The Independent Artist Podcast

Hard Won Empathy/ Anthony Hansen

October 24, 2022 Douglas Sigwarth/ Will Armstrong/ Anthony Hansen Season 2 Episode 20
The Independent Artist Podcast
Hard Won Empathy/ Anthony Hansen
Show Notes Transcript

Working Artists! You are not alone!!  Anthony Hansen describes his journey through chronic pain and how empathy from others helped him navigate through the struggle.

Visual artists Douglas Sigwarth and Will Armstrong co-host and discuss topics affecting working artists. Each episode is a deep dive into a conversation with a guest artist who shares their unique experiences as a professional independent artist.  This week's preamble topics include artists as jurors, the rebirth of Art in the High Desert, and taking a pause in our art practice for health reasons.

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Music  "Walking" by Oliver Lear
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artist podcast sponsored by the National Association of Independent Artists also
sponsored by zapplication I'm will Armstrong and I'm a mixed media artist I'm Douglas sigworth class blower join
our conversations with professional working artists all right welcome back to the show
everyone we are battling some technical difficulties so we're in a very good mood right now look let's be honest
Douglas you're battling me who's battling technical difficulties and I take full responsibility for that that's
totally fine oh that's okay but anyway so how has your week been how's everything been going since I saw you
last lovely I actually had a little bit of a vacation we went up to Jackson Hole Saw some Fall Foliage stayed in an
incredible like old school Hotel saw some killer music oh yeah what'd you see
you know I mentioned this last week we actually are big Father John Misty fans and we saw him do a solo performance
just a little one on 250 kind of Courtyard performance him and a guitar
and his uh pianist accompanist you saw him again did you just see him in uh in
Minnesota yeah I mean you know it shows every two weeks I can see I can see my favorites every couple weeks all right
yes they're a groupie you know I wouldn't say I'm a groupie but we try try to see him anytime we get the chance
and this was kind of a celebration of our anniversary So Good Times quiet at times good times how
about yourself what's going on just getting everything off the list because next on my agenda is this surgery so
we've been talking about this for like a year it seems like yeah it's um it must
be sweeps week ladies and gentlemen we're getting ready to go under the knife here he's the independent artist I've just had this running list going of
stuff I need to get done I mean I've had the luxury not like you where you know you tore your Achilles it's like okay
the world stops and you have to go under the knife and you have to just deal with it right I'm trying to plan being off my
foot for three months all the work we want to have made for projects we're in the middle of household projects to be
honest I think I'd rather have it my way I think I'd rather have the rug jerked out from underneath me than to have to
try to plan every little thing it's like well can I reach the remote how many books am I going to read what do I have
downloaded do I have this what am I going to piss in I mean I thought that whole that thing too I almost wish I'm
like I keep finding more stuff that I'm like well then I have to have this done before I can't walk you know absolutely
yeah it's a nightmare to be honest I'm not sure how you're doing it but a lot of empathy for you and and that kind of
goes towards the topic of my conversation with Anthony this week and we'll get to that in a little bit but um
man we both have a lot of empathy for you as to a lot of our our listeners not all of them there's a couple jerks out
there hi there okay yeah just a couple I'm not naming names no I don't know that there are I just assume well I I
have not not blown glass for three months steady in 30 years I mean it's
it's such a bizarre feeling to think of everything that's gonna you know be involved in that sure Oh no you're
talking about three months of recovery is that uh zero to fully recovered are
we talking three months to the point where you can get out of a wheelchair or what what are you looking at that's
three months till I can start putting weight on my foot you are seated for three months you're in a bed yes and I
believe if I'm lucky maybe a couple weeks before that three months I can start in a walking boot then I'll be in
a walking boot for a while so yeah there's no glass blowing there's no art shows there's there's none of that while
I recover from this and while you're recovering and I'm sorry to be interviewing you on this topic but I
mean you can't put any weight for three months three months is is not when
you're going to be back you're gonna I mean this is what are we talking about six months to a year before you're doing shows again or what it's hard to say
because I technically need this done on both feet so I can't do both at the same time Renee is not strong enough to carry
me to the cans so um I'm gonna have to do one at a time and hopefully after the three months is
up and I can start walking in a boot I'm gonna see just how much work I can start
making then and frankly as any self-employed artist look at the bank
account and find out what I can actually do if I if it makes sense to keep you know go on to the next foot or if I need
to get back to work and make some money oh brutal well our empathy is completely out to you and
however you need a hand my friend we'll be there to help Renee or or whatever you need we'll we'll figure it out right
yeah I hope so I hope it well I will say this so one thing I've talked about on the show is one of the things we're
planning is when we shut down the studio we have to repair our furnace this this
glass blowing furnace is 17 years old so it's not insulating as well as it did
back in the beginning so the elements are on working way hotter they're circuit breakers trip from time to time
so I need to reconstruct the whole furnace and rebuild it
you're not going to be doing that who's doing that well I I put out on social media the the happy day when all my
furnace parts arrived all 2 200 pounds of them on a big semi truck and a lot of good friends in the area
said hey you need a hand I'll be there so I think I have a crew that's going to help us next week so I can get the
surgery taken care of and get the furnace torn apart and rebuilt before I go under the knife good Lord man
um well good luck this is we're not starting out particularly lightly but it's the matter at hand no right that's
what we're that's that's what we get to this is uh this is the reality of what
it's like working for ourselves and yeah working in a business that is a fine
craft business that's so physical I think I took that aspect of it for granted when you're 25 years old and you
start working in glass blowing it's just so freaking fun and cool and and heavy and I've always been somebody who like
to be active and and to do physical fitness and all that kind of stuff so it's a perfect thing for me and my my
life but when the body starts to break down a bit it's experience
yeah it is scary well whatever we can do to lend a hand and uh
I I now I'm now I'm figuring out why we why we interviewed so many uh good Wisconsin artists and uh midwesterners
let's rally the forces and get you taken care of right yeah but I gotta say this
talk that you had with Anthony today where he talks about the stuff he went through so much of his talk that you
guys had hit me in a very personal Place yeah I hear you it was uh there were
definitely some questions that I asked him kind of thinking about you and what you're going through as well and uh he's
such an honest and forthcoming guy and uh really I kind of felt like I needed
that talk to be honest with like getting my own kind of groove back in with a
podcast with a show and with interviewing and getting excited about the whole project really so it was good
for me to talk to him as well it's been uh this has been more of a kind of a
serious talk that you and I have had the kind of Preamble is is normally a little
more yucky it up a little bit and get our yuck yucks time but um yeah it's it's important to talk
about all of these different things I think about last week's talk with Lisa Christine and one of the things that she
said that really resonated was the thing she wants to do in her work is she wants
her work to take somebody out of their head and into their heart and I really
felt like this week's talk with Anthony it's all about heart it's just yeah it's
really cool nice but before we get into his talk I guess we got a few art show topics we could probably get yeah so one
thing that has a kind of resurfaced is that whole topic of having art show
artists on juries you know oh man we are going to go serious the whole way through right we are we are what do you
think about that some people are complaining they say it's it's nepotism no I I listen yeah people are not
complaining I said person or two are complaining they have a loud soapbox that they're standing on but the idea of
like this is what we do for a living right sure we do this thing and a couple
of people have broached topics should we have art show artists on because like you just said it's is it nepotism are
people scratching you know I scratch your back you scratch mine no uh I will
wholeheartedly stand up and say no you have to have people in our industry on
