Cancer Connection/ Cat Tesla

Working Artists! You are not alone!! When Cat Tesla https://www.artbycat.com/,  heard her doctor say the words " you have cancer," her world was turned on its head. Cat describes her physical and emotional journey through a double mastectomy and how she handled stepping back from a thriving art career as an abstract painter only to come back with a renewed focus. Her revelation was that through public transparency of her diagnosis within her art business, she encountered a magnitude of empathy and meaningful experiences of connection. To inquire about Cat's painting workshops or her "Business of Art" seminars, go to https://www.artsmartworkshops.net/

Visual artists Douglas Sigwarth https://www.sigwarthglass.com/ and Will Armstrong http://www.willarmstrongart.com/, co-host and talk about topics affecting working artists. Each episode is a deep dive into a conversation with a guest who shares their unique experiences as professional independent artists.  This week's preamble topics include making work on a large scale, reactions from our last show, and a tribute to Vicki Munn.

PLEASE RATE US AND REVIEW US.......... and SUBSCRIBE to the pod on your favorite streaming app.

SUPPORT THE SHOW
VENMO/ username @independentartistpodcast or through PAYPAL.ME by clicking on this link https://paypal.me/independentartistpod?locale.x=en_US

Email us at independentartistpodcast@gmail.com with conversation topics, your feedback, or sponsorship inquiries.

Facebook https://www.facebook.com/independentartistpodcast
Instagram https://www.instagram.com/independentartistpodcast/
Website https://www.sigwarthglass.com/independentartistpodcast.html
YouTube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHxquKvRx9sI_DuXRLy-tyA
Mailing List  http://eepurl.com/hwQn7b

Sponsors
The National Association of Independent Artists (NAIA). http://www.naiaartists.org/membership-account/membership-levels/
ZAPPlication https://www.zapplication.org

Music  "Walking" by Oliver Lear
Business inquiries at theoliverlear@gmail.com
https://soundcloud.com/oliverlear
https://open.spotify.com/artist/5yAPYzkmK4ZmdbWFLUhRNo?si=i6Y8Uc36QZWIDKIQfT3XFg 

Transcript

0:02

foreign

0:11

welcome to the independent artist podcast sponsored by the National Association of Independent Artists also

0:18

sponsored by zapplication I'm will Armstrong and I'm a mixed media artist I'm Douglas sigworth glassblower join

0:25

our conversations with professional working artists

0:31

Douglas sigworth I'm back and ready for the podcast are you ready for more nauseating banter oh nauseating

0:38

nauseating banter Jesus turn the stomachs of all of our fellow artists

0:43

here on the podcast okay come on give a little background as to why you're saying that conversation is nauseating

0:49

while you're at it we've been doing this a while now wow and I feel pretty pretty

0:54

good about the fact that this is our first bad review yeah we got our first bad review and not even actually you

1:00

it's like a letter to the editor like I want to speak to your manager they got their full Karen on

1:06

um I I've been told that that is uh that I shouldn't talk about Karen's that's one way that the world silences the

1:13

voice of women so I've been listening to that and okay but um this woman was a total Karen well you were a little crude

1:19

I think I even called you out on that one I was nauseating nauseating shall we yes we have no plans to change my ways

1:26

my my Wicked Ways here's the thing this is a volunteer project that you and I are just like kind of having fun with

1:32

and if somebody isn't enjoying us I mean that you know I'm sorry right uh like

1:39

George Carlin said it's like the radio has two knobs and I can understand her being uncomfortable with something with

1:45

the knobs but uh let's move on shall we shall move on so

1:52

we are back from the last show it was good seeing you out there I really appreciate you coming down the hill and

1:58

seeing some of the new work that meant a lot I know it wasn't super easy on your your poor club feet you know coming to

2:04

see you was not the problem it was the going back up oh God you needed a lift I

2:09

swear they had a lift going the other direction I was like man if they only had that no but it was fun I really

2:16

enjoyed seeing that huge piece that you made last week it's awesome that is totally awesome you know I did not sell

2:23

it there talking about new work I did this one giant nine foot by six foot pain and I did not sell it at the last

2:28

show and it's it's too heavy to take it was kind of a gamble you know this whole

2:33

business as a gamble it is it didn't sell at that one I'm like I don't know like I had to take a trailer to in order

2:39

to move it and all the stuff so I'm not discouraged but I don't know if I'm taking it everywhere until I get a new

2:46

vehicle I so I totally hear you on that because we have a pretty huge and

2:51

involved glass sculpture piece that we do select which shows it's going to until you know kind of picking the

2:57

market for one but also picking the logistics is another part of it too and it'll make a big uh nice backdrop for my

3:04

huge wall in my studio down in Santa Fe so sure it was almost like Mike roushafenko piece because I had

3:11

um I had people stand in front of it all weekend and take pictures so that was really cool I got a lot of a lot of hits

3:17

on Instagram with that and a lot of people tagging me so that was fun and definitely some different kinds of

3:23

conversations different designers and things like that so it opens the door anytime you do something new it's fun to

3:30

it's fun to talk about it but I don't know if you're like me I don't quite I feel like I don't know how to talk

3:36

about certain things yet I don't have my Spiel yet yeah there is a little bit of finding your legs I mean definitely yeah

3:42

I don't know Douglas I feel like when you get new work sometimes you have the dialogue and you're really excited to to

3:49

talk about it but then you just start kind of tripping over your own words because you've never spoken about this

3:54

story or this influence or where this is coming from or going so it's it's it's a

4:00

different thing and it's good to keep us fresh well I know just walking down the hill it caught my attention from like I

4:06

don't know eight booths away because it is that big of a scale and you had the same conversation with Dolan and Ali

4:13

Marie several weeks back where you say that's like a branding it's like you know you know that was their work well I

4:19

felt that way with you yeah and I actually stopped looking at what was next to me because I was from like that

4:26

far away was like tunnel vision until I got closer to that piece so I mean that

4:32

piece really working on in that way I think is kind of a cool direction thank

4:38

you thank you I have some some more ideas uh in that same kind of series The the trick now is going to be how to do

4:44

it lighter later yeah because right now I'm like I'm at I'm beholden to whoever

4:50

my neighbor is and or if I've hired somebody to help me but it was yeah it's nine feet and 85 pounds there's no way

4:57

I'm my wingspan is even that yeah I didn't even think of that for sure yeah well I will admit that morning coming to

5:04

saying Hey to you and checking out your booth we're having a conversation and then all of a sudden everyone's gonna

5:10

appreciate this my face drops and I'm like oh he's shoving breakfast in

5:16

his mouth and I'm talking to him you ruined my breakfast how dare you talk to me while I eat I you know I mean

5:24

nobody's nobody's begrudging you that one it was flattering that you made your way down the hill but I did I did I did

5:30

hear her in my ear as I'm realizing I'm like don't talk to artists who are fill in their mouth with food I did text Ty

5:38

after that really you'll never guess who just came to talk to me while I was eating anyway okay well we both have big

5:44

weekends coming up here I wanna first of all send out a shout out it's probably it's already would have happened when

5:50

this airs but our good friend okay Clifton is tying it out this weekend tying a knot this weekend so huge

5:56

congratulations to the good friend of the show Clifton Henry he and his lovely fiance cat will be wed by the time this

6:04

airs it'll it'll have happened uh yesterday so they're getting married on a Sunday and so huge congratulations and

6:11

and thank you for the the contributions that he's given to the show yeah good friend and good episode he had last year

6:17

talking about his work and getting seen by Halle Berry and going viral and

6:24

Alicia finding your voice yeah finding your voice that's a big thing uh for him too so that's a good reason to dig back

6:31

into season one one of our first handful of episodes that we're both real proud

6:36

of definitely so that's a big thing going on this weekend and we've ourselves have kind of

6:41

a big trip planned Renee and I are heading off to New York not to do a show

6:47

but to drop off a piece and to scope out a project that were in negotiations with

