Magic Carpet Ride/ Trés & Helene Taylor

Trés & Helene Taylor https://www.trestaylor.com/ took a leap of faith in 2019 by relocating to Selma, Alabama, to further civil rights activism through their art. As they stood in the doorway of their home for the first time, they both cried, but for very different reasons. Helene expressed tears of joy, but for Trés, it was fear.  In this episode, the Taylors share the "signs from the universe" that have directed them along the way, even during the difficult times when facing their mortality. These signs have served as encouragement to hop on that "magic carpet ride" and not look back.

In the preamble discussion, Douglas and Will discuss family distractions, exhibitor theft, reality show opportunities, and when your art is used for show publicity.

Visual artists Douglas Sigwarth https://www.sigwarthglass.com/ and Will Armstrong http://www.willarmstrongart.com/ co-host and discuss topics affecting working artists. Each episode is a deep dive into a conversation with a guest artist who shares their unique experiences as an independent professional artist.

Please help jewelry artist Hannah Long who had her entire inventory stolen at her last show. GO FUND ME LINK FOR HANNAH LONG


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Transcript

0:00
[Music] foreign
0:12
artist podcast sponsored by the National Association of Independent Artists also
0:18
sponsored by zapplication I'm will Armstrong and I'm a mixed media artist I'm Douglas sigworth glassblower join
0:25
our conversations with professional working artists
0:31
hey everybody welcome to the show so I'm looking into my computer screen and I
0:36
think I'm looking at my friend will Armstrong actually I'm starting to wonder if it's an AI generated version
0:41
how can I know it's really you will come on I am a robot nice to see you Douglas maybe you should ask me to identify a
0:49
bridge or a traffic cone there you go oh I can't by the way those aren't motorcycles people I'm trying to
0:56
identify motorcycles those are scooters God damn it that's right let's get really clear on what we're supposed to
1:01
be finding in these recaptions come on no criticism to our our sponsors zap there but uh it is my own personal
1:08
defect that I can't seem to to recognize a bridge is that an overpass that's not a bridge is that a is that a railroad
1:16
crossing I'm not sure it's like you know those uh test questions where they say if you have to
1:22
think about it too long just pick an answer and move on if you can't do that you can't get into your account if you
1:27
don't find the exact right boxes try again try again I think it's uh on three
1:33
I think is is my uh my worst score and be like try again please try again I'm
1:38
like I'm gonna get locked out of my account because I can't identify like traffic though that's funny well here it is about
1:45
almost 10 o'clock we were gonna get together about nine and uh things kept happening you were still in the studio
1:50
having a little studio time this morning and trying to catch some art time in before we met I was like well I got time
1:58
I can I can run over to the coffee shop grab some coffee quick bite to eat art show world
2:04
have you ever tried to do something real fast and then you run into Jack journey
2:11
I love him he's uh that was amazing I have actually I look for him every time I go to that coffee shop because we we
2:17
our studios are in the same complex but um I I look for him every time and it's
2:22
been several months since I've seen him and I was like man where's Jack and all of a sudden the one time I'm like I got
2:28
like 30 seconds I'm gonna jump in there grab a cup of coffee and and come back and start to talk to Douglas but you
2:35
weren't able to go in and out Incognito you you run into people you know and it yeah and I I think and I only know four
2:42
people here I don't have any I really I don't have any friends here I don't know anybody I
2:48
just I know let's see uh let's see my ex-wife and her partner so that's two my kids for my wife uh so we're up to five
2:57
jack Pam Caden I know the lovely uh um Jennifer Cavin and her husband Reese
3:04
who I I Adore and and uh Allison and Eric antelman and that's it that sounds
3:10
like a tribe this let's just keeps on rolling man I guess probably don't a few people uh well I guess but it's honestly
3:17
it's been uh maybe three weeks since I've talked to somebody besides my wife and kids so it's been a while yeah you
3:24
know it's funny we talk about it uh LaQuinta is coming up and and our different Trey who we're going to talk
3:30
to again uh second parter because I can't um I can't I can't keep that thing
3:35
down to an hour with a such a I had too much to talk about we still left a lot on the table it was it was so many
3:41
stories but every story he told had such meaning so yep we've got a great part
3:47
two coming up today yeah and I really uh excited for you guys to hear with Helene kind of getting down into the social
3:52
aspect of of the work as well so I love that yeah so what's going on in your
3:58
world sir how are you well it's pretty good I'm up this morning and preparing for uh our what's it called snowmageddon
4:06
they say when we're gonna like Gates of Hell Are Gonna unleash their weather wrath on us here in Minnesota apocalypse
4:13
all right that's an apocalypse they're saying it's going to be the worst blizzard ever in the Twin Cities ever in
4:19
the Twin Cities that's insane yeah I was talking to my brother-in-law last night and he was saying that like they
4:25
pre-canceled school which is they did they never do that never never say
4:30
tomorrow and the next day they just said blanket cancel for two days yeah usually it's like let's see what actually
4:36
happens because you know they'll predict something and it might be a lot less than what they expected but nope they
4:42
just cleared out the rest of the week for people yeah I have actually been living through that we had an impromptu
4:48
spring break oh winter break for the kids which okay we all kind of wanted to
4:53
kill each other at the end of it but so we okay they have a scheduled
4:58
parent-teacher conferences right on Thursday and Friday and then you've got President's Day on Monday so yay uh it's
5:05
production season let's have a five-day weekend they got two snow days on top of that they did two and a half snow days
5:12
so it's like eight days of cooped up kids in the house not doing anything
5:18
trying to um I don't know just plug them in just get
5:25
the extension cord and just put it in the back of their head put them into the couch it was kind of a nightmare to be
5:30
honest I haven't gotten anywhere I know exactly what you're talking about that their schedules never seem to Jive up
5:36
with our work schedules with with you know creating schedules does it stuff like that everything halts and you just
5:42
your dad also you have to focus on home 14 and almost 13
5:47
um you know 15 13 is what we're looking at coming up in a couple of months but um they're well into that zone where
5:54
they don't like you oh yeah and and I remember that age the most
6:00
inane thing will send them off into unstable hormones and mood swings at
6:05
least right now they're not choosing to hate me at the exact same time so at least I've got like one Ally that can
6:12
kind of like roll their eyes at their sister and see I'm like yeah you were doing that to me just like five seconds
6:18
ago and it's like you can't I don't know it's just driving them to school in complete silence is starting to wear on
6:24
me they are uh they've had about enough with the dad and and Dad's had about enough too so but they're off at school
6:31
and they got activities and we're good to go they're happier too I mean they're ready to be amongst their group and uh
6:37
let the uh the old man uh go do his business and leave them alone for sure
6:42
yeah old man needs to make some goddamn artwork for sure I get shows coming up well speaking of La Quinta I was looking
6:48
on social this week and there's a lot of great stuff going on in South Florida it was really exciting to see all the
6:54
different shows going on in the sun and the palm trees and awards it was great yeah lots of big shows happening down in
7:01
South Florida this this past weekend lots more coming up people driving to La Quinta doing cross-country from uh one
7:09
point to the other it's exciting to see but does that ever stress you out at all when you look at I I did delete uh
7:16
Facebook off my phone um uh Instagram off my phone I started seeing all these beautiful paintings and
7:22
and works of art that people are creating and to be honest it's just starting to stress me out yeah I have my
7:30
moments would I say maybe a month ago when yeah when Florida first started I
7:35