the juries because otherwise they don't know what they're looking at if you are
you know if you have an academic doesn't know what it's like being in the trenches and what we're making you know
or how we're doing right and they don't know you know Douglas the subject has
kind of come up but I feel like it's a couple of loud people there's a lot of sour grapes in this
business like any other business they think if they're not getting into shows it's this person's fault it's that
person's fault and really you just look at yourself at the end of the day the only common denominator and I've talked
about this a lot is you sure you know if I'm not getting into shows it's not because I'm an which I may be to
some people it's because my work maybe doesn't fit what their idea is for a certain show I mean you and I have both
both worked really hard to get to where we are where we can honestly expect to
put together a season you know you can you can Cobble together a season that is of quality shows and where you want to
be I feel lucky enough to be where I want to be a lot of the times but if I'm
not it's not because this juror doesn't like me or this isn't happening or it's
nepotism it's because I didn't fill their Vision you know I I feel like
art show artists are it's not nepotistic as much as it is a family where you all
kind of recognize the quality that's within right it's about the work and it's about who's yeah who's being chosen
as an artist juror it comes down to Integrity I believe the people who are
selecting these members to represent the jury they're putting thought into who
can be impartial who can make good decisions who can make because at the
end of the day when the show is juried and they get to say these are our 150 or
200 artists then you look at the jury and who selected them and there is a
part of pride of who you're selecting that you are truly picking the cream of the crop and and it's a competition
point I mean if I you and I have both juried shows and when I look at it at the end of the day it's like yeah maybe
they cut me off in traffic on the way into the show but their work is a plus plus it's like the Integrity has to be
there we've talked to a lot of different artists on the show whether it's uh
Cliff or David berstrom or uh Deb Adelson people that have been on juries before and and that you trust to be on
juries that their integrity like you just said that's that's the perfect Point their integrity is is as much on
the line as you know you don't want to put together a show that that looks like it's full of hacks okay
well well the next thing I wanted to say um to say about that is we've already
established on episodes past that there should just be a jeweler on every single jury because for one there's so many
Jewelers out there and right we need a jeweler who can say this work in the
components are imported and just put together this this work is original this
work is not you know what I mean you really need a jeweler yeah you're standing up on my soapbox the this is
this is our Our Gospel here is the way I've kind of learned through uh being married to a jeweler as well as being
around all this you know look at the percentage of Jewelry in your show if you have a jeweler on there you know
what a lot of times you can weed through some of the stuff and they can be like hey that's not that's digital that's
cleaned up uh their their welds are this type of weld this is hand fabricated versus casting all of that kind of thing
so none of us are experienced instant every medium we maybe can recognize
designs that are strong or not strong but the good thing about a varied jury is there's conversation you can say hey
what do you think about this hey can you I don't know much about how this is done can you tell me this or that and it's
it's a it's a good part of the process it's an important part of the process yeah I I truly think it is so here's a
question how do you feel about peer juries you know on site when you've got people in your medium who come by and
score you for getting reinvited back in again um it's a good question I know of a
couple of shows that do that I don't mind it a lot of times those folks will
get their feelings heard if I don't immediately give them all of their attention I've I've definitely been
talking to clients when the juror like I don't really care whether or not to get a prize a prize is nice but I don't care
but I really care whether I get into a show again well I'm talking about territories who are that's well that's
what I mean and it's like I like if somebody's coming around to to hand out Dole out prizes right and I'm sitting
there talking to a client that I know I'm getting ready to sell a five thousand dollar piece of artwork to I'm not going to put the Taps on my boots
and and start and do your show dance for them let me show you what this is let me tell
you what oh and I I'm not gonna do it but it it with the peer jury I feel like
a lot of times those guys get their their nose bent out of shape if you don't immediately do it and start doing
the little the little dance so I don't love it yeah I really don't love it yeah
I mean it's kind of the same idea behind having artists on the drawing into the
show I think it's a good idea but I don't necessarily love it it is that
kind of that you could jury me from your remote place where I don't have to to see your reaction but I don't
necessarily well yeah also it takes the artist if they're at the show I was talking to a good friend who it was
jurying Plaza and they were coming around and and and trying to do their best job at the same time they were
having to be at the show and jury the show as well you know what I mean like jury for prize money and it's like well
you're not actually you're not selling your work and I look at this thing very much as a business and how much I expect
to get paid per hour at an art show and they're not getting paid anything because volunteers aren't selling their
work as hard as they're trying they do a great job with a volunteer court but they're not doing any actual selling
they don't know how to sell your work and they shouldn't yeah yeah that's that's part of the deal with
being in person at a show like that and and being upfront and personal selling our work it you've got the we have this
equal split between the creative and the business and it's like we're all business right now this isn't about you
know making some juror feel good this is all about making the sales in the moment and we make those choices too you know
sometimes we are on um you know the people will come by and I'll be in the middle of a sale and somebody will come
by you get like the pre uh the pre-tickle where they're like the Jersey I just wanted to let you know straighten
everything don't give me jury foreplay I don't want to I don't want it you know I don't need foreplay with it just just
let's just get right to it let's get to get to it and I just you know come in here and if you wanna if the juror wants
to talk to me they're gonna talk to me and if they we were like uh it's a large scale illustration and I don't like it
I'm like great okay F off hit the road I don't need you I'm I'm selling right
right hey well new topic you brought up uh you mentioned David beerstrom being on uh jury I'm pretty excited about the
fact that we've got another art show artist taking his hand as as art show director I'm not excited as much as I am
relieved yeah uh there you go a great show and great hands so totally so David beerstrom is very close with the former
directors of Art in the high desert and Carla Fox is going to lead him uh and
help him however he can but he's he's doing it their new location lots of exciting things coming up and I really
feel like this is in good we were just talking last week about the amount of shows that are going away so a heartfelt
thank you for bringing one back so that's awesome hell yeah the bride's Like a Phoenix my friend um good luck to
you and and seriously your whole Community has your back on this one yes well we talked about that this is
Anthony Hanson week and it's also a take two on Anthony Hampton
yeah yeah it is this was almost a take two Preamble we are having technical difficulties but it was these guys
rallied and you gave it another go and it was an amazing heartfelt talk which I really love will it didn't feel like a
podcast to me it just felt like sitting down and and I tried to set up some of the things that he and I have talked
about in the past I've always admired the guy and I always felt a real Soul
kind of connection when when we talk if that's not too cheesy but I don't care if it is it's just how I feel when I'm
talking so he talks in this interview about how he doesn't do small talk he looks right in your eye and he says yeah
he says the thing so let's shut our mouths up and let's hear what he has to say shall we love it let's do it Anthony
Hansen on the independent artist podcast this episode of The Independent artist
podcast is brought to you by zap the digital application service where artists and art festivals connect I see
here there are some new features with the events list category through zap which will help us with looking up new
shows to fill a spot in our schedule you know I feel like I should have something to say but I wasn't really listening to
you because I'm looking at the events list right now and it's pretty cool okay so you dropped the menu down and there
at the bottom go scrolling all the way about third thing down in the smaller print just says events list that's right