6:52

with somebody so this is kind of a new thing to drive cross-country to work on

6:58

a project so it's kind of a fancy I feel a little excited about it heck yeah go

7:03

to Manhattan big lights big city that's great I know well we all wish you uh big luck on that trip I hope it is

7:09

successful I hope you can close a bigger deal out of it too yeah so that'll be a fun trip but it is different we we kind

7:16

of get our head around hopping in the van and stuffing it full of everything we've got in our studio to go set up a

7:22

show and to just like kind of get in the van and not have like you're you're cramped together you know filled to the

7:29

kills yeah I'm going away for the weekend and um we actually have a funeral to go to on Saturday

7:36

unfortunately but um we're hopping in a car a car what the hell is this car

7:41

we're gonna get in my wife's car for driving around town not for going anywhere far well yeah I mean she's a

7:48

jeweler she could go to a show in her car and run a tent and do all that stuff but we're gonna hop in her little Volvo

7:53

and man it's gonna be so nice to just sit there as a passenger and and not worry about setting up you know nobody's

8:00

gonna it's like going to an Archer like do you kind of like going to something that's not art show related I feel like

8:06

I'm gonna get there they're gonna ask me to bury the body I'm like okay get to work

8:12

let's see I'm going to funeral and you bring my shovel I need to bring my tarp so they're gonna mess up the grass

8:18

um anyway I'm not that makes it sound like I bury bodies for a living but maybe you do maybe you don't yeah watch

8:25

your p's and q's Douglas so hey so one of the conversations we

8:30

were having at the last show we were talking about sometimes we we find as artists that we're making work that

8:37

might seem kind of like super specific or or be like a niche for a certain type of person and it might not necessarily

8:44

appeal to both members of a partnership and how do you navigate your way through that

8:50

I mean this this may be a side note to that but I always feel like I I make something and I think it's going to

8:57

appeal to one person and it always appeals to somebody else okay so it's that's a that's a weird thing for me I

9:04

feel like I'm trying to to make it for uh maybe a certain group or or a certain

9:09

room of a house or home and and it kind of I don't know it always ends up kind

9:15

of going somewhere else how do you deal with that I I just remember when we were talking about it and I was like yeah I

9:21

told I totally get what you're saying and you looked at me and you said no you don't well

9:29

you know what it was uh what we were talking about is I was telling a very

9:34

specific story and in order to like like with those portrait pieces that I've

9:39

done not only do you have to like the portrait and like the work you have to like the person I painted and you have

9:45

to like the saying that I wrote underneath it so it's a very very specific market and I was feeling

9:51

jealous of you at the time and because you were like well that's like glass and I was like the it is like glass

9:58

here you just have shiny you just have to have like it's like this thing and it's not saying a story or anything

10:03

that's that's like s honed in and I just was feeling a little uh I guess uh I was

10:08

a bit sure because when I was big I guess it was a big shock uh okay so I

10:14

get that point I I get that and I I do feel like there's an aspect of our business of of any artist business Where

10:21

We Are we're kind of making something that we that we love that we have a deep

10:27

connection to somebody might see it and go well I would like it if it was a little different and then there's a part

10:33

of us that does that shift and say well I'm going to do what really excites me

10:39

but I it'll still fit within your range of the pie like you talk about what can

10:45

I still tolerate making that fits into my aesthetic and my and my thing even if it's let's say a different color you

10:51

know right I mean you're you're probably dealing with the fact that you've got like well if it was a little different blue than it could then it would match

10:57

the couch there is definitely an element of home interior kind of architectural kind of

11:04

stuff going on are you dropping your Spiel on me is that I hear you kicking into the Spiel The Shield I'm trying to

11:12

sell you right now well I've got some glass I want you to definitely I like those art words I mean the architectural

11:18

and yeah good good good yeah I am like what are we we're looking at like middle

11:23

August by the time this thing airs and I've noticed this impending feeling of

11:30

dread like for I don't know how long this thing lasts Doug but like that two-week like middle of the

11:37

cheeseburger sweet spot that we have as art show artists yeah for everything for

11:42

the year is set up and applications aren't open yet for the next year and

11:48

it's like well I've already gotten into everything that I'm going to get into there's no gnashing of the teeth there's

11:53

no worry there's no check your email every 15 minutes the dye has been cast it's like you just have to show up and

12:01

be a worker three shows left I'm just gonna go do them and instead I'm like ah man this is

12:08

so great and then all of a sudden this week I started getting the emails our application is open oh and it's like oh

12:15

I heard it I don't wanna like I get the dread of applying I'm like oh I gotta

12:20

get my new my new zaps and I gotta go go format my images I gotta go do this and I gotta like I gotta go look at my thing

12:27

again and and see exactly I gotta go start okay Armstrong stop now you're putting me into a huge panic attack for

12:33

crying out loud I I I literally last night thinking about finishing this year

12:39

and scheduling a surgery and then next you're thinking about what I'm gonna do next year and when I can get back on the

12:44

road is open what Florida is open I know that's what I thought

12:50

I can't even deal with it right now so okay I hope you get into Winter Park okay enough of that that can be tabled

12:57

for another time I have I I just have that inner dialogue all the time it's like did you apply to the Grove yet did

13:04

you apply to Winter Park are you going to do Florida yeah let's put this back on you are you doing

13:10

Florida you want to talk to Howard

13:15

okay yep that's amazing yeah yeah you know who is not panic inducing Douglas

13:20

who is that the lovely cat Tesla she's got her on the show she is so cool and level-headed

13:27

and I really appreciate her sharing with us this week the struggles that she went

13:33

through this year a very vulnerable way it's just an inspiring story it is an

13:39

inspiring story and the way she kind of handled it with Grace and she is such a

13:44

lovely human and it's really nice to see her and her husband back out there I think of her as kind of a Powerhouse in

13:51

in our industry and and I've always thought of her as this person of kind of like you know just like a strong

13:58

presence and and big strong paintings and well she's the whole package the whole package the business and I mean

14:04

they're big and they're strong but they're feminine but they're also she's got a voice you know and to kind

14:13

of bring that to the show and share her strength as well as her vulnerabilities is a pretty huge gift so thank you to

14:20

her yeah yep great talk and let's just roll right into it shall we uh this is cat Tesla from Northport Florida

14:29

this episode of The Independent artist podcast is brought to you by zap the digital application service where

14:35

artists and art festivals connect no Doug I was sitting down and talking with my wife yesterday she had just come in

14:41

from her studio and she was complaining one of the big shows they decided to do a do-it-yourself reinvent the wheel

14:47

application I hate that hate that so much seriously I mean it's like typically an application that would take

14:53

you two minutes on zap all of a sudden it's going to take you an hour and a half to reformat all of your images to

14:59

their specifications it just made me think about how easy applying with zap

15:04

is you just click a few buttons you've got your 1920s all formatted and you are

15:10

good to go exactly so I personally appreciate what zap is doing and thanks for not making us reinvent the wheel

15:15

every single week like we used to have to do cat Welcome to the independent artist podcast it's so great to see you

15:21

and I'm glad you could join us I'm thrilled to be here Douglas we met for the first time in Des Moines this year

15:28

but I knew of you from your online presence I mean you've got a huge online presence and I'm zooming by your booth

15:36

on my knee scooter and I'm like wait a minute that's cat Tesla I gotta make the introduction

15:42

well I think we've both had quite a year of health issues

15:47

and I do want to get into that but before we start delving into the most recent speed bumps we've been going

15:53

through I kind of want to lay the groundwork and get to know the broader story of you I kind of feel like when I

16:00

started looking at your social and looking at your bio and stuff online you are someone who has a very strong sense

16:07

of both sides of your brain it seems like you work very left and right side is that true uh yeah that's most

16:14

definitely true my short story is that when I grew up I didn't think I could be

16:19

an artist you know like any kid I loved painting and drawing I sewed I sculpted

16:25

and in high school when I was getting ready to graduate I was a super nerd I

16:30

also equally loved Math and Science oh okay so I was awarded a one-year

16:36

scholarship to the Kansas City Art Institute that I declined and I had academic scholarships

