be able to walk in and you know you get to
40:22
to drop in for five minutes and talk to David beom and his his bill or you get
40:28
to see Amy and Phil uh come in and and get a chance to talk to them I think Phil cron had had posted something on on
40:35
Facebook about he just posted kind of open-ended God we're lucky you know and that's where it does feel lucky and I
40:41
did get a boost from that of just talking getting a chance to to see Phil
40:46
and and talk to him again in in the lounge and get a chance to talk to some
40:52
of these other um J James and Carrie Pierce were in there um my my lovely
40:57
wife and I got to go and we got to bring the dogs cuz it's a dog friendly hotel so I got to go to a party with some of
41:03
my very favorite people and bring my dogs which is amazing you know well not
41:09
only being just like centrally located when I checked out I actually thanked the front I'm like please pass on to the
41:16
sales team thank you for giving us a decent rate you know I mean it was it it
41:22
made it so that we could be there it made the show easier to do well I didn't
41:27
I didn't want to thank the front desk cuz the bartender was a Oh really God she was terrible we were spending so
41:33
much money with these people and and it's such a great party and every time you go to to to to refill your libation
41:40
um the hospitality industry has become less hospitable let's just say oh
41:45
totally they just they feel like they're doing you a favor and I guess they are but they're getting paid for it and
41:51
we're paying them if they have a good attitude about it so yeah I guess I just don't like young people anymore get off
41:58
my a sign of that long Gray beard growing in right yeah my it's what I was
42:03
talking to Eric oh this is amazing got to tell you a quick story about St Louis really quick I was L lucky enough to
42:09
have Erica Iman and her uh lovely husband Eric and and uh their little one
42:15
right behind my booth and and what great Booth neighbors but um they have they typically travel in a double Booth or
42:22
when given the opportunity St Louis is one that won't allow you to have a double you just have a single no matter
42:27
whether you have two bodies or whatever everybody you know even playing field everybody gets a 10 by 10 Corner they
42:32
brought their single Booth but they brought their double booth tent top so it was totally business in the front and
42:38
party in their rear their Booth out a mullet and they even tied it off in the back with a big ponytail so that was
42:44
like everybody uses their back storage for storage they had to use it for their Booth mullet so um I'll I'll post that
42:52
on our Facebook page because with their permission I took a little snapshot of their their Booth mullet that is hilarious honestly yeah really good
43:00
stuff but it I did used to say this uh when I was younger man cuz I've been doing this for 20 years and when I first
43:07
started to get into it and I'd start to get like all salty about certain things I I I had this joke that I I could feel
43:14
my ponytail growing in yeah because every one of those salty artists were just like hey here's another reason that
43:20
shows sucking you're not going to be a young man for long and it's like you can just feel you can feel that that salt
43:26
and pepper ponytail growing in but there you go um yeah they they had one man
43:31
they definitely they had they had it well uh speaking of um Erica Iman one of
43:38
the conversations that we had in her episode was the whole idea of of risk
43:43
and specifically what we were talking about was making of the work you know that idea of you you push the line
43:52
without crossing the line like you it needs to be kind of risky like I could lose this at any minute and then
43:59
sometimes we do I mean do do you ever have that reality in your work yeah and
44:05
you know there are shows that I feel like are more receptive to to different avanguard kind of you're you're weird
44:12
stuff and there are shows and that I you know they they typically will gravitate
44:18
towards those in Plaza I feel like is one of them I feel like you can get pretty weird at Plaza if you have the
44:23
time or it's a good opportunity to Showcase some some different work a lot of these shows are well Cherry Creek St
44:30
Louis Plaza a lot of these kind of bigger shows a lot of times will be those those markets for you know they
44:37
give you the opportunity to showcase some of your your different stuff and you know sometimes it works and
44:42
sometimes it doesn't so when you think of risk you're referring to kind of like subject matter maybe a topic that might
44:48
be a little edgier or something for me yeah I am I am and are for you guys it's
44:55
probably more technique it's pH it's physical it's definitely like if we heat the glass you know one second too long
45:03
it could just get away from us and it's writing that line if we stay back from
45:08
writing that line it just it loses its Pizzazz it loses that special quality
45:13
about it it's what I love about glass it's like an adrenaline thing I just
45:19
live for it honestly interesting you know I do have a tendency to rework or or to overwork my work
45:26
and uh what I've developed over the years is a very very clear steps in my work and
45:33
I've talked about that on the show before but as long as I'm following you know as soon as one step is over I shut
45:39