all of the shows appear here regardless of their application deadline you can
use filtering and sorting to narrow down your search to find the right show that
fills your desired time frame or location I know a lot of people love that calendar I like seeing the list of
events I like scrolling through and doom scrolling late at night it's like online dating they don't let you swipe left or
right but you can figure out who you want to date coming up here I've got Anthony Hansen here on the
podcast and let's just jump right into this thing I I feel like we have a present moment uh guest here on the show
so let's just be in the present and and talk to our good friend Anthony Hansen metal artist coming all the way out of
California uh how are you today sir I'm good yeah thanks for inviting me yeah to
talk to you for sure thanks man absolutely and likewise and you have been on our radar as far as getting on
we actually tried to record earlier and had a couple of hiccups so I appreciate you being patient pick up is that what
you call that my wife calls it having a big tantrum I think it bothered you more than it
bothered me for sure yeah you know I tend to lead a life where I I kind of
drive 100 miles an hour right up to the finish line and get out and think I can just handle whatever and you know the
the technical difficulties were a little much to handle that week welcome to this world I feel like there's you know
whether you're working on your updating your website or trying to upload a something for Instagram or whatever you
just feel like oh my God this should not be that's hard right so it's this is not
what I do I don't want to around with this I want to just you know yeah be human and make a connection or make
art I don't want to have to like try to figure out what's wrong with my microphone or something right or your
brand new headphones I appreciate the purchase yeah for sure it's it's yeah I
had to drive to Los Angeles to get them but that's fine wow that's a that's a that's a drive so this better be worth
it is all like oh yeah I'm on my a game don't worry I gotcha sleep but uh have
you been getting on man you uh your show season is has kind of wound to a close how have you how you been yeah it was a
good show season you know with the pandemic like everybody you had kind of a forced opportunity to you know what
what are we gonna do different since we don't have the options especially two years ago yeah we we squeaked through
with some commission work and some custom work and then and then this year did a few shows and it's great realizing
that that Community is still out there and we all still get to see each other and stuff it was definitely good to renew some of those connections for sure
definitely you had kind kind of a I want to talk we'll get in the way back machine and kind of talk about some of
your history too but I think it's sometimes more interesting too to talk about some of the that we've all gone through and some of the the the the
hiccups that we've come you and I yours was a little bit different but um came out through the other side of covid and
reached the kind of the starting line shows we're starting back up and and you
and I both hit this weird thing where we had a health issue that kept us from getting back on the road it's like we
made it all the way through covet and then we got hit by the with a big surprise you feel like talking about that uh yeah I mean you mean about about my
back yeah yeah and now your hip yeah that was that was that was actually before covid I I did some shows but yeah
that was like 20 that was almost three and a half years ago now when that first started but yeah in the midst of it I
spent you know six months using a walker oh my God it was really I just you know chronic pain
I I had always felt like I wanted to be the guy who's like man Anthony no he's he's uh really dealing with some heavy
stuff but smile on his face and right that is that is easier said than done when you're in the midst of like how am
I gonna make it to the bathroom right now or how I'm Gonna Roll Over in bed you know it was really really
discouraging and kind of a mystery too at the time did you you didn't really know what it was yeah I didn't I didn't
know what what it was I you know I'm a cyclist I I probably have chronic work position for the last 15 years and I
fell playing basketball with my youngest son middle school basketball game anyways it just got to the point where I
couldn't even walk and it was you know it was months and and then years of of dealing with that pain and then slowly
slowly things kind of like relaxing and okay getting to the point where I could
get back to work or I could get back to a show and ask a neighbor for some help send me my booth or whatever but it's
way way way better now I'm swimming real regular now oh good good you were a
surfer before are you able to Surf again yeah you can still get in the water yeah so it's it's way better I I don't take
any anti-inflammatories I haven't for a couple months uh every once in a while I'll feel a tinge of something but I'm
real religious with with doing my exercises and then my my wife and I we swim we swim in the ocean most evenings
for like 20 minutes so that cold water and the movement is really good for me yeah I mentioned you're in California
and you had to go to LA to get your headphones but where tell the folks where you're located uh we're in the
Central Coast of California yeah right right in the middle between LA and San Francisco we're right in the middle
between Santa Barbara and Santa Cruz on on the coast nice so that's where you guys are swimming you've got a uh
incredible wife who I've met um that's a big big kind of part of you and I'm sure she helped you you get through that and
but to kind of circle back and talk a little bit more about that that injury like what I experienced um and you and I
touched on this when I saw you on the road a little bit but I mean it does something to not just your I mean it
kind of does something to your manhood too you you feel like you're this this kind of viral strong human that can get
out there and exercise and do big strong hard things and all of a sudden uh you you're sitting on the couch or
you're using a walker I mean my 83 82 year old father-in-law has has knee
problems and and will not use a walker you know it's like it's just you know
it's it's tough man it was yeah I mean I I is it extreme or is it not I I totally
thought about taking my own life in the in the midst of you know just being completely broken and just if this is
what the future is moving forward I is it in your is it worth it yeah I mean
it's like well we never go backpacking again will I never be able to get dressed standing up again intimacy with
your part you going to the bathroom everything was just you know so there was several times where I was at work
and I thought would you do something to end this and then I just thought you know what my my wife or my boys are
gonna come to the shop and find me I can do that yeah there's no way but I just
you know it's a I feel like it's a totally natural human thing to think I I don't
know if I want to do this anymore it was it was really it was really hard it was lots of Tears my wife was great she just
kept saying hey babe we had to look at it in chunks of like six months if I looked at it day to day I was never
making an improvement but I was like well if you look back six months maybe um maybe I'm a little bit better and
that's really what it's been it's it's I think this is coming up next march will be four years I think okay and it's just
been very very slow and doing my exercises and paying attention to my
posture and it just slowly slowly slowly has gotten better but it was yeah it was discouraging that's incredible man I'm
so glad you are uh managing that and that you're not managing it as as a as
an understanding that that's what you are going to live with forever but as something that you can kind of handle I
remember the new feeling for me was you know when I blew out my achilles and I'm I've got this cast on and I'm elevating
for all this time and what I found was a claustrophobia in my own body oh yeah
you know yeah you're trapped I was like I don't want to be in this body right now and the big thing you know you and I
are both lucky to have those kind of supportive Partners but the lucky thing that I found was that you know I had her
but she she was like okay you're gonna have your uh Physical Therapy but you're gonna have your mental therapy next time
something happens because we're in it for the long haul here and uh you were awful you know I was a I I just was a
couch sitting phone scrolling you know I just waited out the time because I knew
I could get through it that way but yeah deal with it a little bit differently yeah it's a it's it's as you know the
the physical toll really pushes on the mental part and it yeah if you're not careful it affects your relationships it
affects your outlook and that's not who you want to be I know and that's not how I want to be but man when you're in the
midst of it oh it is so so difficult yeah our good friend uh Douglas is
getting ready to go through that too and we're going to talk about that on kind of the Preamble and his surgery but he's
he's got his you know looking like a the light at the end of the tunnel is a
train here it comes he's got the surgery and and uh it's coming for him and he's
going to need some some support too but it just really makes you appreciate any