16:44

I know I know the audience probably just gasped you were you're like identified

16:49

for having excellence in your creative abilities and you're like that's not really what what we we don't go on to be

16:56

artists or what was that kind of the Practical thing well you know we didn't know anybody who was an artist and I

17:03

remember clearly my dad saying he got the first year covered good luck with that also the scholarship but it's like

17:11

after that you know what I mean you're on your own kind of thing yes yes so you know him saying that sent me down a

17:17

20-year career in science so I ended up getting a bachelor's

17:23

degree in biology and a master's degree in human genetics and I was on faculty at Emory University in Atlanta as a

17:30

genetic counselor genetic counselors see people through the lifespan I worked in high risk OB so I saw people who might

17:39

be doing IVF and having pre-implantation genetic diagnosis or somebody who was

17:45

having an amniocentesis or there was an abnormal ultrasound or whatever I would be the person that they would see and

17:51

then when the results were abnormal I was the person that called them to tell them so genetic counselors have you know

17:59

really kind of specialized training in both counseling and science so our job

18:04

is to translate complex information into layman's terms so psychology played a

18:10

big part of it too because you have to cushion the blow and transition people into like a game plan when they've been

18:17

maybe given information that's hard to process that's exactly right so yeah you

18:23

have to get them you know kind of back where they can hear you back from the

18:28

breakdown so I could hear you back from the brink but yeah I have to say I owe my art career to art festivals because

18:35

my friends and I were going to these art festivals oh that was like your weekend entertainment pretty much yeah yeah

18:44

and I couldn't believe what I was seeing because I was walking through like the

18:51

Piedmont Art Festival in Atlanta when it was going on and the Virginia Highlands Art Festival and the Dogwood Arts

18:57

Festival and I I was like oh my God they're doing it they're doing it

19:03

they're making their living as an artist and it was at that moment that I was

19:08

like I can do this you know we've had this story before from some other of our guests Clifton Andre talked about in his

19:15

photography and graphic design background when he'd go to art fairs he'd be like I could do what these

19:21

people are doing I mean did you feel like your work would fit right in or was it just that there was a model out there

19:29

a sales model for you that you could do that it was really the model which you

19:35

know it just it just hit me like a two by four it was like this is now a possibility because I had put it on the

19:41

Shelf you know so was it like the hobby yes you know what I mean that you could express yourself but it wasn't a

19:48

lifestyle it wasn't a way to make a living absolutely yeah so I entered the

19:55

Virginia Highlands Art Festival in Atlanta in 1997 and I got in the show I

20:00

won best in my category and I sold almost everything I brought only because I had no idea what I was doing with

20:07

regards to pricing so everything was very cheap well don't sell yourself for it there I mean I mean I understand that

20:14

but no matter what the price if there wasn't something that resonated with the audience they're not going to spend ten

20:20

dollars let alone you know thousand dollars or you know five hundred dollars whatever you you entered the market with

20:26

but I understand what you're saying yeah but that's such a a welcoming entry

20:32

that's the response was like off the charts accepting and you sell everything and all that good stuff no I I couldn't

20:39

believe it and then my um call me and invite me to presented by them so literally the next

20:47

week I went part-time in my genetics job wow that fast I mean that almost seems

20:53

like an overnight thing well I was so cute okay so how did that transition

20:59

from the professional Science World into the art world how did that work well

21:05

about four years later in 2001 things were going really well so I was planning

21:10

to quit at that time I was having some medical problems I had to have a

21:15

hysterectomy in December of 2001. so I was going to come back to work for a

21:20

couple weeks in end of January and then I was gonna you know give my resignation letter

21:25

sure so a month after my hysterectomy my husband was diagnosed with colon cancer

21:31

I was 38 he was 41 and it was like the

21:36

rug of Fate had yanked out from under us well and that's a time when a lot of us

21:43

worked in jobs for health care because Health Care was just an impossible thing

21:50

to count on as an independent oh and and that's the so what happened what happens I stayed at my job for five more years

21:57

because there was no Affordable Care Act so every insurance company said look

22:04

we're not going to touch you until your husband is five years cancer free and it was just

22:11

I it was one of the hardest times I got to tell you because you had the enthusiasm just to to move into that

22:17

next world yeah you were being held back yeah and and so

22:26

you remember in high school the groups like there were the jocks and the burnouts and the Nerds and the uh you

22:32

know whatever I was in the nerd group I think I was there too

22:38

it's okay so so I knew I had

22:43

that I had to wait because we got our medical insurance through my job oh yeah I started reading marketing books and

22:51

business books my husband and I took courses on body language so that we would understand better how to sell we

22:59

took courses on negotiation after that five years was up we were ready well you

23:06

are approaching the art World from a real business focus that's an intense

23:11

planning for this creative field I mean I feel like a lot of us artists jump

23:18

into the fun part of it the part where we can access our creativity and express our ideas and our feelings

23:25

and they don't teach in school or not many schools I I didn't have this experience in in my school where they

23:32

teach you to create a marketing or business plan or anything like that right so you were doing that on your own without anyone kind of guiding you

23:39

mm-hmm yeah because I I had to be successful I wanted to leave

23:45

my day job and not look back so you had a plan and and then you were able to

23:51

execute that plan when the time frame happened right so I left my genetics job it was in 2006 and my husband also he

24:00

was running a renovation company kind of Boutique Renovations for very wealthy

24:05

homeowners like you know creating a wine cellar or uh you know whatever they wanted a spa room or that kind of thing

24:12

yeah you know during that five years I was still doing my art just wasn't full

24:18

time and so things just started to really get busy and I needed his help so

24:24

first he started helping me in the studio with varnishing all the work photographing it wiring it then he

24:31

started helping me with the website then I couldn't keep up with QuickBooks so

24:36

you know I taught them how to do QuickBooks so you know so there were more holes in the dam that he was able

24:41

to fill right right and so you know we both decided that we'd rather work for

24:47

ourselves than somebody else so he folded his company and that was that was

24:53

kind of it and we forged ahead on the road of art festivals

24:58

we just talked to Dolan and Ali Marie guyman a couple episodes ago and they

25:04

have that kind of perfect partnership where they've got Dolan as the artist and Ali Marie's the business side and to

25:11

have that partnership it really kind of covers all your bases it's really cool

25:16

and you have that yeah thanks yeah we we definitely do and I have to say my

25:21

husband is very active in selling the work at the shows he's he's really good with people because he had to you know

25:29

in his previous job he was doing quotes and working with people with a lot of

25:35

disposable income so it was kind of good training for you know that dream art collector that

25:41

we all hope walks into our booth right right right it seems like all of those components of our past play such a

25:48

beautiful place in our present and in our future you know it's it fits in so nicely yeah I I think so but I think

25:55

that's true for every artist you know you're putting your whole life experience into your artwork whether

26:03

it's glass blowing or painting or photography I think I think the artist is their art

26:10

that's such a good point because one of the things that I struggle with and it

26:15

kind of brings me to the Crux of our conversation today is that where does that line I mean it's different for

26:22

everybody of course but we are artists who connect with what we make to sell it

26:30

so then how do we have a line of what's personal and what's public

26:35

I'm saying it seems like that line gets pretty blurry sometimes yeah that can be

26:41

a little tricky I would say it's hard for our kids I mean our kids grew up on the road with us at shows and

26:47

we treat a lot of our collectors like family you know they come in and we hug them and say how's the kids and how's

26:52

this and the kids then when we establish appropriate boundaries with I have a

27:00

story that I've told on the podcast about somebody who wanted my daughter to come walk with them to the car and we're

27:06

like uh no that's not gonna happen but a writer had no didn't know any difference like this is like Uncle so and soar and

27:13

blah blah blah we can trust them because whatever it's just a whole weird phenomenon out there oh yeah most