was where you are with that exactly because I couldn't get to work and I was kind of sitting
7:41
back and and seeing everything else going on but now I feel like I'm I'm in
7:46
the game and you know I'm making the pieces and I'm planning for the next one which is Houston in a month so
7:53
I've got this Renewed Energy about me that is just it's amazing I mean it's
7:59
amazing [Laughter] the editing goes but I have cut you off
8:06
a few times already this morning
8:11
like I really like this past eight days was supposed to be a big production time for me and having uh snow days and all
8:20
this other stuff I am uh it's it's just it's a lot you know you all of a sudden
8:25
you have a lot going on then all of a sudden you take eight days off and you're like yeah you're just kind of
8:31
screwed so it just adds the pressure I'm going away to Baltimore this coming up
8:37
week next uh By the time this year so that'll be fair is Monday I'll be leaving on Wednesday to uh plus one it
8:44
and sell some jewels and and go and do whatever they're calling they changed the name of ACC Baltimore which I know
8:51
they do um yeah what is it American handmade I believe now oh um instead of
8:57
American craft Council now it's the American handmade show they're trying to trying to do a little rebranding
9:05
um on that one they have the last couple years this is about new news but anyway I'm plus wanting it with her I'm gonna
9:11
go and um flirt with the ladies and put some jewels on them and and tell them how lovely they look and see if I can uh
9:18
eat my weight in Seafood Baltimore's great this time of year so it'll be good to have that one back and and head off
9:25
yeah yeah I'm excited to uh well I'm excited to see my folks they're coming
9:31
up oh you ever have people come and like family come hang out in your booth I've had distant relatives who maybe I hadn't
9:37
seen since you know maybe high school you know like oh yeah when that's the time you go to big family gatherings or whatever and they'll show up until let's
9:44
say 30 years have gone by and now you're 40 50 year olds and you're just standing there with your hands in your pocket
9:50
going yeah yeah what are you supposed to talk about like I haven't seen you since Hill Street Blues that's right Murphy's
9:57
Law for me though is whenever I have one of those folks come by yeah it's it's deadville like I was I was crushing it
10:06
in St Louis one year and had some of Susie's cousins come by who I I love
10:11
they're great I love it when they come by this was the year that Cherry Creek was the week before so I did Cherry
10:16
Creek right into St Louis and I was totally picked over and I had a couple of pieces like kind of the uh the garage
10:23
sale art fair pieces out if you will you know not quite my uh not quite my a game
10:29
yeah no offense to you Bonnie but uh that's what that show's for right right
10:34
yeah right yeah exactly anyway well I always feel like when those slow moments happen and the relatives come I think to
10:40
myself I hope they don't think it's like this all the time you know what I mean I hope that I feel like actually you know
10:46
know what it's actually like when we're really busy and rocking it you know well that's the thing it's I feel like also I
10:52
mean it's nice for relatives to come see you at a really good show but typically I feel like the relatives are always
10:58
coming to see you when you're at the like the hearing aid Festival in the Cracker
11:03
Barrel parking lot slumming it for the weekend in between A and B it's like ah
11:09
this is this is what you do this is huh not to belittle the hearing aid Festival
11:15
very good show very oh just you can really just move some trinkets that
11:21
doesn't exist speaking about South Florida and shows coming up uh I think
11:27
this is I don't know I'm not sure where we're at with timing but I think next week is the big Gasparilla show and I am
11:34
so excited to see Michelle mardis's work plastered everywhere on social media and
11:40
all over the place that it's just exciting it's exciting in a moment yeah sure she's having herself a little
11:47
moment right there her work is is kind of transitioned over the last like I
11:52
don't know four or five years and she's in this kind of Sweet Spot pocket yeah that uh she's just kind of crushing it
11:58
right now and I think that's a it's a terrific image for the Post sister and she's a good friend of both of ours and
12:04
man really happy for for her and and uh really cool to see I love seeing that I
12:10
love seeing friends work at so much publicity like that and be used that way so it's awesome she's having a great
12:15
moment it is well well deserved I'm looking at her schedule though and she hasn't been to to Fort Worth before I
12:21
don't think she was telling me oh she's got Fort Worth on her schedule and I'm like you better get ready get ready
12:27
better get ready load it up load her up I'm having a bit of a moment here out in
12:32
the studio and getting back to work and blowing glass and just feeling on top of the world and then I see the casting
12:40
call for Blown Away has come up again oh are you gonna are you gonna try that out again so we're working the studio on
12:47
Saturday so Renee what do you think cast and call season four blown away she gave
12:52
me a little bit of the side eye and she's like haven't we like had enough for the last year can we just like get
12:59
back to kind of normal I'm like okay okay okay I'm with her on that so I I gotta ask
13:06
you something yeah I told uh I was telling Susie about that because you you sent me a list of topics that you wanted
13:12
to talk about and typically just like a keyword here's here's what you know so I looked at the list and it was like
13:17
casting call for blown away I was like I wonder if he's gonna do that again and and uh her question was why why would he
13:25
why do that yeah what's the uh is it the prestige is it the notoriety is it Fame
13:31
I guess where it comes down to is I have been a fan of Survivor since it started
13:39
like 20 some years ago I had honestly thought when I was younger that that would be something that I might want to
13:45
do and this seems to be a reality show like in in my wheelhouse you know it's a fantasy it isn't something I would
13:52
really want to do because when you think of the logistics time out of the studio time away from our career basically to
14:00
possibly embarrass myself on TV on National exposure uh no it's it's bad
14:06
and the other thing is they're not really looking for it to be a real competition I mean they're casting
14:13
characters well you're a character I'm a character I realize that but the reality of the
14:19
show is they've got people on there who've been blowing glass for less than a year you know they're not really
14:25
casting a competition of like like for Top Chef for example where they're they're trying to to get them the the
14:33
best quality chefs and see who can be the best one at the end they've got like a handful of people who have this long
14:40
experience in working with glass and then they've got a bunch of newbies so it it isn't real I mean nothing on an
14:47
entertainment is technically real so yeah that's funny that you say that I've got a good friend um that did Top Chef
14:54
and then Iron Chef uh after that uh she was she's an amazing Chef in Richmond
14:59
Brittany Anderson she's a good friend but she did the first round they were like Far and Away you you win this
15:07
competition if you'd remembered to Plate five plates instead of four but she just
15:12
she had a brain fart oh 4 instead of five but it was they were like well this is Head and Shoulders above all of the
15:19
rest of the food but we can't let you win you didn't even you know one of us is hungry oh so she got screwed there
15:25
and but it was that an elimination for her then because of that oh yeah uh yeah it was the final I think that that was
15:31
the final and but she was good enough to make it then again on to Iron Chef and
15:37
um has done a lot of the reality things but has a couple of restaurants in in Richmond Virginia Metzger's which is
15:42
where my folks go treat them real well and Brenner pass that's another one if you're ever going through Richmond those
15:48
are your your spots to get your reservations nice that's you know that's an interesting topic talking about shows
15:55
and and um where to go and one of my favorite things to do we're talking to Amy Flynn a couple of weeks ago you were
16:01
and she was talking about the social aspect of it one of my top things that I
16:07
do is look forward to the restaurants I'm like oh man I get to eat at there's like a a crab cake just Dive Bar in
16:15
Baltimore that we go to we're gonna hit called Pete's but um I'm excited to go to Pete's you know it's right next to
16:21