kind of support you've got and then it just gives you empathy for people who are facing that kind of thing with with
uh with you know a train oncoming train is is for sure the destination or or
there's no light at all I remember in the midst of it yeah you know people would say oh try this or do that or do
that and you just feel like you're walking around with a blindfold on I'm like trying to figure out
what's the right thing to do yeah nothing seems to work you know I I think
the best thing that I had from anybody was just empathy like man that's tough
you know sure having that as a parent with other parents whose kids have been
trying to figure stuff out or whatever it's just you know you don't want advice you just want somebody to say hey I know
that's so hard you know it's got to be so hard and that was often the best thing to hear yeah I yeah or I see you I
remember talking to a good buddy of mine who passed away he's an art show artist
that passed away from Lou Gehrig's Disease and I always made sure to be like it is good to see you as opposed to
like your typical hey how are you because it's like I'm terrible right now thank you for not saying how
are you yeah because you can see you know yeah in degrees but um yeah those
people that'll just hold space with you and which is uncomfortable right I care about you I know you Tori Achilles I
know you're frustrated is there some way that I can make a connection with you that I can hang in there knowing I can't
fix it knowing that I I love you and and and just hold that space with you in a
way that's human and and not be frustrated that I there's no there's nothing I can do I mean that's a really you know I think especially you know for
my wife Sandra and and Susan you know as partners that's a really tough place to be because they know it's going to be a
long time it's really difficult and there's very little you can do other than just empathizing absolutely and or
or get somebody to get some professional help I'm a proposal oh me too for sure
for sure for sure but you know you talk about the empathy and that's something that I wanted to bring up with you as far as uh like when I see you I feel
like there's all automatically it doesn't really matter the time but there's always I always feel like there's a connection and you're always
trying to get more of a you know I feel like you look a little bit deeper you know you're you're piercing a little bit
uh ours and it's a welcoming embracing piercing but it's also kind of a an
intensity but it's a I feel like there's a spirituality there whenever I get to see you what's your what's your
spirituality like as far as uh creation and and just your day-to-day oh that's
that's a deep question I mean I mean as far as like spirituality religion I was
raised super super conservative Seventh-day Adventist legalistic all the rules you know known for all this the
stuff you don't do yeah you know how do you hold any of that still or is it I don't I would say I'm I'm I I I mean I I
get it you know we have right we all have artist friends and stuff who are in the Mormon church or devout Catholic or
whatever um I don't have any problem holding space for those people I get it that's how I was raised but yeah I would say if
anything I'm agnostic you know I told my mom a couple months ago I'm all I'm all
for Mom they're being a heaven and God's gonna come again and whatever but I'm I'm not hanging my hat on that at all
you know yeah or like uh I look at all a lot of those stories where all of them really is just kind of Parables and how
it could be and they're all the same yeah I mean you know and Christianity is one of the youngest religions you know
so it's like I was raised though that the Bible is the truth and God's coming and you better not do anything on the
Sabbath so I had a lot of guilt and stuff to try to navigate after but yeah
I I I I feel like you know I feel like the biggest thing
we can do is and that I'm interested in doing is making connections and and loving each other you know I think if
you do that you're more Godly than a lot of people who claim to be gone yeah I mean that's there's your there's your
Jesus sure you know I mean not and I kind of was thinking spirituality more
as far as like uh how you see that non-religiously I don't know that I necessarily I definitely don't consider
myself a religious person you just you know you look at the teachings of of Christ and it's like how not to be an
is sure how you can how you can read that as a as a play-by-play but I'm thinking more like you know you're an
intense kind of guy but you're an easy going guy um yeah I feel like that's a
you know my wife has teased me hey babe just because he'll ask somebody about it doesn't mean everyone wants to talk
about it and I definitely have probably wandered into a few conversations that
are like oh I hope I didn't say too much but I I you know I want to know yeah and I want to be the friend that I want to
say how's your morning going and somebody says um it's really tough I would hope I'm I can be open enough to
have somebody say yeah I'm not having a good morning and that's one of the reasons I want to talk to you too like
it's um I remember even just set up because we we usually have a little pre thing where we're talking on the little
backstage before I hit the record button and it's like uh Susan and I were talking about this the other day where
you and I were in the the pre-show Preamble before the other recording that didn't work and you said well how's
Minnesota and I was like uh it's fine and you're like there's a little catch in your voice
you know and it's what I love about you is we don't end up talking about the
Niners yeah exactly or if you do you can talk about something a little deeper
within it I don't know it seems like there's there's always a question that you have that that takes the conversation a little deeper a little
more interesting so yeah I I'm interested I I want to know I feel like sometimes you know my wife and I have
talked about that I feel sensitive maybe ironically so to to asking things of
people that maybe is none of my business or whatever but I yeah I'm interested in
making a connection and like knowing the truth of where you're at and then and
then hopefully I can be somebody that's sharing that with feels safe and I don't
know my dad has always said that every every hard thing you go through in life connects you to another segment of the
population and I feel like those connections you know you're in a injuries mental health
kids loss you know those connections is what really makes life special you know
and usually those connections are hard one you know we've definitely lost
artists on the road we've you know losing Mark losing while bill you know
those kinds of things you see Jody you see those people around now it's like the connection that you have from going
through those things together is special and that's the only way we all make it you know I feel like we're
we're here to connect and to love each other did you get there on your own do you think or do you feel like this is uh
do you do you do a lot of reading as far as kind of getting yourself to that that point of because that that seems to be a
little bit of a Zen uh thing about you a little bit more um in the in the present
in the now a little Eckhart Tolle there or is it just you uh those are some lofty names but I yeah I I I don't know
I just feel like we've navigated some stuff as as parents my wife navigated
stuff early on in our relationship and I feel like if you want to just end up having somebody who will walk next to
you and say hey let's do this you really realize the value of leaning in being vulnerable and then hopefully being able
to be on the receiving end of when somebody needs that as well so I I feel like you and I were both in relationships
before I was married once before I mean all those connecting points and then you're with somebody like hey I'm in a
tough spot here's what I'm going through you go oh I've I've gone through that I've navigated stuff and I just feel
like there's such benefit to not glossing over that but going hey at
least being open to like tell me more if not sort of like investigating absolutely I mean the the gratitude that
you can kind of let yourself have you know arguments that you've gotten within with people in the past and the way I
argue with my my partner now the way I argue with her it's like sometimes I'll just stop and be like just have an
appreciation for it you're being a reasonable human being right now I can I
can take that and understand what you're saying and yeah yeah quit smiling during our argument you look like a lunatic
yeah I'd feel like it's just uh there's a there's a safety that comes from
that's another thing my dad has said that there's nothing more seductive than being understood oh man there's no way
to be understood other than to be vulnerable and being vulnerable is risky but man the times where you've had a
conversation or somebody shared something with you that's tough or whatever you really start really looking forward
to seeing that person again yeah crossing paths and it's it's different than like surface stuff and that's not
to put down or minimize anybody who's not as comfortable no way just getting
naked and if y'all like here I am here's everything that's going on with me I mean that everyone's got their level of
that but I I do think there is those connections that come from that willingness is it's like a drug you you
really want that and enjoy that when somebody will meet you there like oh I'll I'll say something vulnerable or