27:19

definitely yeah no we have collectors that we you know stay with at shows you

27:24

know we have so many collectors that we call friends and happily so yeah yeah so

27:30

you've been in this full-time artist mode done for 20 some years now right

27:37

where that that professional genetic Science World was is in the past right

27:43

and then your most recent kind of speed bump that comes along is this diagnosis

27:49

that you had right so in February I had an abnormal mammogram it was a routine

27:57

mammogram I'm doing all the Florida shows I don't

28:02

even remember what was in February it's it's that kind of experience and then right

28:07

um a few weeks after that I have a breast biopsy that is right before Vero

28:13

Beach okay then my last show is downtown Naples so we're waiting for the results

28:20

and my husband and I are debating do we even go to that show and we had to go

28:27

because we we weren't sleeping we couldn't really stand to just be in the

28:32

house the not knowing yeah the not knowing that's yeah it's all you're thinking about you know I think just

28:37

about every family out there when a woman has an abnormal mammogram every

28:44

step along the way there is that worry of what are they going to find is it

28:49

nothing or is it something and so you go on to the biopsy part I mean that's an even more invasive kind of like well

28:56

we've definitely have something that we need to probe and look into so I'm sure that that anxiety was quite High yeah it

29:04

was it was awful and not to get too gory on this on the air but oh get gory

29:10

people like gory a breast biopsy I think is probably like

29:16

having prostate biopsy so I had four abnormal areas in one breast and they

29:22

took 24 samples over four hours oh my gosh and I was icing my chest from every

29:32

moment after that procedure so we do the downtown Naples show I

29:39

don't even really remember it we drive back to Atlanta okay so it's about nine hours we take our luggage out of the van

29:46

and I get the call that no woman wants to get which is the radiologist calling

29:52

me to say you have breast cancer I mean

29:58

I'm sure there's so many emotions going on and so much but it's got to feel like

30:05

this weird kind of Full Circle moment like you are now the person getting the

30:11

news that you were having to talk through and give the news you know in your previous life all those years ago

30:18

so how did you manage that when the roles are reversed well worse at first it was it was a really a

30:25

hard day that particular Monday so I I just fell apart at first you know the

30:31

next day my husband and I talked and he's like well you know we've done this before and we got through it he got

30:38

through it you were there for him right you know so it's almost like

30:43

here we are yeah for yeah pretty much so yeah run and hide from it

30:49

like you can't just just pretend it's not happening so that's uh the reality

30:54

is just probably sinking in pretty deep what you're going to be dealing with right yeah I knew what all the

31:01

possibilities were but it just so happened that three days later we were closing on our home in Atlanta to move

31:08

to Florida okay oh so you already are planning a big life change

31:14

and now you've got this and you've got doctors so did you do your treatment in

31:20

Florida or did you stay put so what we did was I had to have you know a breast

31:25

MRI I had to see surgical oncologists nurse oncologists

31:31

um a plastic surgeon if I wanted reconstruction so we managed to get all those visits in

31:39

before we moved and we negotiated that we could stay in our house in Atlanta to the middle of April in order to get all

31:46

the appointments in and the young couple that bought our house she's pregnant and

31:53

she's due the first week of May so she's like I I feel for you but we've

31:59

got our own stuff going on here that's right so so we knew it was a big

32:07

ask because they were like uh we gotta get in here yes right right so we

32:14

managed to get those initial appointments done and then we had a surgery date in May so we moved to

32:20

Florida and we were just frantically unpacking and we weren't sleeping because it was all

32:28

about waiting for a double mastectomy so that is probably the longest month of your life I would assume

32:33

yes most definitely so then there was the question of

32:38

well how do I handle this um I have shows I have galleries that are talking to me

32:46

about commissions I have people from shows talking to me about commissions

32:52

I teach artists online workshops I coach some individual artists so then the

32:58

question was who do we tell the first shock is is really internal and it's

33:04

like how am I going to deal with what's happening to me physically the bubble starts going outward it's like this

33:10

affects how I make a living so I'm sure that as those ripples go outward how do

33:15

we manage this life we've crafted because as artists we have to hustle oh absolutely and so we panicked for a few

33:22

days and then in in our heads we weren't going to be able to keep straight who we

33:28

had told and who we didn't tell we it got down to that so I very nervously made a public

33:37

announcement on my Instagram and Facebook pages and right before I did that I emailed all my Galleries and art

33:44

consulting firms I work with and just said hey this is what's going on you know nothing until September pretty

33:51

much and you know blah blah blah and so right it's like I'm telling you first before

33:57

you kind of just read about it online right before the breaking news right

34:03

right of course and if you know we had already talked with all our family and friends and our friends rallied around

34:09

us in Atlanta they were they had been so upset we were moving because I had lived in Atlanta for 32 years okay and so

34:17

you're leaving your support system just when you kind of need it right yes such

34:22

weird timing yeah I mean it's never a good time yeah so I decided to make it public I had no no idea what the

34:31

response was going to be and I had just so much support on social media I

34:37

had women artists from just name a country they were writing to me saying

34:44

thank you for telling us your story because I'm dealing with some side

34:49

effects from my surgery nobody talks about this it affects half the population so this just isn't your

34:56

network of people you know this is now branched oh however they find you online

35:01

are connecting to your story right right and I had so many women also who

35:08

skipped their mammogram and the pandemic and that is why I could not get my

35:14

surgery very quickly it's because everybody's coming in with breast cancer

35:19

the day I had my surgery I was one of six that my surgeon set was doing one of

35:27

six six people having a double mastectomy on that day and you know they

35:33

they can't you know their people are just being diagnosed all the time you know so if you you know the the trick

35:40

with cancer the whole gig is you've gotta catch it as early as you can because then it's treatable

35:46

and and mine I just needed surgery because it was caught very early I'm super lucky

35:52

when people wait that's when you're gonna need you know chemo radiation you

35:59

know when you start ignoring your appointments or you skip you know so if you think if you skip your mammogram and

36:05

the pandemic then you have not had anybody check for two years that's more

36:11

than enough time for a tumor to grow for it to get to a stage where it's

36:16

beyond where you would anybody would want it to go right hmm wow so you put yourself out there

36:25

and you got love back you got overwhelming support from people you know people you don't know

36:31

and I mean there had to be this fear of

36:37

revealing the most vulnerable thing about yourself and what if there is no

36:42

reaction you know what I'm saying what if you don't get that love social media can be it is such a big

36:51

beast that scares people to death social media is a whole nother subject

36:58

but yeah that was the only place to put it you know like I couldn't add any more

37:03

artists to my coaching yeah so then everybody was like okay we're gonna reschedule everybody was so good about

37:08

it but there were just too many people to contact and I was in the middle of moving if somebody let's say on a social

37:16

media page writes how are you and something that's on something serious

37:22

it's like it can just it could be a lot of fires to put out I went through the same thing I'm I'm dealing with some

37:29

nothing like you nothing life-threatening but it is a bone deformity that I have to have surgery

37:36

with and so it's been a rough year because I'm just trying to get through

37:41

but I experienced that same feeling of like if I just tell a bubble all select

37:48

group and then they feel like well he didn't tell me what's going on with him and I forgot and there's somebody

37:53

important to me it it really messes with your head so I totally understand that dilemma you're talking about yeah yeah

38:00

no it's I think it's It's tricky because as artists we're an aging group those of

38:06

us who do art festivals so I don't know what the median age is I'm gonna guess

38:12

close to 50 or maybe mid 40s it's not just going to be me unfortunately no and

38:19

I mean the statistics for breast cancer among women is is growing isn't it I

38:24

mean how common is it it's one in eight is your lifetime risk but then it you know if you have a genetic

38:30

predisposition you know if you carry a mutation in one of the known breast cancer genes they're actually several

38:36

but the most well-known or the breast cancer one and two genes then your risk is like 85 percent it is something we