the door on that one so I can maybe rework that first step but um once that
45:44
one's done I'm like okay I'm done with that on to step two and as soon as I'm I'm done with like the five steps of the
45:50
work it's done I'm never going back and and reworking something completely well
45:55
I think think that when I when I am in your booth and I'm looking at your work up close and all the detail every little
46:01
choice of all the all the things you add to your your paintings and I'm thinking
46:07
there's just so many layers to it and so many ways to go with it and I can I
46:13
could see that if if I were you I wouldn't know where to like stop you
46:19
know what I mean like yeah you know it's funny like I try to say I say this to clients all the time but it's part of my
46:24
my spiel so if I if I get into robot voice then I apologize but I do try to
46:30
say as much as I can with as few shapes as possible so it's like it's an illustration technique that I picked up
46:36
in school and kind of working through that so that part of it once I have that
46:42
sketched out I'm like okay now to simplify it with the black or with the ink it's almost like comic book drawing
46:47
but but thanks I but I do feel for other artists that talk about you know I I
46:53
can't remember whether it was Beth talking about Beth borski or Mark winter talking about his wife Beth borski it
46:59
might have been Mark witer but I think he was talking it could have been him talking in a private conversation too but he was talking about people just
47:06
never really knowing it's like well this this didn't work I'm going to rework this I'm like well how many times can you rework it and it's like well it's
47:13
endless and that part in my own psychosis in my own anxiety I I have to
47:19
have those finite steps or I'll never let a piece be yeah you'll have five
47:24
five paintings on top of a painting right well yeah and you can see a spot in an illustration style like I've got
47:32
that uh you can see where I've reworked something because I have to go back in and paint you know take the gesso out
47:38
and repaint it white on top of it and so the layers no longer shine through so um
47:44
anyway well another element of risk that we addressed a lot this year was the
47:50
like the physical rest I mean look at like David Mayhew going out and chasing tornado to get his artwork or Lisa
47:58
Christine doing her human rights activism with slavery with with
48:03
documenting slavery or or even like Ry hopping on a raft and fleeing Cuba I
48:11
mean these stories were just like so not crazy but just like intense are you
48:17
saying they they have more risk than than uh me putting some gesso on a guy that I didn't like those guys I really I
48:23
really admire them yeah I really admire that I I do too and uh I I meant to talk
48:29
to Lisa Christine I saw her at the little St Louis Sunday party and I meant to to go over and speak to her and I didn't so if I if I came off um she's so
48:38
she's so interesting and she's so intense that I I kind of I got scared I didn't want to talk to her I get scared
48:44
I did I got scared I didn't say hi hi I'm right there with you and I told her
48:50
this so this is she's not scary she's just like she's so cool I told her
48:55
Valley I said I'm sorry I get a little like Tongue Tied I'm a little intimidated and she said stop it you
49:01
stop it right now and she gave this big dog she is so approachable I think I came off like sometimes you know you do
49:07
that and they're like God I think I just big leagued you you know and I'm like that's my I'm like God I I just that's
49:13
that's my biggest fear I don't want to go in be like yeah what an [ __ ] yeah you know I just like I'm I'm the least
49:18
bit trying to do that I try to be as kind as I can but sometimes I'm scared of the lady I want to talk to the lady
49:26
scar scaredy cat works better than me and it's more interesting as she takes risks and I gesso little dudes in my
49:32
pieces I just put a little guy anyway anyone who's into those stories you should you should go back and listen
49:38
again or listen for the first time those those three artists had some very interesting stories about risk so cool
49:45
well another thing about you know risk is is kind of the physical challenges
49:51
that a lot of our guests myself included you included I mean we all have been
49:58
going through all these physical struggles over the last number of years and those talks were pretty powerful
50:05
with cat Tesla Oliver hample and Anthony Hansen I feel like U I had such a minor
50:11
fixable uh thing that uh it's such a minor actually you know here not to talk
50:17
about you know me me me but if you're if you're in the least bit a football fan uh Aaron Rogers had a achilles snap and
50:26
they've got it on slow-mo and you can watch the Achilles go Bo in his leg and it just you can see that's exactly what
50:32
it is down flounder on a dock like you said you were absolutely flip flopping
50:38
all over he was much more of a man about it than he was he help me I just H he
50:44
had all he had other muscles to draw from but he he hopped on the cart and was just like nope get the cart and he
50:50
can't walk so that that was interesting walking around on a flippy floppy Daffy Duck foot but so many of our artist
50:56
friends um cat is just a goddamn inspiration every day every time I've I've listened to that show um she's
51:03
incredible and her her cancer uh battle her and her husband too because what a