I'll apologize you know and you trust each other and that is amazing yeah totally totally you're you're I feel
like you're you're good at that that's something I appreciate about you yeah when you go with your life like me you
have to be good at apologizing for sure and that's that's me I can I can be uh
you know energy level for sure when I'm not at my best and I I have plenty of opportunities to apologize and my wife
will just say that's okay babe
yeah but you're always I don't know I feel like we're working you know we're always working on getting getting to be
a little bit better and sure trying to stay on that path but um yeah hey you're in California you talked about you're
pretty close to the coast you do a lot of swimming you do a lot of Surfing talking about reality that's got to
inhibit what we do for a living and how you get out there how do you how do you do that how do you mean yeah I know I
think that's uh I think that's a concept that a lot of people think must be how it is here I don't have any problem at
all spending seven days a week in the shop because that's how we live here you know the ocean is always at the End of
the Street my bike is in the garage you know there's always some nature to just
go and while away your time with but the only way we're able to stay here is is by me going to work my wife going to
work so I don't have a hard time and I like being in the studio my studio is in an old dairy barn from the night early
1900s it's on Old Ranch nice but yeah it's it's it's nice having that you know
on the way to work you're having a glance at the waves you're taking in the ocean you're smelling the freeze
whatever and you can still separate that okay as far as your uh how work and play
yeah I mean it's almost in a resort I think always being you know self-employed there's always that the
pull of do I have to go to work but probably more something that I feel like
I struggle with navigating is like I should be in the studio you know it's not is is taking time out of the studio
you know because you know it's kind of like being a teacher there's always a lesson plan you could be working on oh
yeah that was what I studied in college was was Elementary's I wanted to be in the elementary school teacher and so you
know really that's one of those professions like being self-employed artists that there's you would have been an amazing Elementary School yeah second
grade that was my when I did all my student teaching second grade was my was my favorite yeah you have an incredible
thing with kids I've seen you out on the road we have been fortunate enough to to be neighbors at the at the Des Moines
yes festival and one year you and I were side by side and the next year we were
across the street but the side by side that's the one that drove my wife crazy because she's she's a jeweler and in
that business you you can't walk away because somebody could walk by and scoop up your livelihood and put it in their
pocket where you and I sell large heavy things that nobody's walking away with we'll be back in an hour
yeah so you and I had a corner a double corner and we sat there and had like a four day conversation and then oh let me
go in there and sell uh four hours worth of work or something like that in 10 minutes and then go back to my
conversation but I was set across from you one year and and uh I couldn't move
it was so freaking oh my God my ear I don't think there's a year that I I think it'll be a long time until there's
that that year at Des Moines was I I I've yeah Beyond I mean people talk
about Ann Arbor I've never done Ann Arbor but that was just unbelievable what was that 115 with the heat index
and yeah we're going to the hospital the index was 115 and I just couldn't and I
just I'm at some point I'd be like well I feel like I'm dying now so I'm gonna go sit in the coffee shop for two hours
yeah and nobody can when have you ever done nobody came on Saturday it was like cooled down to 100 and Saturday night I
thought you know we were all thinking people were going to come back out it was just it was like people were all
during that heat of the day and we're having very limited and this I feel like defines you a little bit and I meant to
share this with you and again I haven't thought about it until except that time but it was so hot we just wanted we
couldn't even talk to each other at the end of the show we just left gross so uh but I took this this mom and this little
boy came by your booth and this little boy's talking to you and you just immediately in spite of the 115 you're
down on the ground talking to the boy and I actually took a couple of pictures of you because I thought it was so funny and so sweet and also there was an
element of like Jesus Christ how in the world are you able to engage on this level but you're down on the ground you
even did like a Superman on the ground with this little boy and you're like like it was amazing and also like I
can't how's he doing it I just can't even do it and I sent the picture to Susie and I'm like hey check this out like my neighbors lost his mind yeah
kids he has always been my favorite I was always the babysitter and I was was
I was like a psych social work major the first couple years of college I wanted to work with abused kids and then you
realized like just be a teacher you'll work with that same population just in a different setting right but yeah kids
kids always bring a smile to my face they'll ask you anything maybe that's yeah they're on my level right the last
inappropriate question you know they want to know they have that Curiosity so it's I feel like it's a kinship with the
little people they love you they hug you and kiss you on the mouth and want to ride around on your leg and I I feel
like that's pretty endearing it's honest yeah it's honest it's human right yeah they're not afraid to tell you the truth
you know or say they don't like like it or say they like it you know and I feel like that yeah it only especially hurts
when it comes from your own yeah that's when they really what do you mean all right how are your kids what are
your what are the ages you've got 24 and 18. yeah wow they still just kicking your ass well
it's not kicking my ass but it's they're definitely uh our therapist says to us well it sounds like your boys are making
their own choices you know uh which is which is great and it's uh
it's been a treat watching them navigate and it's it's we've been through some hard stuff
mental health stuff and and you realize what's what's most important is is not
always what college you're going to choose what's most important is is can you talk about your feelings can you
have successful relationship can you move towards being independent and there's you know fortunately there's
lots of ways to do that Lots yes I don't know about you but as you you know when you're when your kids are younger you
have ideas and then as you they get older and you see more and more of who they are and how they operate and and
you I feel like it's just staying connected and being with them on the journey whatever that looks like
sometimes that's really challenging is is really in the long run your only play
you know like yeah frustrating as that might be a time you know it's like hey
I'm your dad I love you you're a good person and we'll figure it out together
you know yeah or it's I don't know parenting is like a big old Jeff section sculpture you can let the ball roll and
then you can tap it here and there but it's going to go down its own yeah yeah you really your your influence your
sphere of influence gets smaller in in in a lot of ways but you do always have
control over that connection and that can be challenging as well if they're in a tough spot but yeah I mean that's
that's really you want to look back and say you're putting that connecting foot forward the most and that's I think
that's what will get you through it yeah yeah definitely and uh you are
dealing with constant change with those guys too as I am I've got 14 and they are too I mean they they are too the
world social media sex substance mental health school expectation body image I
mean man it is it is uh a lot to navigate we have two boys and a lot of
people say well fortunately you don't have girls you know I I don't know yes girls when it comes to pregnancy and and
having babies and stuff push come to shove they're the ones that bear the brunt of that physically but man raising
boys I I want my boys to be as engaged and responsible for those kind of decisions as anybody and so because of
that you know the risks and the pressures are are just as great I I feel like yeah I you know trying to raise men
that can talk about their feelings be respectful checking in apologizing I
mean it's it's it's it's it's it's tough it's tough growing up now I think it's it is the polls on them and the you know
toxic masculinity uh Trope then you can just let them you know go down that path if you wanted and or if you don't guide
them yeah uh all of those things and it's it is tough how do you how do your
kids uh do they guide your or impede any of that kind of creative process as far
as being a parent and trying to be present and also be an artist and I mean for sure I think when when they were
younger you know leaving for shows and stuff was always just so hard you know
I'd be coaching basketball or we'd be getting in the water after school and then I'd be trying to get stuff ready
and I'd be leaving for a week and I remember one time loading up the van and Hank was probably five or six and he's I