38:43

need to whatever Health stuff there's just a multitude of them were humans and

38:50

part of being alive on the planet is dealing with our health

38:55

so and choosing to put ourselves out there and being creative but then also

39:02

our work comes from us it's hard to maintain any sense of it's almost like we have to treat ourselves like

39:08

celebrities in a way which is kind of a sickening thought you know what I'm saying the ego and everything but we we

39:15

kind of have to I mean people fall in love with us they fall in love with our story they fall in love with our work

39:20

based on the experiences they have with us right yeah no I think that a lot of

39:26

the people that come to art festivals it's like the artists are Greek gods and goddesses you know they're yeah yeah

39:34

well how are you doing now how are you today I'm I'm pretty much back to normal I'm

39:41

going to physical therapy because one of the things that you learn is that when

39:47

they take out lymph nodes from underneath your arm it's a big cut right

39:52

and there are a ton of nerves under your arm and so you can have nerve

39:58

damage it can be temporary or permanent my doctor thinks mine is temporary but

40:05

it's in my painting arm which uh since my breast cancer was on the right side

40:11

and I'm right-handed so I have a great physical therapist down here in Florida who actually one of their Specialties as

40:18

women who have had double mastectomies and are having nerve pain so it's it's

40:24

phenomenal so I'm you know kind of learning a lot now about how to take

40:29

care of myself and recover fully but I'm I'm getting really close so thanks good that's really good news

40:36

okay so you put yourself out there online to let people know but then one thing I I see from your social media is

40:43

you allow the experience of cancer to also influence what you wanted to make

40:49

what you wanted to express not just like telling your story verbally but in your

40:55

work it kind of seems like it had an impact right so I did have you know that time

41:02

before my double mastectomy and you know we were unpacking things but I was also

41:08

painting because I was only sleeping like maybe four hours a night I just was reeling waiting for my surgery and still

41:17

getting used to the idea that oh my God I have breast cancer so I painted a lot and

41:25

one day I had a a pile of small canvases and I started writing like a drawing

41:32

medium Fu cancer on each one I started painting them and so I did an

41:38

Fu cancer series of small works and I sold them and I'm

41:45

still selling them but I raised three thousand dollars and donated it to breast cancer research

41:51

and then I had all these people contact me and say I want an Fu cancer painting

41:57

so I had to do more of them open it back up again it was great so I'm gonna

42:04

continue the series until the end of the year and I'm going to make another donation to breast cancer research

42:11

probably in November but it was a really great way for me to

42:17

kind of get my anxiety out by you know using painting as therapy and then uh selling

42:25

those paintings for breast cancer awareness and to raise money for research

42:31

so tell me more about that did you was the fu cancer written across the canvas

42:38

but then you painted an abstract on top of it um the words are underneath so I would I'd write a few cancer and then

42:45

I'd you know kind of erase it with a big brush stroke because I wanted it to feel

42:52

like I was you know mentally I was channeling that I was done with cancer and that I was

42:59

cancer free I was really just trying to think ahead and tell myself you know

43:05

there's going to be a day where i'm not going to feel like this I'm going to feel back to at least a new normal there

43:12

are some spiritual thinkers out there who believe that it isn't necessarily

43:17

fantasizing about it it is energetically creating it is that what you were kind

43:24

of doing too I mean were you mentally trying to heal before the doctors could

43:30

physically go in and take that cancer out of your body I don't think I was mentally trying to heal but I'm a big

43:38

believer in visualization so my husband and I plan out our year and

43:45

we put together something called a desire board and we do this every year

43:51

and I teach artists online to do this as well you know what do you desire maybe

43:57

you want a house in the mountains maybe you want your work in a museum maybe you want to laugh more maybe

44:04

you're too serious yeah we have our desire boards pinned on our wall where we can see them so I made a desire board

44:12

for my breast cancer you know what did I want to happen and I had a particular

44:18

surgeon that I wanted at Emory you know because I knew actually a lot of the oncologists because I helped start the

44:25

cancer genetics clinic so I got the surgeon I wanted okay probably just a

44:31

coincidence but it was on my desire board you know I wanted to heel in a particular number of months I

44:40

wanted to be able to go to Cherry Creek so I had you know a timeline in my mind

44:47

where I would be okay enough to do certain things and I had all of that written down these are super specific

44:54

it's not like a general thing it's like a specific show you want to be be at a

45:00

specific doctor and all that stuff so yeah absolutely so I think there is like you can you can search Dr Google and

45:08

find that there is a lot of science around manifestation there is like the science of manifestation is a thing yeah

45:16

I'm no expert on that but I think it's really good to focus on what you want and not spend

45:23

time on what you're worried about like the what if you know what if that

45:28

happens what if that happens well those are the things you don't want to happen well that's what I'm dealing with with

45:36

my situation because I'm waiting on a surgery uh to do some fusion of Bones

45:42

and will I after this surgery be able to walk like I'm used to I need to do that

45:48

because now with the year of struggling I chose to wait I'm kind of Lucky in the

45:56

sense that I got to plan how I do this recovery so I didn't have to stop my

46:01

entire world and put the income and and the shows on hold I could say I'm going

46:08

to do this on my timeline when I feel comfortable but it's been a challenge

46:13

it's been a physical challenge to to navigate but now I'm getting into that

46:19

kind of that dark thinking because I've been doing this for so long right of is

46:24

this my new normal what if it doesn't go the way I want it to I really appreciate that suggestion yeah so those are things

46:31

I would throw out the door and start writing down what you want to happen

46:37

and I would be as specific as you can and I know it sounds a little woo-woo

46:42

you know to talk about this stuff but I mean there is wool involved right

46:48

absolutely you know and and the thing is there are a lot of corporate people on

46:55

the planet who do this kind of thing there are a zillion books on it I have other things on my desire board for the

47:02

year like like I want to have hair like Cher okay so so

47:09

it's not gonna happen but you know like I grew up watching sunny and Cher and I

47:16

I always wanted to have her hair obviously I see it's not at all but I have but I mean you can kind of put

47:22

anything on there but I have to tell you Douglas that my husband and I have a number we put on

47:28

our desire board at the beginning of the year of what we want to achieve that year a number for like gross sales

47:35

income whatever is that what you're talking about manifesting your income okay yeah a number for gross sales and

47:41

we always exceed it we've done that too for years in fact if anyone walks into

47:47

my grinding room as I stare at it while I'm grinding these which I hate to do that's the least favorite part of of the

47:54

process for me is the cold working aspect of glass and I stare at that number and and then the new number goes

48:01

down below it and down below it and that's that's my non-intentional way of doing what you're talking about

48:08

well you're but that's the same that's exactly the same idea focusing on it

48:13

it's the same exact thing okay wow so something that I thought was interesting

48:20

when you got into the art business stepping out of your corporate sciency world there was a lot of planning in the

48:28

artwork kind of like how you planned that transition and you you know what I'm saying you you had a plan for

48:35

yourself and that's how you your work was and you've evolved to a place where

48:40

you start at a at a starting point and you allow the work now to evolve into something you hadn't anticipated when

48:47

you made that first stroke right yeah yeah started the first few years were

48:53

very mixed media with handmade paper and pieces of clay that I was making and

49:00

then I segued into painting Landscapes and seascapes

49:06

so now I'm just doing non-objective work and the way that I work is I view myself

49:15

as having a conversation with the canvas so you know one stroke is made then I'm

49:20

responding to that or maybe I've tinted the canvas a particular color and I'm responding to that so I'm not forcing an

49:28

outcome it's more exploratory it's more I don't know it's it's interesting it

49:34

you know I think painters are just artists in general we're creative problem solvers so you have a you have a

49:42

canvas in front of you or you have a hunk of glass or you have a hunk of clay

49:47

you need to do something with it you know so how are you going to solve the various problems along the way I can't

49:55

speak to Glass making but I'm sure you could tell us like well there's this one part where if you don't get that right