51:08
what a good supportive dude he is so so um that's an incredible episode absolutely and Oliver going through the
51:15
next round oh my gosh right for sure his his brain anism we we talked about that
51:21
but the thing that I that I took away from all of that was what are what Anthony Hansen had to say and that was
51:28
how little it takes as humans to show empathy to somebody who's having a hard
51:34
time absolutely and that makes all the difference in the world yeah empathy is what it's all about and and even anybody
51:41
just kind of going through you know whether they're going through either side of a divorce or it's just a little bit of empathy goes a very long way and
51:48
uh how are you doing by the way we haven't talked about your your uh your foot it's been a year since you've had
51:53
your surgery maybe a little bit over it's crazy CU we are coming to like the year anniversary of it and I am having
51:58
all of these kind of like moments where I'm it's like a full circle thing like
52:04
I'm having memories of last year when I had to get I had to pull myself off the road and I had to prepare for my my
52:11
ankle to be completely rebuilt and up until about a month ago I was
52:17
questioning if I made the right choice because I was worse off than before the
52:22
surgery right and so it's been a long road so where do you stand where do I
52:28
stand do where do you stand honestly some it's like this the the clouds have
52:34
parted and I'm not 100% there yet but I am so much closer I'm better now than
52:40
I've ever been on this ankle and I am really starting to feel hopeful and
52:46
positive so that empathy that people that is talking about that people have shown me it's it's gotten me through and
52:54
wow I finally feel like I'm at the point where okay the show season is done and
53:00
now I can start focusing for the first time in a couple of years on innovating
53:06
and starting to do the things that Renee and I have had to put on hold in the studio and we can actually start trying
53:12
new things it isn't just like sticking the thumb in in the hole in the dam you know it's it's finally a creative period
53:20
again so I'm looking forward to that that's incredible I'm really really happy to hear that I remember back at um
53:26
just Oldtown in June in Chicago and you having a really hard time because of the slope of the street and me not even I'm
53:34
like I I was worried about you at that point because I didn't feel like that that street was that sloped like I'm
53:40
like that this one is this was this is not bad How is how's my buddy going to be when he gets to Park City um I just I
53:48
was worried about you at that point so that's fantastic to hear and and I haven't you know I remember right before
53:53
the the uh operation and and having some conversations with you about uh Innovations and different ways you want
54:00
to take some wall pieces and things so I'm excited for for you and Renee having her her partner back too and getting
54:07
some of that too so yeah um that's that's fantastic new and the good thing is I was talking to Mark Lansky about
54:14
this where you know how I don't know if it's different for people who work in a
54:20
more threedimensional and with materials whatever but when you kind of feel like you've got like a new body coming or new
54:27
kind of where it involves experimentation with the materials yeah that this time period that we're giving
54:34
ourselves is really it's an investment in your future I mean you kind of have to step back from what you can produce
54:42
regularly to experiment and see where is this going to take us yeah and and where
54:49
you know I'll say this too because sometimes those those steps that we take are not um I did a a series that was not
54:56
successful on the street you know it just didn't didn't end up flying off the off the shelves like I wanted it to but
55:03
I did have to learn how to paint a little bit differently uh so in that instance the other pieces that I make
55:10
are stronger so you know while I'm not thrilled with the results of the one
55:15
series um I got to I got out of my system and I'm I'm on to something else
55:21
so um yeah I I do feel like sometimes you're going toar something whether you wanted to or not and and it may not
55:27
always be the case it's not like a direct correlation like maybe the thing that you've dreamed up right the energy
55:34
you put into that might actually benefit a different body of work you know what I'm saying yeah and it sometimes it
55:40
takes another artist to I remember Jay McDougall came into my booth he was another one of my neighbors um God we
55:47
had a great neighborhood um I was right next to my wife and then like in our quadrant we had Erica Iman Jay McDougall
55:54
my wife myself so I was like I couldn't have been happier with that and then like right across the way I was sharing
56:00
space in my quadrant with Michael Paul Cole amazing photographer and found object frame maker and honestly just one
56:07
of the gentlest dudes to talk to you know just his voice makes you um I got
56:14
to get him on the podcast if we can that would be awesome because his I mean he's he just like okay Zen In The Art of of
56:20
being that guy yeah so um see what we can do on on that in right for sure
56:27
would love to hear her talk with him podcast wish list all right we'll add it to the list um and then kind of moving
56:34
on to another topic we've covered over the year is most recently with marinaa