wish you didn't have to leave dad or whatever and I'm kind of like have big tears in my eyes hugging my wife goodbye
and and telling my kids goodbye and and she said babe it could be way worse and I said yeah you know how how could it be
worse she said if we couldn't wait for you to leave and I said yeah so she said
babe I've got it have a good show and we'll see when you get back we can't wait for you to be home and I said yeah
that would be way worse that would be way worse you know yeah so to be it's to
have that connection at home yeah that was that was I yeah I've I've told that
little interaction to so many people and it's it's true that would be way worse when's dad getting out of here you know
so the fact that he incredibly like to be together is is you kind of hang on to
that when when it's tough and you're you're in Chicago and you've been gone for 10 days and you're not gonna be home
for another six and it's raining and you know it's like well that's the thing too is it your your travel times are a lot a
lot different I I always said if I ever I lived in Richmond Virginia for a long time so I worked that 95 Corridor as far
as shows go and I'd dip all the way down to Miami you could get there and you know that would be a day and a half but
you could get to any show that almost any show you wanted to do in 12 to 14 hours you could do a whole schedule
whereas you've got you know you're not just going to Chicago it's it's Old Town plus a couple of days of travel each
Place 32 hours to Chicago it's 48 hours to Miami it's 40 hours to Philly yeah I
mean the closest shows that we do is La Quinta is six hours and then art in the
pearls 13 Park city is 13 but yeah to get out to the Midwest it's 20 plus you
know Denver's almost 20. so you're always trying to link a few together you always so you have to to put together
like I've said this before but it's like if I'm telling a new artist it's like okay take a 200 mile thread and drop
that on anywhere on the Mississippi River and that's where you should live as an art show you know but we didn't we didn't yeah
yeah I mean you know and we have artists we have artists and friends that live in
all those areas have community in all those areas and stuff nice I really enjoy living where we live lucky enough
to live by the ocean is just such a huge part of who I am there's just more
Logistics if you're gonna you know make a living doing art festivals in the midwest where we live and so I you know
you drive you fly you you just make it work and you're you just be good with your money when you make it that's when
you got to do that at any on any level as an artist but yeah it's it's we have
our families out here in great community and friends and stuff so it's it's worth
it but yeah it's not you know Robin Leslie living in Iowa it's like 10 hours from Dallas five hours from Chicago it's
like so Rob Matthews and Leslie geinen who you're talking about some some close friends of ours they ended up they were
Californians uh forever and then decided to move because of what uh talking about it just was yeah yeah you're always
linking several together which works you know there's always some schedule you
can piece together yeah it does but you do that that drive and park yeah yeah fly and throw your uh catalytic
converters yeah exactly just to the gods exactly I haven't had knock on wood I haven't I can't believe I'm saying this
out loud but I haven't I haven't had a massive breakdown I guess I did when I had to cancel Des Moines two years ago I
had a trans transmission issue but other than that I haven't had any really grave
mechanical issues or or had like you were really putting yourself out I know I know that's just we talk about that
here when you're getting ready to go surfing it's like you're never asking the person you're going sir have you ever seen a shark when you're putting on
your wetsuit you're like dude what are you doing right now what are you talking about like yeah that's you're tempting yeah it
feels like it feels like that way but it's amazing a community that we have though I had car charger one time and I
was on my way and it was just with my trailer I had you know I just got out there and I
think I texted one friend and then they were back and all of a sudden there were three people volunt oh I'm on I'm on
Route 10 uh coming through Louisiana because we were doing that Winter Park to uh Bayou City run and all of a sudden
I had like Chris Bruno and and Kemper and a couple other folks who were like we can throw your yeah man you know
how bad is it yeah this is a great Community it's a great a great family totally from the resources of advice on
shows materials or whatever it's uh if you want to lean in and and take advantage of that yeah I think most
people are you know because we've all been there we've all been stuck on the side of the road going I wish Chris
Chris Bruno was coming my direction right now you know whatever uh once
you've been there you know it's it's like a boating is the same way right you always stop to help somebody when you're
out on the ocean or out on the lake because invariably it'll be you and you want you want somebody stopping now
exactly yeah it's all part of the circle of karma Karma yeah kindness anything it's just a
we do help each other and we rely on each other quite a lot as far as you know when injuries happen and you know a
lot of us are getting older too you talk about that I've talked to some of the some artists who have you know they just
can't quite do it anymore and and I've gone back to help help some friends that have you know I haven't been able to
help because um they've already been on the road or something like that when you see them
struggling through but certain breakdowns have been just savagely brutal and I don't need to call any
shows out by name because they can't control the wind or the weather but man
um it's a it's a tough business a little empathy goes a long way yeah and if you can all your panels are still up and
somebody's struggling with the wind or with their you know I don't know I I always feel like I I can help somebody
out for 10 minutes or carry the last big load or something I I feel like what what that does just for we're all in
this together you know and yeah it's uh ironic it that doesn't seem like a very
much of a an American sentiment right now or nothing we really want to admit as a nation it seems like we we don't
want to all be in this together but we are so I I feel like uh man helping each
other out have a little empathy checking in I mean that's you get a lot of opportunity to do that doing the art
show circuit and that's that's my favorite I like that a lot yeah I was uh I got a phone call from a friend that
was you know 20 feet away and she's out on the street and has forgotten the Chuck in order to get the Shelf off of
the booth that she designed and was she was like we can you can you help me the 10 to starting to come down it's like
the main it was mainstream there's no reason to not give them a shout but uh Main Street Fort Worth and you know they
take that tent down that street you can't tell that we were there the next day yeah it's gone and that you you can
hear and it's like I've already you know I'm sitting there in my in my boxers
ready to turn the lamp off she's like can you help me you're like yeah let's go and I mean unfortunately
my version of helping was like look we we can't find the Chuck I don't have
that kind of Chuck the shelf's got to go yeah it's coming off the wall it was just like just I just hit man hands it
just it's here it comes and we can help fix it later but man it's the these
situations we all get into man it's it's uh it's a strange world out there so
yeah you can be lots of uh unknowns and unpredictable definitely more more
you're uh you mentioned Rob and Leslie some good art show Friends uh it's I've
reached out since he is close to you I I was like hey what do I what do I ask Anthony so this one's coming from uh
from Iowa he was like you gotta ask him about his and I've been kind of getting away from some of the the early stages I
was I thought it was like well I want to get down into the dirt and see you know get under the skin and see what what
makes people tick as far as like here's some stories too like I I I like talking to Ray Alfonso and getting into the
stories I'm like just shut up and listen to the story telling time but he did want me to ask you like your early work
like you had a completely different body of work as well like like what was what was that all about I didn't even know what was your early start early work I
feel like I mean before I was supporting myself as an artist I mean I I graduated
degree in education a degree in Fine Art I wasn't doing any I wasn't thinking about being an artist just every time I
could take an elective I took an art class and it ended up being I was I was fifth
year college student and I double majored you know when I graduated I was
doing a little of this doing a little of that I was I climbed as a for an
arborist I climbed and pruned trees with chainsaw and rope I Landscaping
business I did construction cleanup but along the way when I was doing that yeah
I did some uh like these smaller pieces wood nails wire so always 3D kind of
sculptural stuff yeah I did some lamps I I did nails and uh baling wire and
marble candle holders okay I did I was always yeah it was always a maker I was
always wanting to like make something I was always losing my Dad's socket sets I was always cutting myself with a
sheetrock knife I was always breaking the blades on the jigsaw I was I was always wanting to try to add a room onto