50:01

then the next thing doesn't flow and so it's it's very appropriate to how we

50:07

work we work in kind of loose abstracts in our glass with how we apply the color

50:12

and colors have different expansion rates so the form gets dictated as the

50:19

color is stretching in certain areas of the glass and then it's a reaction to

50:25

what the vessel is doing so it never gets out of our control it's not like

50:30

you know you'll have somebody walk in your booth who don't know the material and maybe as an abstract painter they'll

50:37

say this to you too it's like you just have no idea how it's going to turn out right as if we walk into the session

50:43

without a plan in mind or without a road map but what I'm describing is we have a

50:51

plan but then we have to react to what the materials are doing from our

50:56

experience of well if this is stretching here then we're gonna we're gonna do this over here to get a desired outcome

51:04

and it sounds like that's what you're experiencing with with reacting to the canvas and reacting to The Strokes that

51:10

you make absolutely yeah yours sounds a little bit more you know like you have

51:16

to have some knowledge of chemistry and how the glass is going to react it's a

51:21

little it's more physical yeah it's definitely more physical like a I always say it's like a soccer match

51:30

absolutely yeah but for you when you did the the fu cancer series oh I know you

51:36

had this vision of being cancer free but still was it delving in that unknown and

51:41

saying that you were bringing Beauty out of something that was underneath of it which was that sentiment of I'm really

51:48

angry with what I'm faced with the cool creation of that series was me

51:56

getting out anger and anxiety about the diagnosis but I I was very surprised

52:04

that I picked all bright colors they ended up being really pretty and

52:09

uplifting is what people told me and I don't know if that was the

52:15

subconscious thinking about you know I just want to be well right well

52:22

so I noticed when I go through your Instagram that we talked about that you're very open on

52:29

your social media but I notice you've really built a following and an audience

52:35

it's almost like a daily practice of putting out a post it's a very personal

52:42

post I mean they're not all about cancer but they're also about like there might be words involved about what you're

52:49

feeling that day or a revelation that you have and then it gives the work even

52:54

more meaning yeah I I said it interesting to talk about our work I

53:01

love to hear artists tell me about their work I want to know more because you're

53:07

really learning a little bit about them you're learning a little bit about technique you're learning about what

53:12

they're thinking when they create it I don't know if you want to get into the business of art but it's always good to

53:19

have an intention and a goal behind what you're doing on social media so I'm not

53:26

really posting just on a whim I have a little bit of a plan I'm I see you know

53:33

I'm nurturing my current collectors and artists who might want to take one of my

53:39

workshops or who need help with their art business okay and so I feel like if

53:45

I can be transparent that that's helpful in nurturing both of those audiences it's a genuine kind of authentic way of

53:54

communicating with people and also like you said nurturing that that business

54:01

model you'll get work from social media you might not sell

54:06

your work on social media people will start following you and it's because

54:12

they're interested in your story they're interested in you you know when an

54:17

artist sells their work The Collector is buying of course the art but they're

54:22

buying the artist well it's super hard to do that online on these channels you

54:29

know you put me face to face with somebody and we have a wonderful

54:34

connection but then to post it on a worldwide Network like that there is a

54:41

struggle with that but you do it so beautifully it feels effortless I know it's not because there is like you said

54:49

there is a methodology there's a plan there's a there's a strategy with how you do things thank you it's it's

54:56

something I'm passionate about I want to let people into my world art is about

55:02

connection right so where I have stood in front of a canvas for weeks or months

55:09

or however long it took me to finish it then the potential collector is going to

55:16

stand right where I was standing and they're going to be pacing back and forth looking at the details examining

55:24

the work making a decision and they're going to be feeling whatever I have put

55:29

there but they're going to be walking the same steps essentially as I did okay

55:35

so that is an extension of meeting them in the booth or seeing it at a gallery

55:40

right that this is their way to to touch into the creation and the Inception of

55:46

the birth of the piece right so just like if you have a person walk into your booth they're not going to look at the

55:52

glass from a distance they're going to get up close they're going to want to maybe touch it they're going to look at

55:58

it from different angles and it's going to kind of mirror how you created it

56:04

you of course were touching the glass and looking at it from different angles I find that art collectors and artists

56:13

actually have a very intimate connection when somebody buys your work that's

56:18

because they both like the work but there's something about you in the work that they're connecting to right this

56:25

mentoring and this teaching that you're currently doing is that something that you've been doing for a while or did

56:31

this come about with the pandemic it stemmed out of the pandemic in 2019 I

56:37

had taught workshops in Santa Fe with a friend of mine named Julie Schumer we

56:42

taught painting workshops and we had an idea for teaching both painting

56:49

workshops and The Business of art workshops in 2020

56:54

we had them actually scheduled and loaded with artists our bank account was

57:00

full and then we had to cancel all that and

57:06

refund everybody's money and we were really devastated like everybody was

57:12

when the coronavirus pandemic began so Julie called me up one day maybe a month

57:19

later and she said we're taking this operation online we formed a company

57:25

and we began filming so we each teach our own painting

57:32

workshops on our own we teach one together but we started teaching a course called

57:38

The Business of Art Online I see and can artists take your classes by going to

57:45

your website is that something that's available that way is that how they get in touch with you for that yeah so the

57:51

um the business course is actually on the website that Julie and I our business created it's called Art

57:59

smartworkshops.net gotcha okay and then what happened was the people who took

58:04

the business of art course wanted more help so we started a business of art

58:10

membership and you have access to a library of information we add new

58:16

content every Tuesday we have a a monthly business call on Zoom that we do

58:22

with any artist in the membership who wants to be at it and we help each other

58:27

troubleshoot issues that they're having in their art business cat you've got like the whole package I

58:34

don't I never feel like that I just feel like I'm trying like everybody else you

58:39

know you know one of the things that I have to say it's really wonderful to help other artists it's just so

58:45

gratifying I mean it's it's a kick just to help somebody else it's I don't know

58:51

it's it's hard to describe that feeling well that mentoring I mean that's really awesome I mean that is a a great way to

58:59

to put all of the things that you've learned and all of your skills into what

59:06

you know about this business and transfer that on to other people so other people have the access to what

59:13

you've learned I mean that's awesome that's really cool so in your teachings what are some of the the high points

59:19

that are most important to you or that you like to to talk to your students about well one thing is that the

59:27

business of our I think is a numbers game so to get to a particular amount of

59:33

money in a year you have to do a certain number of shows you have to sell a certain number of

59:39

works of art and there's a principle called the Pareto Principle which is the 80 20 rule

59:46

and in a nutshell the 80 20 rule states that 80 percent of your consequences

59:53

come from 20 of your causes so for example 80 percent of your art sales

1:00:00

come from 20 of your customers and that's a really important thing to

1:00:05

understand because people are always trying to get new collectors but the success rate of

1:00:12

selling to a collector you already have is 60 to 70 percent that's been

1:00:18

documented in a gajillion business studies this takes me back to the conversation that I had last year with

1:00:26

Eric Lee who has a very specific style he does back painted glass I know Eric

1:00:33

yeah so he started with wall pieces but then he started evolving his style his

1:00:39

look into functional pieces like furniture and he was saying that those collectors would acquire multiple pieces

1:00:47

because they liked him and his aesthetic and his look and so if he just stayed

1:00:53

with wall art he was gonna max out his his customers is that kind of what you're talking about yeah most

1:00:59

definitely I mean you have to evolve so that you continue to have new offerings

1:01:05

for your audience but to try to sell to a new customer your success rate is

1:01:11

maybe five to twenty percent it's harder but you've already got past collectors

1:01:16

of your work if you nurture that audience and by nurture I mean send them

1:01:21

some e-blasts talk about your work they want to know they want to know about you

1:01:28

I've had people opening my e-blasts for over 20 years

1:01:33

and they'll email me and say I love getting these and it's because an

1:01:40

artist's life is interesting right it's like what we said before like when you go to an art festival the audience

1:01:46

thinks that we're like Greek goddesses and Greek gods right it's uncomfortable for us to have that ego but that is