the hotel and be like you want to just get a crab cake and a beer my wife is like absolutely yeah that's you know
16:28
that doesn't need any persuasion on that one that's a yes yeah I mean are you
16:33
excited about do you guys get excited about that kind of stuff as far as I'm traveling goes and and your favorite spots or your favorite little carrots
16:40
along the way yeah uh not so much the food I mean we're definitely Foodies we
16:46
like we like eating in good places are you yeah we like we like good food I mean I worked at a fine dining restaurant and so I was spoiled for many
16:53
years you know having very very nice nice food I mean ultimately we don't
17:00
always like to to spend the money on our 50 plate or something but um yeah no sure I do yeah no I just it's
17:06
interesting because I I sometimes if you've spent a lot of time in I don't know in fine dining kind of kind of
17:12
situation sometimes you can kind of see through it so a lot of times I'll be like you know four stars can be for me
17:19
uh or four or five it can be the dive bar with a crab cake or it can be like the I don't really want the tablecloth
17:24
and I don't even want the drizzle on the plate I want the oh on the side of the plate you know Hey look it's the red
17:30
dots you're reminding me of the of the movie called the menu that was on HBO
17:36
where it goes sinister [Laughter] oh you know what we did just watch that
17:41
I hate it then you hated it okay I thought it was so dumb it looked like it was like Scooby-Doo oh really I didn't I
17:49
didn't think that but that's interesting you say that what I did jive with is the did you see the whole thing or did you
17:54
like cut it yeah the whole thing I thought yeah I really hated it well what I did like is the commentary on how
18:01
these wealthy Foodies can kind of like manipulate what gets made for them like
18:08
they want this narrative and I thought this is kind of sounding parallel to the
18:13
art show world where where we get pushed to doing the Obscure thing to appeal to
18:20
the the heightened sensibilities of art collectors you know interesting interesting you so you thought of it
18:25
more of like um trying to solve the foodie palette as opposed to uh trying to solve the
18:31
artistic buyer's mind is that what you're saying they want to be like the buyers the collectors the the restaurant
18:38
goers they want to be special they want the the food that's been whipped into a
18:43
foam and has no flavor but you know you can create this narrative about it and make them feel good about themselves
18:49
that they are so special you know what I'm saying and and sometimes the more approachable hamburger or the hamburger
18:57
if we had the correlation to artwork that we sell on the street or that we
19:02
make you know what I mean that they're like that's looked down on well that's funny yeah I and my problem that I had
19:08
it's like okay they were trying to decide it was like a murder thing and they're trying to kill off all of the
19:13
guests at this fancy restaurant the chef has had enough with all of his clientele and it's like it lost me when it's like
19:20
the girl goes well I went to Brown on a scholarship you're like well you deserve to die like well wait a minute
19:26
my nephew goes to Brown deserve to die
19:32
no I honestly it did get a little yeah a little over the top for sure I don't
19:38
know I got the metaphor right away and then they started hammering the metaphor
19:43
in and it just seemed really one-dimensional well you're not alone with that my wife was the same she's like yeah you know I'm out this movie is
19:50
for you to finish I'm gonna go read a book or something it's all right well you and Renee are in the same boat on
19:56
that one yeah about 90 I'd say 85 to 90 of the entertainment that like my wife
20:01
and I totally Jive on but she kind of leaned over to me in the middle of that one was like
20:07
I think this might be dumb by Whispering I'm guessing you were in the theater because I I don't think you whisper in
20:13
your living room yeah we didn't want to wake the dog didn't want to wake him they have to play with him again he's
20:19
only two so here's I'm gonna totally change the subject on you um and and
20:25
give a heartfelt sympathies and empathy and uh whatever out there to you Jeweler
20:32
on the circuit hand along what happened I don't know anything Hannah long over the weekend after Coconut Grove had her
20:40
car broken into and her entire jewelry bag taken
20:45
um oh my gosh just I mean it's the worst nightmare that you can really come up
20:50
with the beginning of show season and all of her Jewels uh taken just uh she's
20:56
a fairly high-end Jeweler as well so breaks my heart breaks my heart I mean
21:01
nobody's doing that to us like I just can't like it just it's a punch in the
21:07
stomach because it happened to two dear friends out in Portland a few years back
21:12
um oh I remember that yeah yeah Janine and I apologize I'm gonna butcher your last name but at this point I've had so
21:17
much coffee I'd butcher my own decor genzo and uh Megan Clark happened to
21:22
them had both of their jewelry taken at the same time uh when they made a quick stop it must have been followed and they
21:30
popped right the jewelry bags were in the trunk locked in the trunk they went into a shop
21:35
boom taken and so that happened to Hannah long over the weekend folks I don't know what we're gonna have to do
21:41
but watch out for each other we really need to like be sure our Jewelers are safe I don't know how to suggest not to
21:47
get hit people are targeting you know people are getting targeted and but just if you can I just watch out for each
21:53
other be kind and and um I know there's a there I think there's a GoFundMe happening maybe or
21:59
um I'm not sure what kind of insurance but there is a GoFundMe set up by uh our friend Betty Yeager set one up for
22:04
Hannah uh so I will put that link in the episode notes so be sure to check that
22:10
out I my heart goes out to her and if there's anything we can do as an artist Community to to help her and and our
22:17
other Jeweler friends who are on the lookout I mean let's let's kind of band together and do what we can do that's
22:23
all can I hold your bag while you go take a dump okay it's just been confirmed that this
22:28
is not an AI version of will that I'm speaking to right now this is the real will has entered the it's analog baby
22:34
it's it's me it's the real deal all right so well we've got Trey Taylor's
22:40
part two this week we get into it with the Selma and and George Floyd and uh
22:46
the history of racism in this country it's heavy gets a little heavy it's a hard hard attacks and that can make you
22:53
um especially men I found yeah uh I've known a lot of men that have had heart
22:58
attacks now and it seems like it really affects you it really affects your like
23:04
emotional you know you you've seen the other side almost and it makes you makes you pretty emotional so but the tough
23:10
story and him bringing out the Silver Lining and all of it that was for me the takeaway because I'm feeling my own
23:17
sense of Silver Linings coming about and I I think that even though we do get
23:22
into these hard topics about race and mortality that at the end of the talk people are going to feel pretty inspired
23:29
and ready to ready to create and get out there here is Trey and Helene Taylor from Selma Alabama this episode of The
23:36
Independent artist podcast is brought to you by zap the digital application service where artists and art festivals
23:42
connect so will it's that time of year again when we all need to start getting stuff ready for taxes uh thanks for that
23:49
Douglas I appreciate that we all do quite literally I did get an email recently from zap they were talking
23:55
about doing line items and keeping everything together in one place yeah that's right I tried it out for myself
24:01
so when I was logged into zap I went to my profile and one of the options
24:06
further down the page is to download your transaction history amazing that's after you've proven to them that you're
24:12
not a robot by uh correctly identify the tractor before you play that lovely game
24:18
so once you've identified that you're an actual human it's super easy just to select your date range and then it will
24:25
create a report of all your purchases so you can hand off those booth fees and application fees directly to your
24:31
accountant so you're floundering around in the woods and you've had to relieve yourself
24:37
all over yourself in the middle of the woods and you're seeing snakes and you've gone through hell what made you
24:43
want to do it the second time ah well because Dante went to The Inferno but he
24:49
also went to paradision so yeah I wanted to see what that's like so I thought of
24:55