56:40
rose about this idea of high-end highbrow Galleries and feeling like the
56:49
art show world the that we do the art fairs and stuff maybe doesn't fit in
56:54
like how they can navigate the two together you know so we've got like uh
56:59
Kirsten stingle and and Tom waran they also talk about doing like you know art
57:05
Miami and doing the high-end galleries but then how we can navigate working in
57:12
this world right what are your thoughts on that um what just keeping it balanced and and and trying to do different
57:19
different things and um as far as that goes and correct me if this isn't what
57:24
you asked but I'll be I'll be a politician about it and just answer the question that I wanted you to ask well
57:31
it's openend so honestly just wherever um let somebody else do the heavy lifting the galleries that I am involved
57:38
with let them if they want to do the big shows I've had a couple of them come to me in the in the past and be like hey
57:44
are you interested in this if I apply to this show as the gallery would you be able to um help be a force with that I'm
57:52
like absolutely you know what time of year Etc um yeah I can I can supply you
57:57
with work for that and I'm I'm on board that's going to be tricky too like it's it's um okay well I don't want to pay
58:05
for the booth um but I will uh Supply my work still at the 50% and you do with my
58:11
50% that you're taking whatever you want to do you know what I mean like if you want to do sofa or a Art Basel or
58:19
something like that um I still am going to I'm still going to want 50% of my my sale price mhm even if it's the only
58:26
piece that's sold in your $25,000 Booth you know what I mean yeah I still want the $1,500 from the $3,000 painting
58:33
right so I don't know I'm more into letting somebody else take the risk and let that be part of their calculation
58:40
yeah I do I I I hear you there and and I like what marinaa was saying about how when she came out of art school and she
58:47
had thought to be a serious respected artist she was going to go the gallery
58:52
route and when she had her entry on on to art fairs she felt that sense of
58:58
tension that sense of I don't do that and she felt kind of snobby about it you know why don't do that but now she has
59:06
worked her way into that market and she has found a way to keep Both Worlds
59:12
happy and to be funnels that she is satisfied with and I think that that is
59:19
really really a cool way to to look at that so if anyone is struggling with how do I navigate art show world
59:25
with Fine Art Gallery world she was a good one with a lot of input on that one
59:31
I thought right that is a that is a really good uh part of her talk um yeah
59:36
and I know I didn't really answer your question but I do I do have a hard time like the the one gallery that I really
59:42
do love is run by another art show artist so I don't ever run in they know exactly what I do because they come from
59:48
this world and entered that world so I don't really have to answer those questions I'm I'm lucky in that respect
59:55
I like that that they come from this world and I like that what you're saying
1:00:00
about you know as artists we get to curate who we work with you know some
1:00:05
galleries if they put restrictions or something on us that isn't comfortable
1:00:11
for us in our business model kind of coming back to what we talked about earlier in in this episode is saying no
1:00:17
to them is okay that there's strength in that and it's cool that she knows or
1:00:23
this other Gallery knows what your experience is and it maybe makes for a better working relationship
1:00:29
then it does yeah so it's really funny I was looking for a Chuck Close quote to
1:00:35
tell you about about artists saying no and instead I came on a Warren Buffett
1:00:40
quote that almost says the same thing and it's almost like um you know I've talked about different musicians and and
1:00:46
musical artists talking about the the important thing being the space between the notes this is like the difference
1:00:53
between successful people and and really successful people is that really successful people say no to almost
1:01:00
everything and that's a Warren Buffett quote so oh my gosh um I'll I'll skip the uh Chuck Close I mean because don't
1:01:05
we have to be a little Chuck Close and a little Warren Buffett in order to be any any kind of success isn't that the yin
1:01:10
and the Yang I vasate between that because then there's this other school of thought where they're like say yes to
1:01:15
everything because you we might be afraid to step into something unexplored if we if we you know our if
1:01:24
our first reaction is to put up a wall so I mean I don't know I guess you have to feel in creativity I think that that
1:01:30
you have to say yes to your own create creative process but when somebody's asking for your time it's like I think
1:01:36
it's a lot easier to say no you know it's a lot easier to say no that's not my oh can you do this can you do that so
1:01:42
can you I see your style can you do this comic book illustration can you do this I'm like nope nope nope nope NOP can you
1:01:49
do my t-shirt um the only thing I say yes to almost every time is uh album art I love doing album art and I typically
1:01:55
do it for free okay so that's I just like it unless it's going to you know I mean the stones haven't come knocking uh
1:02:02