1:01:54

maybe what the collectors expect from us or want from us right so it's it's going

1:02:00

to be way easier to sell a second time or a third time or a tenth time to

1:02:07

somebody who's already qualified they've already bought from you you already know

1:02:12

they like your stuff so I find that a lot of artists don't

1:02:18

collect emails email marketing I think is one of the if not the most important

1:02:23

part of your business is collecting emails and you know because like my social media accounts yeah I have a lot

1:02:30

of followers and this and that but I don't own that Facebook or meta owns that right and

1:02:36

they drop in the audience drops in and finds you and then all you can control

1:02:42

is what you put out you can't control what actually shows up in their feed they control that right the emails we

1:02:49

can control what they see right and I can have those in a spreadsheet on my computer so I've got them it's not like

1:02:55

another company has them and is holding them hostage interesting cool are there

1:03:02

any other techniques or things you that are important to you when you for your teaching I know the word sales or

1:03:08

selling is super taboo to most people they cringe you know but selling is

1:03:16

educating that's all it is so if you can educate somebody about

1:03:22

what you do you're selling so think about it this way you go to buy a car

1:03:29

at a car dealership what does the sales person tell you they tell you about the car you know they

1:03:36

tell you they tell you about the radio knobs or whatever right the tires and

1:03:41

the is it fabric is it leather but I understand that discomfort because we

1:03:47

have to tell them what we were feeling and what we were thinking when we made this piece and it's more comfortable for

1:03:52

us just just to say here's the painting look at it what do you get from it but I

1:03:58

know that's harder to sell it if you don't talk about what's going on and other than their themes or whatever yeah

1:04:04

I I think that everybody wants to know your story your story

1:04:10

sells your work they're looking at you and your art and they kind of want to know how did this all happen how are you

1:04:17

here how did how did this work evolve and so if you're just able to talk about

1:04:23

your work and educate your audience that's it that's what selling is are there any points during the year where

1:04:31

cancer actually served as a distraction to selling the work I don't really bring

1:04:37

it up unless somebody else brings it up so I had a really nice pass collector came to Des

1:04:44

Moines and she brought me this diamond it's a pin that you like wear on your lapel

1:04:51

it's a heart with the breast cancer pink ribbon through it yeah and she just came

1:04:58

to give it to me and she said somebody gave this to me when I had breast cancer

1:05:04

and so I want you to wear it and I want you to keep it and then there'll come a

1:05:10

time where you're going to be able to give that to somebody else and so you know it was

1:05:15

just this incredible gift from her and it really is like a really nice piece of

1:05:21

jewelry okay right it was a piece of jewelry actual piece of jewelry what would you say looking back over

1:05:28

this year this this speed bump of cancer what do you think you've kind of learned

1:05:34

through that experience so many things so I would say one thing

1:05:40

is that most all people are really really nice even when you think they're

1:05:46

not yeah I heard from people that I was

1:05:52

not expecting to hear from people really care and they're very very kind and

1:05:58

generous so I think the generosity of people just blew me away I've really learned a lot

1:06:05

from the talks from brene Brown where she talks about connection and how we

1:06:11

form connections with people and I have learned in the past few years that where

1:06:16

we have true connection is being able to safely share vulnerabilities and have

1:06:22

somebody meet you on that level and share their vulnerabilities with you as

1:06:28

well and there it's a safe place of growth and so that's such a sweet and powerful

1:06:35

thing for you to be at your your low I mean that's that's like the bottom to have your mortality be on the table and

1:06:43

to have people come to you and support that and honor it yeah it was really

1:06:48

just mind-blowing and I think that's really the biggest lesson that at the end of the day most people are really

1:06:55

good you know the other thing was I I just can't even tell you how many emails I

1:07:01

got from collectors so the other thing that happened was everybody shared their story so I know all the people on the

1:07:08

planet now who have had cancer because they all tell you

1:07:15

well there's definitely an element of woundology where where we Bond over our

1:07:21

shared wounds right right right right but but I think also is that I guess the

1:07:29

thing that I've learned is when something bad happens you can always find just a kernel that

1:07:38

carries you through what kept you going was it the reaction from people around

1:07:43

you that kept you getting up and staying positive or is that just your nature what what kept you going

1:07:51

um probably a little bit of both I'm definitely a glass half full kind of person sure but this kind of thing

1:07:59

brings you to your knees so I would really say it was other people supporting me I was getting cards and

1:08:06

letters I I had calls from show directors I have cards from show directors one show director sent me

1:08:12

flowers I mean just stuff that oh my gosh you would never expect and I didn't even know they knew you know so I didn't

1:08:19

even know who saw my posts on social media where it came from how the

1:08:25

knowledge came to them right and so I think that the rallying of the art community

1:08:34

really kept me going and so many women were like look this is what happened to me and I'm still here okay and so that

1:08:41

kept you from getting too dark that's right knowing that there's a positive that they had a positive outcome there's

1:08:48

no reason I can't have that same positive outcome absolutely absolutely yeah

1:08:53

you know I think that's what happens you get to a particular point in your life like I I never dreamed I would get breast cancer but I never dreamed I'd be

1:09:00

talking about it ever you know like that you know and and like when you first get cancer and they tell you you

1:09:08

can't even say it like I was trembling you know talking to my mom to tell her and she was you know freaking out she

1:09:15

had to get off the phone because she was losing it you know she's 87 she hasn't had any health problems in her life

1:09:22

she's gonna live forever but she was just devastated that her daughter you

1:09:28

know had this and it's the fear that it's the thing people don't want to talk about it's the it's the worst case

1:09:34

scenario it's like oh my God now it's it like my sister-in-law was diagnosed a

1:09:40

couple of years ago and leading up to that my mother-in-law would tell anyone who

1:09:47

would listen we don't get cancer in our family and it's almost like really

1:09:53

well now you know it's almost like don't tempt fate because right right then it

1:10:00

touches your family and and it's the thing that my wife and my sister-in-law were like you know this is something we

1:10:07

think is not going to happen and it's not anybody's fault right right right I've also found with what I'm dealing

1:10:15

with my wife and I have we have an amazing partnership and I know you and your husband have an amazing partnership

1:10:22

too and it's in these moments where we really have to lean on our spouse and it's not easy for me because I'm a real

1:10:29

like I'm like a take charge I get a lot of my self-worth from my ability to be

1:10:35

doing things I mean doing things like I actually physically accomplishing stuff and that

1:10:42

kind of really messes with your head when you have to adjust what you're capable of doing oh yeah yeah for sure

1:10:48

I'm I'm kind of like the ever ready bunny I I go you know I'm a hard worker

1:10:54

I like work I know another nerdy thing about me but um I like running a business so

1:11:03

it was really hard to be in pain curled up in a ball for weeks on end my husband

1:11:09

of course was a rock he was fantastic and like I said you know we knew what

1:11:16

the experience was going to be like a little bit because of his cancer but um I can tell you it's really really

1:11:23

different when it's you right I'm sure that when you were his

1:11:29

support in those moments it's like we will bend over backwards for somebody

1:11:34

else but it is hard to be the one to say okay

1:11:40

for my case will you bend down and take off my shoes and ankle braces it's just

1:11:45

like I feel I feel awful like who would want to do that but that's the blessing

1:11:51

in that relationship and that partnership that person truly has your back and so I hope you could take that

1:11:59

strength and that support and not feel bad about it you know to allow yourself

1:12:06

to be taken care of I didn't really have a choice you know my my husband had to

1:12:11

help me shower he had to wash my hair because you can't lift your arms after a double

1:12:17

mastectomy for almost a month it's impossible the pain is excruciating if you try I I tried by mistake and uh you

1:12:26

know you only make that mistake one time so and then after he washed my hair I was like

1:12:33

um you're gonna have to brush it

1:12:39

I guess no no dude with short hair really understands what's involved with

1:12:45

Clover through right right I'm like I need a comb or a brush through this wad

1:12:50

of you're like see why I want Cher's hair come on exactly

1:12:57

oh my gosh this has been so much fun and I really appreciate you being vulnerable