course gotta go back and do it again so in 98 I went back that time it was just
25:03
before I discovered art and so I put together this kind of trip I went back to the
25:11
ethno Botanical Garden called Sacha mama so I made arrangements for another this
25:18
time a different corindero and this time and I actually even said look
25:25
the first time was just terrible and I said if if you can I'd really prefer not
25:32
to have to go through that experience yeah right so we start off we drink the tea
25:38
and then this was a little bit Milder he might have kind of like okay this guy
25:44
we better give him half the dose but the thing I remember most about was
25:49
hearing all those characters from the Looney Tunes it was really just a kind
25:55
of like animation I don't remember any visuals as much as just hearing things a
26:02
lot of hearing hallucination type of things and it wasn't unpleasant
26:07
it wasn't a profound experience but what was interesting is that when I went back
26:14
I had an anthropologist friend of mine and I told him the experience he says well that's really interesting you know
26:20
and I don't know if this is true he says but Walt Disney was with Maria Sabina
26:27
this may be an urban myth and that's where the mouse came to him oh my God
26:34
that's incredible you know I I firmly believe in Mark Twain's never let the truth get in the way of a good story
26:40
right that's true as far as we are concerned right that's right exactly so
26:46
one of the things that I've read about Ayahuasca and I have not experienced any anything
26:51
like this I've I've not done it but it has been known to help people form New
26:58
Paths between certain things so for example if I am I'm going through a hard
27:06
day in my first reaction is to go to a and pour myself a nice whiskey at the
27:11
end of a long hard day and then that becomes a problem and then a crutch and
27:16
then you start relying on that it has been known to help people find different
27:22
paths around that or through it or or be even outside of yourself and recognize
27:29
that crutch or that path is that yeah I think that's a great description of the
27:36
tools that Ayahuasca can be used as there is a center in uh in Peru I can't
27:43
remember exactly where but it's in the Amazon basin and they basically take people who have
27:51
addiction problems although they can be for a lot of different things and they
27:57
will have them for a week spend time in the Hut by themselves they'll bring them
28:03
their food and then they'll leave but they'll be doing Ayahuasca on their own
28:08
the whole time yeah usually I think it's at night when their those rituals are
28:13
administered but during the day you know they're to process what happened the night before
28:19
and it does it is it causes I mean if you could call it a paradigm shift it
28:25
does it it I like the way you described it it sort of remaps the brain in some
28:31
way and this is again just things that I've read and heard about so it has a lot of great
28:39
potential to do to awaken people uh yeah and almost like a tool you know
28:46
I think yeah I mean there's such a problem out there with it being sort of a uh uh
28:52
entertainment like people are seeking for entertainment and so there's a big
28:58
problem with that and then that gets into the whole thing about set and setting and but if it's done in the
29:04
right way then people come to Faith themselves you know that's
29:11
I think the beauty of these things is you come face to face with yourself there's no more running away from it you
29:17
know yeah and I think a lot of people taking it as an entertainment are trying to I mean that just goes with a lot of
29:24
drugs or alcohol or anything trying to escape something whereas this seems to be when used the right way a way to face
29:30
an unavoidable maybe truth if that's right yes yeah it's um it's ironic
29:39
because you're dealing with hallucinations and yet you're dealing somehow about the truth
29:46
of yourself I mean it's a weird kind of combination of things hard to even
29:53
comprehend until you've done it you know right so you experience both of those
29:58
ceremonies and they were completely different uh for you but did you wake up from the second one with a similar
30:05
feeling you know it wasn't as memorable as that first one but I do remember after the experience
30:14
coming back to San Diego and within a couple of months
30:20
so that would have been in August and on January 9th I made my first painting yeah I often
30:29
think there was a clearing out yeah there's this is kind of interesting
30:34
um I I remember before going down I used to do a lot of meditating I remember I had this kind of
30:42
thing I'd sit at and it's a little altar I'd made I remember having this
30:48
experience where as if I were watching TV
30:54
and I remember these doors opening and these two hands coming out holding a
30:59
golden ball I never really thought too much about it but but when I look back on it I I think
31:07
and it was real close to all of what this was happening I can't remember if it was after the Ayahuasca but it was
31:13
you know there was this just series of these little what seemed to be unconnected events
31:21
yeah and then then discovering painting and this was kind of a vision that you
31:27
had yeah like but it while you're asleep no yeah meditative Division and it was
31:35
that's about the only Vision I can ever recall if I ever even hadn't but that
31:40
one was so distinct it was almost as if something's going to be given to you and
31:46
it's coming yeah you know brace yourself here it comes yeah yeah yeah uh so I
31:52
went back to Japan as an artist it was after I quit my job and went back to Japan as an artist but
31:59
before I went back I left San Diego and I was in Birmingham where my family was
32:06
living and I thought I'm gonna run down to New Orleans and try to get some art
32:12
in a gallery before I head to Japan so I went down I went to New Orleans I met
32:17
this uh owner of a folk art gallery he said you know I like your art but I
32:23
only deal in African-American and Haitian art and I said well I understand I said uh we're the folk artists of this
32:31
area I'd like to meet them you said they're all dead but I'll tell you where you can go see their art
32:36
it says there's the Treme Miller African-American Museum of folk art and
32:42
then there's the New Orleans Museum of Art well I had made it a a one-day trip and
32:48
I wasn't going to have time to do both of them and I thought that first one sounds interesting it's going to be too
32:55
hard to find so how do I get to the Museum so he tells me and I'm driving
33:01
in about 15 minutes later I come to a red light on my way to the New Orleans Museum and I see a tiny little sign I
33:09
mean if I had not stopped you know I wouldn't have seen the sign it said that Treme Miller
33:15
African-American Museum of folk art turn left here so I turn left and it was just a block
33:22
down and I see that it's this raised Cottage it was an old house and I opened
33:28
the gate and I go up onto the porch and I read about the the museum it's a
33:34
little plaque and then on the right side of the door was the history uh the you
33:39
know how historical homes have names and these blacks and so I read
33:46
it was something gold Goldthwait house and now my memory is failing me I'm
33:52
gonna just call it the tremeular Goldthwaite house it wasn't actually that but Goldthwaite was in the title
33:57
yeah and so I I was like that sounds so familiar what the hell is so let me just
34:04
walk off the porch and see what I'm looking at I'd walk off the porch turn around and then finally I realize
34:11
I'm staring at the house my my mother grew up and that my grandmother owned oh
34:17
my God that's that's incredible yeah so at that
34:23
point and how long I mean at that point how long it been since he had been back oh I so my mother had when she grew up
34:29
obviously in New Orleans and she used to take us when you know when we were kids to show us these houses that she grew up
34:37
in and so I had visited that house years before I think it was abandoned
34:44
and we walked around in the courtyard and just you know and and then I realized
34:49
leaving biochemistry and taking on this crazy idea of well
34:56
I'm I love painting so much I'll just I'm prepared to starve if I have to right but that was a confirmation for me
35:04
that this Choice was much bigger than just making the decision well I think
35:10
I'll you know it was driven by some kind of I don't know it's a very it's a
35:16
strange thing it is but it's connected right I mean that's the whole connection you know everything
35:22
hasn't had a thread yeah and it was it actually gave me the confidence to to
35:28
know that okay this is this is a journey and uh get on this magic carpet and ride