the tree house or you know we grew up on 11 acres and so I was always out like make something gluing something clamping
something so never real efficiently I I don't know that I've ever had a lot of expertise but I was up models I was
always interesting in in making something okay cool your father you mentioned a couple times he's he's
dropped some pearls on us uh through you here a couple of different times but uh
was he kind of out there helping you figure stuff out my dad my dad was a hospital administrator
um and my mom was an emergency room nurse my dad's he built some furniture for the house whatever he he was busy
Elementary School and High School traveling as as a hostile in administration but yeah there was always
tools in the garage stuff at your disposal yeah stuff I could lose and and he could be frustrated at like well you
know he'd always say well it didn't get up and just walk away so where is it I don't know Dad
then it's like rusted out behind the basketball hoop and the weeds you know oh yeah I guess I was using it out there
so yeah that's that's but yeah he was he was his dad was a contractor a builder
and then my mom we always had music tons and tons of Music in in our house so my mom's real creative in that way so they
were both real inspiring to me and supportive of any creative Endeavor whether it was music or putting
something together or saying um yeah growing up it was like taking an
instrument was like most families taking a sport it was like you're gonna take an instrument that wasn't really I don't
look back and feel like that was an option it was just a given so I took piano for like eight years and then I
played trombone in high school and then I took guitar lessons a little bit at some point I probably yeah we've
talked a lot about music as far as being out on the road and it's one of our bonding things yeah what do you what are you listening oh my gosh I just love
music I just I'm totally I I there's this great app NTS radio
yeah and it's DJs From Me Over The World playing all kinds of music every day in
the studio I and I pull up the app and see what's been uploaded from Manchester
or Zimbabwe or whatever and it's final it's just all kinds of collections of
music from I just I love it yes and uh yeah you and I have exchanged some like there's a guy in Bristol England or
something that that's all like old-timey folk and country music from the United States and he it's always all vinyl and
yeah I I love it incredible give me that name app again I was talking on top of you just so people can tune in oh yeah
NTS n is in Nancy NTS radio that app is just
and it's just an app and you can pull up stuff from radio shows from all over the world is that is that what gets you down the road I mean you're talking about all
these miles these 40-hour drive to to Philly yeah how do you do like when I'm
on the road I I mostly listen to cooking podcasts really
I love that's like cream in the kitchen that's probably my favorite place to be um I love sharing food and making food I
I'm usually kind of the the cook at home and and so yeah there's kcrw's good food
that's the Splendid Table the sporkful there's a bunch of of really great
podcasts that talk about restaurants talk about food talk about ingredients talk about process we love that whole
Chef's Table series on Netflix that's really interesting it's funny with the things that people listen to like the
way that the way that Susan and I get down the road is typically like lately we've been doing this thing it's like
okay we have an eight-hour drive today and you're like eight hours that's
nothing yeah exactly so it's like okay that's uh you can pick
three different things three podcasts or no you've got three I've got three and
then there's gonna be two hours of talking about all of that too so it's like all right well I'm gonna pick these
two albums in this one podcast and she's gonna pick you know these two part whatever and then it ends up being this
thing and it's like okay your turn yeah and then we end up talking about it and she'll she'll get a little bit headier
with with uh with some of the podcasts and then that leads to some really really interesting conversations the
brene Browns and and uh your uh Russell Brand has an interesting kind of heady
heady podcast as far as talk he talks to some big thinkers and he's kind of made a living on being kind of a jackass on
film but he's a really really Petty interesting uh guy yeah it's different it's definitely different you talking
about you and Susan it's definitely different when my wife and I go together which is only like twice a year because she works full time out of the home when
we go together where we're we'll pick a podcast like that like something like that and listen to it or I will have
listened to a podcast like oh babe I want you to I want you to hear this and then we and then we talk about it or
we'll pause it and talk about it we're always interested in relationship I mean that that's that series how I built this
yeah that's a great one you know I listen and I can listen to I can just listen to NPR programming all day I
think that's interesting too I'm kind of a right you know I like Morning Edition and all things considered and democracy
so you're um you work in I mean we've it's funny we've talked almost for an hour now but I haven't really talked
about the work that you're making right now but I did want to talk about like how you you obviously you're a metal
artist or a fabricator cold cold connection fabricator correct and then
uh you're you're doing a lot of recycled Metals yeah it's all all car bodies mostly yeah and getting all of that
color off the car bodies and and uh how do you how do you go about collecting collecting your work and I mean I'm
always I'm you know just in driving around I'll I'll stop and grab a an
orange Coleman cooler from the side of the road in one second just because I don't paint anything color wise so
anything I can find goes into the available stack of of color palette that
I'm working with but mostly mostly I go to the wrecking yard there's two huge wrecking yards Inland
from us here I go there and take my trailer and wander around you know it's
probably five ten acres of cars and find those old pea green Volvos or those you know
late 50s Ford or some beat up silver Toyota Tacoma or you know I'm really just
looking for color people say oh are you a car guy and you know I'd love to be a car guy but I'm
I'm not you're like Sarah Bean she's like she loves reading books uh but she
cuts them up yeah yeah and I feel like I'm I'm I'm always I'm a car guy the
most because that vehicle meant something to somebody all the camping trips the trips to the store the trips
to the school and everything so you think about the history of those when you when you're pulling apart yeah and
when you have a piece that's got 30 different vehicles in it and you can touch that 82 Toyota Corolla yeah right
there it's that's the paint that was washed and waxed by the owner I'm just that's my favorite I you know if you
were to paint over it or something to me I I would lose that I would lose that
story I would lose that I I would lose that sort of important piece to me yeah
do you ever feel any bad energy off of those Vehicles as well like I mean I remember like interesting question yeah
uh no I no I don't I mean and plenty of I mean plenty of cars I don't know if
you mean like Mortal Mortal bad energy plenty of those cars well no I mean yeah not necessarily like the death of
whatever but I'm almost thinking about I remember looking at Old homes sometimes and you're you're looking for a house to
buy and you walk into a space and it's like well it's a beautiful space but it's just I mean not to get all hippy-dippy on it but it it feels like
this this feels like bad went down here yeah no I don't I don't feel that as much yeah and and ironically there's
most cars in the wrecking yard are not there because of some high-speed head-on good there's most of them are abandoned
vehicles there's lots of cars that don't have any body damage at all old cars new cars so you know I I think mostly cars
end up there because of mechanical failures or issues or lack of Maintenance or whatever so yeah no I don't I don't feel much bad
mojo wandering around yeah um good that that seems like it could have could affected you have a you have
two what I consider kind of two different bodies of work almost where you have you know your your
representational or your shapes and your hearts and then you have some more abstract painting wise and the way that
the the the colors work within each other that almost seems like geometric abstract but uh do you do you ever feel
and I've asked this to other folks in a couple of different ways but do you ever feel like the Public's perception or
their expectation of your work affects your creativity at all uh what you think
that you have to show as far as uh I was wondering if you're gonna ask me this
and I mean I appreciate when other artists are real honest when they're having conversations with you so I'll
totally uh yeah I have a I have a huge uh at times or I can make a an argument
for a big insecurity with doing the hearts plenty of people come to the booth and
that's their favorite right and plenty of people come to the booth and go Hearts really yeah I believe in that
shape that's the way that's the person I want to well not just a business-wise I
believe in it from like a connection wise I I believe for me it's tough to see a heart and not think that it's