1:13:04

and sharing your story and and maybe just one last thing I'll ask you is is

1:13:10

if you going through this had any kind of like words of advice or words of

1:13:16

wisdom to somebody who's in your position what would you say to them say ask for help

1:13:22

you know I don't know why but like my mom's generation she was shocked that I

1:13:30

was telling people that I put it on social media because in her generation they didn't talk about that kind of

1:13:36

thing and I couldn't imagine going through this in some isolation bubble so

1:13:43

I would say ask for help don't need to bite any bullets and get through it right it's not it's not time to be

1:13:49

strong man it's you know it's time to just be real that's so great that's beautiful

1:13:55

cat I can't wait to see you in person and give you a big fat hug thanks for this talk thanks Douglas all right have

1:14:02

a good one great talk Douglas great talk with cat cat thank you again for sharing your

1:14:08

voice and and um everything you've got uh to give here to our little industry so oh and she was a pretty powerful word

1:14:14

she's such a support to me too I mean a lot of the stuff that she went through with cancer my situation isn't

1:14:20

life-threatening of course but she had so many comforting inspiring words that

1:14:27

are getting my head on straight with what I have to deal with well they're inspiring words for all of

1:14:33

us especially dealing with like I mean we're all God I still feel like I'm one of the younger people on the circuit I'm like

1:14:39

I'm in you know we're both the same age we're 51. um 52 here at the end of next month but

1:14:45

uh we are all going to be facing these little Health hiccups and hopefully there are things that we can get to the

1:14:51

other side of and if I could just get that cadmium brush out of my mouth while I'm working and uh you know it's just

1:14:59

the dangers that we all face but we're all going to be dealing with little little health things uh here on out

1:15:06

right yeah and her advice on how for me to not get into that dark thinking I know you and I talked about this last

1:15:12

year when you were experiencing your Achilles tear it's hard not to get dark it's hard not to feel like this is how

1:15:20

it is for me now this is this is my new normal and and then doing shows and

1:15:26

having like the last show I did it it really wiped the floor with me I mean I

1:15:31

could not function after the weekend and I had to to put in a cancel isolation for my next show I really wanted to go

1:15:38

do the show I needed to do the next show but I had to cancel yeah that's a huge bummer but I mean we

1:15:44

the only thing we can do is to kind of face it with whatever kind of Grace we have I I don't have any to be honest

1:15:51

um next time I go down I've already promised my wife I'm I'm going into therapy okay yeah uh no shame in the in

1:15:58

the mental health game I'll definitely go talk to somebody I I just I can't handle it myself and I realized that

1:16:04

last time I went down so yeah for sure in regards to canceling my last show I

1:16:09

do want to send out a thank you to the show for being like so gracious and

1:16:15

offering me you know my booth refund and you know I really believe that if a show

1:16:21

can if they can fill your spot and they can give you a hardship refund if you're

1:16:27

in crisis with your health or death in the family or something like that that

1:16:32

it should become an industry standard that that they take care of us like that you know another thing it's it's like

1:16:39

this double-edged sword I know a lot of art show folks out there are like well why should I tell them I'm canceling

1:16:46

when they're not going to give me my money back and that's kind of a dick move yeah uh honestly because somebody's

1:16:51

sitting there at home going oh my god I've got the mortgage coming up and I've got this and I don't have

1:16:57

enough here and I could really use it use a show or it's always the right thing to do to cancel when you know

1:17:02

you're going to cancel but I I know that the incentive sometimes is not there if people aren't going to pay him back yeah

1:17:08

yeah I can understand that side of it it's hard but I think to the Greater Community to all of us out there we're

1:17:15

all in this together and we can all say that we we know what it's like to be on that that last couple of dollars and

1:17:22

we're like where's the next windfall coming from and that show can turn things around so it's really important to to think of that put ourselves in

1:17:30

that you know situation and it's all been said before we are you know art Carneys we are truck drivers we are

1:17:37

gamblers right I mean we have that faith we put that Faith out there that that

1:17:42

things are going to come through for us even when things are looking a little bit Bleak either that or it's like or

1:17:48

like gamblers where we we think our lottery ticket is going to come in or something like that that's absolutely

1:17:53

you get that acceptance you know you're I'm only one more acceptance away from a successful year I just can't get that

1:18:00

show man I gotta get that show and after all of those yucks Douglas I

1:18:06

do feel like we need to end on kind of a somber note before we sign off for today's episode I just wanted to pay a

1:18:14

quick tribute to a dear friend who we lost yesterday Vicky Martin She's a

1:18:19

Roadshow artist she's been out there with with Lance for many many years out there she's a huge member of the tribe

1:18:26

Douglas and uh it's these kind of losses um we can't take easily and they're kind

1:18:33

of huge blows to our entire Community you knew her a lot better than I did and my heart's out to you and and all of her

1:18:40

friends all of us so special she's definitely the boss of of that operation

1:18:45

I I think back to your conversation we've talked about it a couple times this episode about Dolan and Ali Marie

1:18:52

she was the business part part of the landsman furniture company and she was a

1:18:59

driving force and Lance used to sing the Praises of what an amazing business

1:19:05

person she was for their their business and so we're all gathering around their Booth uh Saturday night five o'clock and

1:19:12

it was like a rain out weekend this was the Bayou City where I think 10 people came through the gate the entire weekend

1:19:18

I think they shut the show down early on Sunday anyway we're standing around at the end of the day long wet day having a

1:19:25

glass of wine and Lance turns to me and he says you know how good of a business person Vicki is over here you see these

1:19:32

wine chests that I make I make those so that this wine that we're drinking right here can be considered a tax deduction

1:19:42

it's beautiful okay I just have just one more story to tell about the first time Renee and I met Lance and Vicky at a

1:19:49

show yeah bring it this was years and years ago we were traveling to shows with little kids and I don't know if any

1:19:55

other art show artist feels this way but I feel sometimes like when we would show up to a show in those early days it was

1:20:00

like we were a disaster definitely yeah you open up the back door to the van and even now it happens you know all your

1:20:06

falls out onto the ground and you open up the side door to the van and you're your Spazzy 7 and 10 year old

1:20:14

come running out like Similac and dirty diapers that's right kept in a cage for two days to get to our show all this

1:20:22

happened right in front of Lance and Vicki's booth that year and I was just

1:20:27

like these people are probably thinking what is going on sure but they met us

1:20:34

with such kindness and warmth they welcomed us they told us all about their

1:20:40

years on the road raising their kids how their son was the Gopher he would go

1:20:46

down the line and Booth sit for people up and down the way so they could run to the van and take a lunch break I just

1:20:52

feel like it just set the stage it just left us with a lifetime of great

1:20:59

experiences with them out here on the road yeah I'm really sorry for your loss and and really again like I said before

1:21:06

for all of our losses whether you knewer or knew of her I had just met her she

1:21:12

was kind of a shining light on our industry so yeah thanks again for those good words so to all our friends out

1:21:18

there who are close to Vicki to her family Lance I I feel for you man and

1:21:25

their children Brian and Kelly and their beautiful granddaughter Piper I just I offer you our deepest condolences she

1:21:32

really left her Mark out here on the road and she will not be forgotten yeah there really is no way she could be forgotten it's it's a huge Mark and a

1:21:40

huge void that she's she's left behind so we're all gonna have to tighten up be a little kinder to each other out there

1:21:46

folks and we'll see you next time all right take care everyone

1:21:52

this podcast is brought to you by the National Association of Independent Artists the website is

1:21:58

naiaartists.org also sponsored by zapplication that's zapplication.org and while you're at it

1:22:05

check out Real's website at willarmstrongart.com and my website at

1:22:11

cigarithglass.com be sure to subscribe to this podcast and be notified when we release new episodes

1:22:22

thank you foreign