35:34
it and do not look back you know yeah and it has been that I mean just those
35:39
stories I wish we had a lot of time I tell you some just incredible stories that's why I'm here yeah so Trey and
35:47
Helene you live in kind of a hotbed of civil rights history and really just the
35:55
Deep South you're there in Selma Alabama and when George Floyd was murdered and
36:01
and the community kind of exploded and the world caught on fire you guys
36:07
reacted to that how could you not but I feel like it started off almost with
36:13
like a Facebook group of like what do we even do to some actual
36:19
action and I wanted to talk to you guys about your experience there in Selma and
36:24
kind of the community outreach that you you've done together to bring people together
36:29
positively so if you could talk to me a little bit about that I'd love to to hear more well
36:36
so Trey did design and schedule a mural as a reaction to the George Floyd murder
36:46
and we did it on a pretty large wall in
36:51
Selma and we partnered with the police and the sheriff department oh wow and
36:57
the idea was we as artists I mean what can we do is what your question was and
37:03
right I think one thing that we do and we can do is bring people together
37:10
and art is a fantastic bridge for that it you know it all ages all abilities
37:15
can come to the wall literally and and make art together and so the mural was designed it's
37:23
called coming together and the very first person to put paint on the wall was the sheriff oh and you know of
37:31
course he was doing it as public relations and the perpetrator of Bloody Sunday was a sheriff of course not this
37:38
sheriff and so that one stroke to me was huge
37:43
and we handed out stickers to kids you know like badges for police and and the
37:50
sheriff department and it happened to be at the time where Meryl race was
37:55
happening so a lot of candidates came and painted and brought their people
38:00
and it was just a beautiful experience and then we usually do the murals just
38:06
for the weekend and it was probably pretty late on Saturday afternoon which we were like oh we should do a closing
38:12
ceremony and so I literally like took a piece of cardboard and painted closing ceremony
38:18
Sunday two o'clock four o'clock whatever it was yeah and I do keep a list of all the people
38:25
that participate in the mural or we do because we write their names in the
38:30
murals which is you know it's part of the part of the artwork it's part of the artwork so and I have this whole list of
38:36
everybody that that participated and it was a little bit over a hundred
38:42
people and the mural told a story about how the
38:48
people come from the East and the west and they come to Queen Selma Selma is called the Queen City of the black belt
38:56
so we created a character named Queen Selma that Trey fashioned after a Healer
39:01
here and the mural told the story of people coming from the East and the west and bringing flowers which she released
39:09
in the river to restore the Dignity of all so we used Magnolias which are the
39:15
symbol of dignity and you know I talk about a magic that
39:22
happens at the wall and often the story that we're painting comes alive and that
39:27
is exactly what happened and so we decided we'll have this closing ceremony and we'll all throw flowers into the
39:34
river together well like I said just a little over a hundred people participated on the wall painting and 65
39:41
people came back on that Sunday which I'm always saying where do you get 65 participation right spur of the
39:50
moment yeah these experiences are infectious and I also think that that
39:56
showed how much of a need there was for this kind of just joyful celebration and
40:03
coming together and people brought flowers and we made kind of like wreaths out of just the
40:09
Kudzu next to the building and it was all completely spontaneous and we walked
40:15
to the bridge you know we have pretty famous bridge the Edmond Pettis Bridge
40:21
the Alabama River which we're new Selma folks and that Alabama River it's wild
40:28
it looks like the mighty Mississippi if I've ever seen one it's very very tumultuous you know it's it's got
40:34
serious current it's dark they call it the Amazon of the South anyway or is it
40:40
Amazon of the of America it has incredible diversity of fish and birds
40:46
anyway we we walk up to that bridge we're singing this is all completely
40:51
spontaneous and we release these flowers into this Mighty River and I cannot tell
40:59
you personally my experience was just you
41:04
know dumbfounded and yeah and so simple right I mean we as a community came
41:10
together to paint that was only our only goal is to paint and hopefully do a
41:16
little healing and and that's all we can do as artists to me is just create the access uh right
41:24
and I mean so many of us create our our things in our Studios by ourselves and
41:30
um and when it sounds like that that you guys and and Trey has done all his career whether it's creating like you
41:37
know a joker kind of piece of artwork on the corner of Japan on trash day or or
41:43
getting out there it's always been kind of a a shared thing and how do we how do
41:49
we do that as artists and bring it out of our Studios and you guys seem to have found some way to to do that and that's
41:56
taken on a life of its own all around the entire city of Selma right yes and
42:03
this whole area but it's really it's so simple you know I think we overthink things like yes oh we need to do this
42:10
and we need to do that and honestly somebody said well you can paint it on our building we're like okay and then
42:16
somebody said nice you know I I I'll call the sheriff and we're like okay and you know if they have their own energy
42:22
and actually it's one of the things we've learned through this whole project that Trey's done called the revolution
42:29
of Joy we've done nine murals through the black belt and sometimes there's too
42:35
many speed bumps or or turns in the Maze and we've realized like if that if
42:41
that's happening if there's these bulkheads happening then it's not going the right direction
42:47
okay you know you really have to kind of you know go with the flow or whatever but if you know really follow
42:55
how the community is um is working it you know if that wall
43:00
is too complicated like there's issues uh say it's on a busy street or say this
43:07
organization doesn't want to work at that wall because of this person and blah blah blah or stuff like that then
43:12
we realize oh well that's not then it's not supposed to be there you know that seems like a really clear way to look at
43:19
it I was going to ask you and and you know this this question may have a lot more to do with me than it does with you
43:25
but uh what kind of are you running into any kind of cynicism with that or has it
43:30
all been Joy we've had one particular critic what we were doing
43:37
she's a well-known activist and she's done some amazing things she and her
43:42
husband I mean the day that I met her they were speaking for the Doug Jones Campaign which is Democrat
43:50
the senator that was running and sure they've done some really great things but what I learned was activists have a
43:58
really important part in our role in our history of moving forward but they're
44:03
Fighters and they they have to fight and we are Community Builders
44:12
so we put all that aside and invite everyone right peace was actually
44:18
happening at the wall yes but they couldn't see it they could only see what was not there and they were great
44:25
teachers that was a great teaching experience for us and you know out of
44:30
nine murals if we've had one critic and it didn't change anything it was just
44:36
you know oh right and it was about inclusion you know it was about inclusion and I think we do the best we
44:43
can to be as completely inclusive of the populations that we're working in Selma
44:50
is 80 African-American and we really respect that we were right
44:56
well it's interesting yeah that you say that if you've read there's an incredible graphic novel series called
45:03
March um that talks about a lot about Selma and they run into some of the same kind
45:10
of roadblocks where you guys are running into that where it's like hey we're trying to be super inclusive and some
45:16
people don't want to be necessarily inclusive it's like well this person is the person that I'm I've been arguing
45:21
with for the last you know however many years but the project that you guys are
45:27
doing and and I really admire where it is can you tell me where where are some
45:32
of the the other murals that have gone up you know we've just moved to Selma in
45:38
December of 2020 and before that Trey had already started this project which