I'd probably you know I charge them actually you know what a Stones fanatic
1:02:08
I am yeah their new album are they got a new album coming out in October their new album is Art the art is [ __ ] it's
1:02:14
terrible it's some of the worst album art I've ever seen I would have given it to him for free you want talk about
1:02:20
exposure good God talk about understanding the assign and oh man it's just like this digital
1:02:29
AI looking shitty airbrushed 90s it's hard
1:02:36
when your heroes are are not you know living up to the album art as you would
1:02:42
want them to oh God I just yeah hopefully the album's better than the album art good god well the I've never
1:02:48
said this to a somebody who comes in and wants a special glass piece like when
1:02:53
they they will want something from us and they say we do exactly what they want and when I get to the end of what
1:03:00
they're describing I'll be like the only thing in common with what they're describing to me is that it's glass you
1:03:06
know what I'm saying it's like right and I'm like well what exactly about my work do you like except that the the material
1:03:13
I'm using is what you're looking for right you asked me a couple of different
1:03:18
times over the show if does anybody say anything stupid to you and I don't know why I've been drawing a blank but I'm
1:03:24
like ah whatever I guess I just stopped dwelling on it but I remember one in particular this guy came into my booth
1:03:30
and he saw that he was uh you know he saw my booth sign and uh oh Richmond Virginia it's where I lived for most of
1:03:36
my life and he's like Richmond Virginia oh man I love Civil War art and I was
1:03:43
like okay and he's like uh that's what that's what you do I was like no that
1:03:51
I've never never and he's like yeah Civil War art totally it's just really I
1:03:58
was like okay he's like can you uh so this is what you do when you you paint the Civil War I'm like I've never like d
1:04:06
ever painted the Civil War at all I I hate actually and he was like what I was
1:04:13
he's you're from Richmond I was like yeah I don't I hate Civil War art I'm
1:04:19
never I will never he's like well would you do a a thing like with like a Robert
1:04:25
E Lee and I'm like like dude no I will not I will not paint Roberty
1:04:31
Lee I actually did have an idea that's whatever I I did like during um the
1:04:37
demonstrations black lives matter demonstrations and George Floyd uh demonstrations I had an idea to kind of
1:04:43
Honor that movement and it just wasn't my story I just couldn't do it you know it's like I I kind of wanted to do I
1:04:49
don't know I wanted to to team with a graffiti artist and then like they were like um
1:04:56
no coule of the people I talked to they were like no that's that's not what I do
1:05:02
and I'm like perfect good yeah just say no just say no all right and then to to
1:05:07
to kind of wrap up our episode here is the conversations that we had with
1:05:13
people like you know duke clawen or or the the zachman or Amy Flynn there's
1:05:19
just they have so many stories from the road and I just feel like I mean that I
1:05:24
mean there's so many reasons we do this podcast and the cool thing with our
1:05:30
conversations really is kind of like sharing amongst ourselves those outrageous stories that you know you
1:05:37
just can't make the [ __ ] up you know no yeah absolutely yeah I totally get it
1:05:43
it's funny I mean you really can't and it's I don't know a lot of it keeps keeps you going and a lot of it kind of Beats you down but uh man just keep keep
1:05:51
saying no people it's uh it it'll it'll get you there right that's right well
1:05:56
will this has been a fun kind of look back and end of the summer kind of wrap
1:06:01
up of of the season and it's been kind of a really good talk I'm really happy we had it yeah it's been a good year uh
1:06:07
for the most part and and a lot of times this this thing has kept me going so I appreciate you sir and thanks for doing
1:06:13
all the work that you do on on the show as well um folks we've got a lot of exciting things coming up as we get back
1:06:20
into our Studios and and uh some really fun people to talk to some information
1:06:25
and and inspiration and and that's what we're trying to do as well as a couple laughs so uh thanks again for tuning in
1:06:32
and uh we'll see you in a couple of weeks all right see you in the streets of Kansas City speaking of Plaza what do
1:06:38
you think they're going to drink out of this year uh is it fishbowls or Campell pack fish bows maybe just this time just
1:06:44
like a wheelbarrow I think they're going to be buying sigworth glass vessels and they're going to be filling those full
1:06:51
of margaritas or whatever though there you put in it F them with Hooch put a straw in that and get it done all right
1:06:58
Douglas we'll see you next time all right take care this podcast is brought to you by the National Association of
1:07:04
Independent Artists the website is nii artists.org also sponsored by
1:07:10
zapplication that's zapplication.org and while you're at it find us on social
1:07:15
media and engage in these conversations be sure to subscribe to this podcast to be notified when we release new episodes
1:07:22
oh and if you like the show we love it if you would give us your five-star rating and offer up your most creative
1:07:28
review on your podcast streaming service see you next [Music]
1:07:52
time



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