underneath it is something positive I mean that's why we're all connected it's human whatever but definitely there's a
portion of doing hearts for sure that's business we're not the position financially to just do exactly always
with every piece exactly what I want to do I mean I think if that was the case I would do those big grid pieces but
they'd all be like eight foot by eight foot yeah just big enormous I believe in the heart shape I I believe I'm I'm
using materials that are that are unique for executing it but I definitely there
definitely is awareness that that's part of us paying the bills is is is that work and so I you know but you're
creating it within the realm of what you you still want to do sure yeah and I feel like if you weren't you people can
can smell it on you I've done things that have sold really well uh compositions or stories that I've told
that I I finished telling the story and then all of a sudden I'm broke and I'll go back to that story and it's like
pulling teeth to get through it and and then I get it and all of a sudden instead of selling it at every show I I
have it for a while it's like they can smell the uh desperation off of it maybe or there's a weird kind of again I don't
know why we're getting so mojo-ish on this this particular talk but uh it's kind of it's like people can kind of
smell the desperation on it they're like yeah I think it's not interesting I think you can tell and nobody really
comes to mind with this but I think you can tell when somebody's just crying finding it out and I definitely like
you're saying for yourself for myself you know if there's ever a piece or a
time where you're just grinding it out I feel like the work reflects that you know it's hard to genuinely
talk to somebody about that type of work it's hard to I don't think you can fake it so I I Feel Like Making work that
resonates with you as an artist that you feel good about making I think that's probably the only option otherwise it's
just business and there's there's better businesses to run you know more financially successful businesses
there's more of a blueprint I always say if I was just doing it for the money you'd be doing something different so
exactly exactly and and that's the way I feel I feel like as soon as you have
as soon as you've lost energy then it doesn't feel real anymore and I feel like it still feels real you're trying
to say something you know that might be considered kind of a cliched shape with
a different way like you're saying with the objects with the you know it's like I get the there's an artist on the
circuit and I'm not going to name her by name but she calls you handsome heart she's like a handsome heart he's out
there that's uh yeah that's funny it is it's funny to hear other people's perceptions
yeah sure I mean and and I feel like that's why that those abstract grids
those steel quilt looking pieces that really that scratches a different itch
in terms of like use of color it's the same material you're there's a lot of things that the material use is I'm as
interested in the material in that abstract work but it's yeah you don't have that heart shape you're hanging your hat on you're you're doing it a
different way and it's a for me it's a different type of challenge of trying to make work that I'm aesthetically pleased
with when it's those squares and rectangles yeah I'm sure and you have to make those shapes do you make I mean you
put it together kind of I mean I'm not going to try to give away your secrets you kind of did you paint with it almost
like you're painting with those do you create the shapes first to kind of make a puzzle and let it speak on that grid
work yeah yeah I mean I I come up with a basic color palette and then you know I
lay out the Grid on the panel and then I lay in the pieces move them around take
pictures send pictures to my wife what do you see here I like how this looks so it's kind of a lot of blue on the right
hand side whatever that kind of thing sometimes and then once it's all kind of laid out ish then I start welding and
doing the things to to actually put the different elements together but I kind of like get a you know the hearts go
together just one piece at a time real organically the grid work is more I I
lay it out more I feel like the material is so rough that those great pieces is
it's kind of like a you're using the analog of the material and then I want it to be kind of like math to keep it
real contemporary right I want it to look real clean so I feel like there's a different attention to detail without
work yes I'm wanting it to to elevate the materials to the point where they're
they're abstracted from their place of origin most people have no idea that it's a car I'll even tell people it's
all made from car bodies and then they'll say well how do you get the color on there that's the buy-in when people go it's oh that's
actually the that's actually the car and they say yeah it's actually the car body that's the people who like the work
that's their that's their in they really like that aspect of it and that's that's my
end freezing that material as well yeah very cool and it's a you know there's got to be some kind of element of uh
using recycled product in order to to tell your your stories tell stories of
like kind of the Vintage versus the modern yeah it's a human I mean everyone's got a car everyone goes
places in the car I mean there's it's it's it's relatable in a way that you like it or not you know especially here
in the United States cars are a huge deal out of necessity and out of
enjoyment and Collections and stuff like that so using that material I I find
really interesting awesome thank you sir I really appreciate it you've been somebody I've wanted to both of us that
both Douglas and I have wanted to have on the show for a very long time so I appreciate you being patient with the
timing of it and uh the generosity you've had with all of your sharing all of your your valuable input so thank you
sir well thanks thanks for inviting me Will and I've always appreciated my connection with you I love you a lot I
respect you a lot I look forward to uh seeing you out on the road probably next next year unless you're going to be at
La Quinta I was on the on the fence there and I'm not so I'll miss you there but next time I can't wait till the next
time all right I owe you a beer or two okay well uh I'll I'll be giving you a squeeze all right brother okay love you
bye love you too that was a beautiful talk you had there with with Anthony Hansen will I appreciate you so much for
talking to him it's a no talk and to be honest I needed that one as much as I felt like it's good for the
audience I really was in a place where I needed a little pick-me-up I needed that
kind of honest connection kind of felt good that his camera wasn't working and that we just kind of got into it felt
like I called him up like yeah just having a personal chat yeah but it also we dug down into some things that I
really felt like talking to him about so I'm glad well several years back my dad
sat us all down I thought we were gonna have this very big talk and he says I just want you guys to know that I'm done
with small talk I'm no longer doing small talk I'm only doing large talk and
my son was a just a little kid at the time and he got really enthused by this this whole concept and he says grandpa I
want to have huge humongous talk this was huge among us talk
excellent that's really cool no more small talk it it felt good so and the
other thing I loved was his his talk about being a dad I mean we're dads and
I'm at that point that he was talking talking about you know about kids
choices and them becoming adults and moving into this next stage of life
and at some point I realized recently that for so much of our kids lives we
make choices for them so they have the best possible outcome you know and at some point when your kids get to
be adults you think I don't make those choices anymore you know we've taught them well we've handed
it over to them and now they make those choices for themselves they get to decide their outcomes and I just loved
that part of his talk about being a dad about you know kind of turning yourself over to the process and it was cool
right lots of lots of parallels with the art show world but sometimes it's just more important to be be the family guy
and he and I have that he's he's mentioned that thing to me too before where he's like well at least you know
we're all sad that you're leaving that's a big deal celebrating that really touched my heart because I spent a lot
of my years on the road waving goodbye to the family and feeling like sad yeah
and that was a really good moment when he said that I'm like that's true but they were all happy when I came home and
they were sad I was leaving so that that tells you you're doing something right I guess absolutely get there home safe
folks uh get out there on the road and sell your wares and get home to the folks that love you or take them with
you we got got to get going I gotta go pick up my kid from cross country Douglas has to go saw his own foot off
we're gonna see in a couple weeks all right guys we'll see you later thanks will for hammering this out we'll have a
good one man all right buddy this podcast is brought to you by the National Association of Independent
Artists the website is also sponsored by
zapplication that's and while you're at it check out Will's website at
1:16:41 and my website at be sure to subscribe
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