45:44
is called the revolution of Joy which the project design is 20 murals across
45:50
the black belt and the black belt is this region of the middle of Alabama is
45:55
where the cotton grew that's why it's called the black belt really because of the soil and it's a band you know
46:01
probably Delta soil I'm not sure and there's 11 counties in the black belt
46:09
and nine are considered the poorest in the nation okay so it's a very impoverished area so we
46:16
were already here doing that project and that's kind of the reason that we moved to Selma because we didn't want to be
46:21
outside coming in but versus part of the community right it's easier to be
46:27
inclusive if you know your neighbors yeah if you know who you're including yes yes so it just made sense for us at
46:34
the time of our lives and and for this project so we centered ourselves in
46:39
Community Arts by moving to Selma on purpose on purpose yeah so there's only we've
46:46
only done two revolutionary Joy murals in Selma another Community mural we did
46:51
with partnering with the city and the schools but there's other ones in Marion
46:56
Alabama uh Camden Alabama Utah Alabama Greensboro and Greenville wow
47:05
and then this this year we'll do one in Orville and one and hopefully Demopolis
47:11
wow and really I mean intentionally tracing these steps of like civil rights
47:16
and and the movement of civil rights or or no as this just happenstance because of the South and Alabama
47:23
oh yeah that just happens happy stance that particular mural that you talked about that was really you know right
47:30
when we were moving to Selma was intentionally to to discuss the race
47:35
issues and the unrest that was Nationwide right but of course Selma is the the center of a lot of that
47:43
um healing and you know a lot of the injustices but most of our murals are
47:50
not about are not socially minded like that they're much more about something Trey
47:57
writes a little legend that has to do with joy inspired by a unsung hero of
48:03
that area but we definitely want to bring economic development through the
48:09
Arts to this poor area of the South I think that's more of our Drive than the actual
48:16
civil rights Trail just to be inspired yeah you know the inspiration of
48:23
creativity really so yeah that's that's interesting just thinking about the the history of that area you can't help but
48:30
but land on places of historical significance even if you're not intending to going down to Mississippi
48:37
and being a walking cliche the 50 year old white man that loves the blues and
48:44
walking around and going to different areas I went down and saw and I've
48:49
mentioned this before but going down and seeing the different grave sites of Robert Johnson
48:56
and unintentionally finding myself on an Emmett Till Trail you know and I'm
49:02
looking up and I'm like oh it's like well maybe maybe Robert Johnson stopped here and got a Coke and you're like well
49:08
guess who else got a Coke here and you breathe placard and it's it does open
49:13
your eyes to this country in the history of of what's happened and what is happening here and I applaud you guys
49:20
for for stepping into that and and trying to create a community within uh
49:27
history and Community Within uh well it's the it's the revolution of
49:32
Joy so it's about the future it's about hope it's about Community now moving
49:39
forward right so you know you can't be here without honoring and respecting and learning of
49:47
the injustices right that continue absolutely and you know and I think one
49:52
of the first questions you ask is what can you do as artists and that can be extremely daunting and it's especially
49:58
daunting right now because we're recovering from this tornado and you know we're a poor community and we've
50:04
just been wiped out it's just amazing so what do you do well our
50:09
you know we had a little meeting of creative minds just just Saturday night it's like okay we're gonna make rebel
50:15
art let's do it you know people need healing right and we need to come
50:21
together and we need and no one died and that's what we need to celebrate and we need to celebrate loss I think that
50:28
Selma helped us align our purpose like
50:33
Travis all these conversations about looking for your purpose or looking for the truth and Selma is just an instant
50:41
opportunity for aligning your purpose with your job right exactly what's your
50:47
job yeah yeah if you're lucky you know then you get to do that and we if you're lucky yeah you guys do or you guys got
50:54
nailed by that tornado like what what was the path uh as far as Soma goes just
50:59
you know I know a lot of people know about it but just what was your experience and where did that land
51:05
well I'll let Trey talk a little bit more about the experience because I was actually out of town okay which was a
51:12
good thing I was just up in Birmingham which is just an hour and a half away so when it we hit got hit I could go get a
51:19
generator and flashlights and anything else I could think about think of
51:25
but um we are we were in the path our house was hit by a tornado we consider
51:30
ourselves the lucky ones we only lost chimneys and trees and a few windows
51:36
you know of course roof damage but the house next door lost its roof and the
51:41
house next door has it there's roof and then the next house doesn't have a roof so tornadoes are crazy they hop we've
51:49
learned a lot more about tornadoes than we've ever wanted to know but our town has a wide swath of the
52:00
root which is truly unbelievable and that's you can't you can stand in front
52:06
of it you can stand in front of the debris in the house or the there was with a house and you can't understand it
52:11
yeah it's super heartbreaking I'm sorry but you know the yeah but one
52:20
thing about tornadoes there's a path on the left side of the path on the right side of the path are still fine so you
52:27
can still go to a bank and you can still go to your grocery store and you can still get gas I mean I didn't know what
52:33
to expect because I was coming in so I was filling up gas tanks coming in town I was like am I going to be able to get
52:38
gas for a generator I don't know you know yeah so I I've learned a lot more about
52:44
natural disasters and things I've ever wanted to yeah our town is really going to suffer
52:50
I can't I just we're just at week three it's total chaos no I'm so super super
52:56
super sad yeah thank you what can uh anybody do to help is there anything
53:01
that that people can do to help us do you guys is this a Red Cross kind of situation or are we uh are there yeah we
53:08
have everybody we have of Red Cross and FEMA it got a lot of resources and I
53:14
think the people's immediate needs appear to me to be taken care of okay
53:19
trees are off of houses streets are cleared and power is restored but we lost a lot of housing yeah
53:27
so what's that going to look like I drove through one of the worst hit neighborhoods today to show a friend and
53:33
they're a neighborhood I hope that small houses are we built instead of you know
53:40
large low-income housing compounds you know I hope our neighborhoods return so
53:46
I think what we need is investment and if you have that capability there's a
53:52
lot of ways to invest with historic what's it called historic credits historic tax credits yeah so it's just
54:00
what we really really need is economic support in this in Selma it doesn't need
54:06
Selma is our nation's Town it holds a lot of history and
54:11
it needs to be supported by the nation and the way to support it is to you know
54:17
invest in absolutely yeah I mean I just I it breaks my heart because you think about all the the different black
54:23
communities that have been neglected whether it's it's um in Michigan or or Jackson Mississippi or
54:31
Tennessee and it's going to take a lot of work for sure I applaud you guys for doing what you can really I don't know
54:37
what else to say as far as that goes it's almost like you don't really have a choice though right well you that's
54:45
right we if we all do what we can though that's a lot I mean absolutely do what you can absolutely you know and also
54:51
there's an open invitation to any artist who wants to come and share their gifts with Selma we do have a really old big
54:59
house that was spared by the tornado and we would love people to come yeah stay
55:04
here and and share their gifts with Selma just children they they need dance
55:10
and drama and drawing and all of it all the Arts stories house your house that
55:18
they are in Bird land and it's a little bit a gallery and almost like a just a
55:24
joining space if you would the way I see you guys there on on Instagram or yeah
55:30
we would love for it to be you know Cooperative we have a garden and we can pick vegetables and cook our dinner and
55:37
you know I hope that other people will come and just see Selma come see it come see it share it share your gifts amazing
55:43
I appreciate that so much thank you um I might grab Trey on to close out a
55:49
couple of our other things we were talking about I wanted to to touch on this and and part of your your thread
55:56
too and the fact that you've been pretty open to experience
56:01
you experienced a heart attack not too long ago and in our community almost
56:06
lost you I wanted to talk to you a little bit about that and and how that makes you feel kind of on the other side
56:13
I know you've always LED your lived your life with with a lot of gratitude how
56:18
does that dictate your you going forward so it's an interest that's been an interesting experience that happened in
56:25
2020 two weeks before we moved out of the house yeah to Selma
56:31
and I remember I always tell people the house when we came down December 1st we
56:37
opened the doors and it's there's nothing of course inside the house and we're both standing
56:43
there with tears in our eyes she's got tears of joy I've got tears of fear like
56:50
what have we done so much work so yeah and and so
56:56
I I'm the kind of person who believes that the body can heal itself and you
57:04
know try to not use too much Madison Western medicine if you can I
57:10
mean I I I'm not opposed to it but now I'm given like eight pills you know in
57:17
the beginning it was very hard because I couldn't walk across the room without being tired so I had to kind of rehabilitate myself
57:24
and I I did I went through this cardio this cardiac rehab but I also did my own
57:30
rehab here so we have two sets of stairs and it was in the middle of winter and
57:35
so I didn't want to go walking outside so I would walk up the steps go down through the hall and down the steps I
57:41
would walk four miles from the house just to rehab you know and that really
57:47
helped that that I you know the first thing you experience is you can't
57:53
believe it's happening but then you realize you've just survived it and if
57:58
what I had was called the Widowmaker and I had what's called 99 occlusion so my
58:04
and we were out hiking oh my God we were hiking and uh the strangest part about
58:10
that story is I guess I had bronchitis and I was coughing
58:15
and Helene said do you want to turn around I said no no let's go on up to the top of this and get the view
58:22
and so I made it to the top and we were sitting there and it was so beautiful and peaceful and I had this just strange
58:30
thought that this is so peaceful so lovely so beautiful this wouldn't be a bad place to die oh my God I had that
58:38
thought yeah and I actually there was a fence around a fire tower this was a
58:44
place we used to come I used to come to when I was a kid we'd go camping I just wanted to go and revisit this thing I
58:50
hadn't seen it in probably 50 years and so there was this fire town I wanted to go climb it well you'd I would have
58:56
had to jump over the fence to get up you know to do it and I had considered and I
59:01
thought you know I'm not going to do it well five minutes later I'm walking down and having this terrible this like it
59:09
felt like it wasn't in the chest it was in the arms and uh it was as if like things
59:15
were running up and down my all inside my my veins or something I turned around and I'm Waking it Elaine oh no she
59:24
didn't understand she's waving at me and so she came down I I thought I'm going to lay down on the
59:31
ground just run my arms I still had no idea what was going on and as soon as I laid down I thought oh no now whatever
59:38
this is we need to get to the car and of course we've got a new car and then she had the phone we made it back then how
59:44
how far out were you we were 30 minutes from the ER it took 30 minutes but she
59:51
stopped She had the Foreside there was a gas station on the way she had the four side to stop and get some aspirin like
59:58
she's thinking just to face this is it and that bought me time
1:00:07
there's some there's some weird stories that come with this little incident we
1:00:12
sold our house to a a couple that came down from New
1:00:17
York and a year later a beautiful couple I mean
1:00:22
he and I were starting to know each other he was a drummer and she was a dancer nice he has a heart attack in my
1:00:30
old bedroom a year later and that threw me into depression did it really yeah I couldn't
1:00:38
understand that's where things began to come come up and I thought
1:00:43
okay this is just too weird why did I survive you know why did I had 30
1:00:49
minutes and I survived you know it was just that kind of like it was just that that really threw me over the edge and
1:00:57
all summer um listen 20 20 21
1:01:02
summer 2021 I just could not get out of this just
1:01:08
terrible thought of like you know you start to really understand your mortality I know that's what I've come
1:01:14
across with with friends who have had heart attacks too is that they're a lot more they have they have seen mortality
1:01:22
they have seen you know the end almost and yeah you know they are a lot more appreciative but also a lot more
1:01:28
emotional you know right have you experienced some of that too just being more yeah I remember in the beginning I
1:01:35
was so just just I just gratitude for like just for every minute that you're
1:01:40
alive you're thinking you know there's just so much to be thankful for and of course life gets back to
1:01:46
the way it is you know and this would be now two years since it
1:01:53
happened I was fearful then so you go into gratitude then you go into fearful
1:01:59
I had to wear What's called a life chest for a little while it shocks you it's oh
1:02:04
wow it's triggered based on you know your EKG or something well the damn thing would always go off
1:02:11
sometimes the warning would go off like I remember I was holding the cab and the
1:02:17
cat tried to jump out am I going to shifted and sit off of warning signal
1:02:22
and and I'm still here it comes and I couldn't remember how to turn the damn thing off and you're supposed to you
1:02:29
know hit the these two buttons at the same time and I'm I'm gonna have a heart attack I'm
1:02:34
trying to figure out how to turn this off ah here's another little strange
1:02:40
synchronicity that has to do with all of this and and that is um so I didn't do
1:02:46
chair I actually cancel all these shows uh in the summer of 2021
1:02:53
you know I started to get into this fear this idea of like God you know I've got
1:02:58
to be careful I'm going to have another heart attack and so I started I just fell into this place of fear
1:03:05
and I remember telling Helene she came this we were up at our little house up
1:03:10
in the mountains and I was up there trying to you know I was up there painting and so she came up and I said
1:03:16
I've decided I'm not going to do any festivals I'm I'm done with the festivals I just I've got to take care
1:03:23
of my health and God knows the festival yeah he's so so stressful yeah I got it right we know a
1:03:31
little bit about that you know a little bit about that yeah so um and she's of course
1:03:38
you know horrified like well how the hell are we going to support ourselves and I said I hadn't figured that out yet
1:03:43
but and so we have this River across the street and uh I said let's just take a
1:03:50
break and let's go for a swim and so I went into the bathroom
1:03:55
and I have this little little vial that I carry it's a nitroglycerin uh and most of the time I
1:04:04
remember to bring it with me yeah but in this particular case I saw it sitting up there and I'm putting on my basement oh
1:04:10
I better take this with me so I put it in my pocket and uh we go across the
1:04:16
street to the river and I jump in and I thought oh my God I forgot to take it out so I get out of the water and take
1:04:23
it out and I put it up on the bank Helene gets in the river and we're just sitting there floating around and all of
1:04:30
a sudden she goes what is this a glass file of nitroglycerin is
1:04:39
floating down the river with someone else's name on it up to her and I said
1:04:45
you see you've seen you got it seriously that is a sign yeah and she was just
1:04:52
freaked out you know I bet and so we went up and I was now feeling really
1:04:58
like okay I'm really getting off of this that's that's clearly a sign for both of us we need to get serious about this
1:05:04
well two weeks later the friend of mine comes up and uh he was living here in Selma at
1:05:12
the time and he was a wonderful woodworker but he's also a minister in
1:05:19
training or he he trained at a he trained in a theological in in seminary
1:05:25
yeah that was kind of his his path was looking to you know right and so we're
1:05:31
sitting there and I'm telling him the story and I said and I and just confirmed you know I need to get off of
1:05:37
this this thing and he starts chuckling and he goes that's not the way I said I
1:05:43
said how do you see it he says I see it as I got your back get back to living
1:05:49
and that was what I needed to get out of that fear base like oh my God I'm
1:05:54
looking through the glasses of fear yeah and so I went back to work and three
1:06:00
weeks later I think we were at La Quinta or something like that but pretty much
1:06:07
that whole thing with the heart attack is it is a roller coaster but I sure I I
1:06:14
feel like I've gone through the worst and I guess the best of it all if there
1:06:20
is yeah I mean it's interesting to me that that that you did get there because that's
1:06:25
not how I only know you a little bit and what that is is wide open you know that experience that that kind of open to
1:06:33
living and open to life and I remember we had dinner had plans to come up and
1:06:39
and meet and uh it was you and Helene and and Daryl and uh signing and [ __ ]
1:06:46
and I were going around the corner to to meet where you guys had said to go and
1:06:51
yeah we see you guys leaving you disappeared and kind of took off for about I don't know about an hour and it
1:06:58
was just a super casual dinner but we thought it was right around you know that time that we were supposed to meet
1:07:03
once you did join us you're like well it was really hot we had to go sit in the river and it was like it was such a
1:07:09
great thing I loved that and it really summed it up to me I was like well this is this is who this is you know this is
1:07:16
who this is what he's all about it's like well they they had to go sit in the river and it's like God damn and since
1:07:23
that point we we definitely have had moments where we've just gone and and sat in the river instead of being on
1:07:29
time right you know [ __ ] it who cares you're on time it's like well you you were a much better version of yourself
1:07:35
from having gone and sat in the river and then you would have been had you not been right I mean so it's like that's
1:07:41
that's the kind of living that I Aspire uh to be so you know it does kind of get
1:07:47
us into trouble and and uh and uh um yeah I remember we had a really good
1:07:52
time together that night with
1:08:02
but it's necessary and uh I I love your your voice and I love your stories I
1:08:08
love the fact that you're still with us by God thank you man thank you and living wide open still too trying trying
1:08:16
yeah yeah well come see us in Santa Fe I I said this to I don't know if you heard
1:08:21
me say this to to your better half there but um if you if there's a chance for a dinner in there with the with the very
1:08:28
famous tea bang uh if you can pull him away yeah
1:08:33
then from all the publicity that is yeah
1:08:38
love to have him on the show but I don't know if we can get him anymore he's he's too famous now he is
1:08:46
well I love you buddy I love you too brother and I I look forward to you know
1:08:51
seeing you um we'll we'll text you and let you know when we're coming through please do if
1:08:57
it works out we'd love to see you yeah you know I understand it's always a a time crunch but love to see you sounds
1:09:03
great all right brother thank you so much for sharing your experiences with all of us and and um
1:09:10
uh we've got all the pieces and parts and we'll see what Douglas comes up with bless his heart man he's got a job ahead
1:09:20
kill me all right brother talk to you soon thank you will bye now thank you take care
1:09:27
take care all right well I'm not gonna kill you that was a really good interview so uh
1:09:34
thanks for talking to Trey and and Helene it was a great talk we had a good time man um and to be honest you
1:09:41
probably still had to cut 30 45 minutes of of technical difficulties and this and that and I appreciate those guys
1:09:47
sticking with us and and giving us a really really good talk so I had a lot of fun talking with him and I can't wait
1:09:52
to to see both of them and give them a big hug on the road yeah I I love the part when she was talking about doing
1:09:59
the mural in Selma and how the sheriff stepped up and made the first stroke and
1:10:05
they partnered with the sheriff's department because this is the this is the thing that gets to me this is my
1:10:11
issue when some people have a hard time at looking at the past and just
1:10:17
acknowledging the pain we've talked a lot about empathy on this show and having empathy for somebody's experience
1:10:22
and their history is needed you know for that sheriff to say I didn't create the
1:10:28
problem years ago but ceremonially I can act as as a symbol to try and and
1:10:35
acknowledge what what was in the past you know so I thought that was really absolutely yeah it was very powerful a
1:10:42
great talk and great work that they're doing down there in Alabama so you know it's interesting we never really talk
1:10:47
about appropriation on this show and I don't know if it's a topic that we want to uh Broach but sometimes it's hard for
1:10:53
older white folks to have that empathy to not necessarily or to know where to
1:10:59
show it you know like I remember when the the statue of Robert E Lee
1:11:05
which that I grew up with I took my kids down to it and and people just decided
1:11:11
they'd had enough it started marking up the statues and they're like you know what it's time for these to go and I
1:11:17
took my kids down there and did a little tour and they thanked me for the lovely tour of the f word uh
1:11:23
[Laughter] it was uh it was a
1:11:28
it was there too by myself and see some of that and as a middle-aged uh post
1:11:33
middle-aged white guy to be standing out there and looking at it and seeing history take place in front of you and
1:11:40
this was more of a violent kind of this has to go we're gonna rip it down kind
1:11:45
of demonstration as opposed to the more of the the love and community that those guys were doing but I'm standing there
1:11:52
looking at it like just wow and you know some young dude just doing a slow circle around
1:12:00
this three-story statue of Robert E Lee he's looking up at it and I'm looking up
1:12:05
at it too and it's a it's a person of color who's driving the car he looks up the statue he's like you know gives the
1:12:12
middle finger up in the air and then he looks at me and sees me and gives me some of that too you know and he and I'm
1:12:18
like yeah that's fine man I kind of deserve it too you know history is what history is and I can take some of the
1:12:25
shrapnel sure so it's interesting to see this time and to live in any time but
1:12:32
and hats off to those guys for taking in a positive place and pass off to the people in Richmond for taking in the
1:12:38
place they did too it's just it's uh it's time to grow it's time to time to move on it is the other big thing I took
1:12:45
out of this talk was his advice or his experience of putting fear behind and
1:12:53
moving forward in life you know hopping on that Magic Carpet taking signs from
1:12:58
the universe and living this life of of taking risks and taking chances that
1:13:05
it's really an encouragement to get back to living and that's what I'm taking away from this talk I don't know if this
1:13:11
is a risk-taking business that we're all in you know I mean we can die in a car wreck we can jackknife it you mentioned
1:13:17
Martis early on our good friend Michelle Mardis had up had one of the more horrific traffic accidents
1:13:23
um it's been almost 10 years now or or more on her way somewhere around Atlanta
1:13:29
I remember hearing about this but she jackknifed her her truck and trailer you never know when it's going to end so
1:13:34
that's I think why we were all chomping at the bit during covet too it's already a matter of risk uh that we take every
1:13:41
day and it's just one more thing that we've got to throw into the thing it's like look my jewelry back can get stolen
1:13:46
I can get in a car wreck I can break my leg I can have a heart attack tornado can go down the street I mean the list
1:13:53
is endless right yeah you can zero you can spend all your money and then take a
1:13:58
zero on the chin so it it never knows we're all you used to gambling this is a it's a gambler's business my friend so
1:14:05
uh yeah all you gamblers out there on the road thanks for tuning in to the show week after week and we still are
1:14:12
enjoying doing it as long as you continue to enjoy listening to it and thanks again for all your support we
1:14:17
appreciate it have good shows everyone we'll see it on the road this podcast is brought to you by the
1:14:23
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