An Artist Pilgrimage/ Patricia DeLeon

Working Artists! You are not alone!! Patricia DeLeon https://patricia-deleon.com/ grew up in a high-rise apartment in the bustling city of Caracas, yet the natural world found its way to her. Birds would perch on her windowsill and became her first pets. She grew up in the Catholic faith, which formed her love of symbols and mystery. Spirituality is a cornerstone of the imagery that influences her work. Our conversation comes on the heels of her pilgrimage to the El Camino de Santiago. Patricia shares her experiences and how she anticipates they will impact her daily art practice.

Join co-hosts Douglas Sigwarth https://www.sigwarthglass.com/ and Will Armstrong http://www.willarmstrongart.com/, who talk with guests about their experiences as professional independent artists.  This week's preamble topics include Mo Riley's retirement from Ann Arbor, when moments get awkward, new members to the NAIA board, and the flood in Aspen.

PLEASE RATE US AND REVIEW US.......... and SUBSCRIBE to the pod on your favorite streaming app.

SUPPORT THE SHOW
VENMO/ username @independentartistpodcast or through PAYPAL.ME by clicking on this link https://paypal.me/independentartistpod?locale.x=en_US

Email us at independentartistpodcast@gmail.com with conversation topics, your feedback, or sponsorship inquiries.

Facebook https://www.facebook.com/independentartistpodcast
Instagram https://www.instagram.com/independentartistpodcast/
Website https://www.sigwarthglass.com/independentartistpodcast.html
YouTube https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHxquKvRx9sI_DuXRLy-tyA
Mailing List  http://eepurl.com/hwQn7b

Sponsors
The National Association of Independent Artists (NAIA). http://www.naiaartists.org/membership-account/membership-levels/
ZAPPlication https://www.zapplication.org

Music  "Walking" by Oliver Lear
Business inquiries at theoliverlear@gmail.com
https://soundcloud.com/oliverlear
https://open.spotify.com/artist/5yAPYzkmK4ZmdbWFLUhRNo?si=i6Y8Uc36QZWIDKIQfT3XFg 

Transcript

0:02

foreign

0:11

welcome to the independent artist podcast sponsored by the National Association of Independent Artists also

0:18

sponsored by zapplication I'm will Armstrong and I'm a mixed media artist I'm Douglas sigworth glassblower join

0:25

our conversations with professional working artists humans dogs

0:33

acting like humans humans acting like dogs welcome back to the podcast

0:38

how are you today sir yeah I'm doing great Douglas I'm actually uh separating myself a little bit from my custom

0:45

orders and we're assuming again this week that we uh do not have my customers

0:50

listening to the podcast I was thinking about that I'm like oh you kind of like told what you're a little behind the

0:55

scenes business secrets you know I did not I did not I have uh I have a really

1:02

great clients that are being really understanding with um all of my lives

1:13

will send a piece out unless I've been paid it's like one of the no-nos on our business right yeah right but I have

1:19

been heaping on so many different pieces of [ __ ] to my customers that they're

1:24

like we're gonna um we're gonna pay you when we get it and I'm like they're starting

1:30

to see through it a little bit I get it I get it that's okay I get it this time

1:35

you know typically Douglas we're recording in um I don't know we we typically record if we want to break

1:42

down the third wall like around I don't know between like 9 A.M to 11 A.M kind of thing but

1:48

um you are a glass blower you and your wife obviously that the folks have learned so you guys have to be oh I

1:55

think we got heat struck today actually because our last piece we were going to be finished right around 11 and if I'll

2:01

be damned if anyone watch is blown away you'll appreciate this the piece fell off the pipe broke in the oven it's like

2:08

oh I don't know if we are more heartbroken for all the work we put into it or the fact that we knew we were gonna have to make another one in the

2:15

hottest part of the day but anyway did you guys get to it yeah did you make the yeah we you did we got it made it all

2:21

worked out uh we wanted to get in this particular color combination we wanted

2:26

to get a nice showcase piece to take on to the next one awesome good for you good for good for for sticking with it I

2:32

actually am uh I've been working kind of between the cusp system orders actually threw something up and I say through it

2:38

on the easel but it actually is too big to fit on the easel oh wow that is big yeah how popular really big it's nine

2:45

feet wide uh six feet tall and I'm using bigger brushes kind of going a little

2:51

bit more gestural and slightly abstract on it and and having honestly good good

2:57

times in this video that's awesome I know you'll find that hard to believe

3:02

having uh spoken to me earlier in the week we're like I didn't get throw up emoji throw up emoji usually means I'm

3:09

too busy I think it was beyond throw up emoji is there an atom bomb

3:14

it's not good you know we we are recording at uh what like 5 30 and and

3:21

that is officially there we go drink a podcast folks but here it goes

3:28

I've deserved I deserve this beer you should see this painting I'm working on I was uh when I was just a wee lad and

3:36

just out of college and and I I got a job at a frame shop I was teasing the the manager on the way

3:42

out I'm like we're going out for lunch and having martinis and the guy he's not really a cursing kind of guy because he

3:49

just goes [ __ ] it we hate cops yeah cops right exactly podcasting a

3:59

police work all right so uh what's going on with you sir I am back from the set of The

4:06

Walking Dead well that would be my last show I'm kidding I'm kidding it was not that bad but anyone who does Ann Arbor

4:13

knows that there are stretches where we've got those glazed over zombies walking by our booth in fact we're

4:18

freaking glazed over zombies about by by the time nine o'clock comes around was it uh was it hot again there this year

4:25

it wasn't terrible I mean I'm a glass blower of course so I have a tolerance right it wasn't that hundred degree it

4:32

didn't even get to 90 I don't think so it was it weather was was fine no storms to run for nothing nothing like that but

4:39

so nice and easy that's good you're like it's it ain't hard for me I'm a glass blower it might have been hot for you

4:45

right if it's on me running for the AC but I I will say the setup was pretty

4:51

nasty I did catch word that a number of folks got some pretty bad uh heat heat reactions with setting up the day before

4:57

the show that was pretty awful you got to watch yourself I remember um breaking down during uh Lakefront one year and

5:05

and trying to hurry because space is limited and it was a 103 that day and I

5:11

got completely overheated uh during that show and yeah it was like I got really dizzy and threw up I mean I was like

5:19

well check check you know down the cost of all the things that you need to watch out for but I don't know I had good

5:25

friends looking out for me I believe Mark winter was checking in on me like dude yeah

5:31

you sound kind of weird for you even yeah you're terrible exactly

5:38

oh man well I have noticed at these shows Ann Arbor included with this new

5:45

hyper contagious variant that's out there I hear plenty of artists come home

5:50

after their weekend show with covid just like Susie experienced after Denver yeah

5:56

yeah she was she's still kind of getting over it she got a pretty nasty cough so yeah you know we talked about last week

6:03

or a couple weeks ago if you are sick just just doing the right thing and being responsible but I mean I do get it

6:09

if it's not an option well and I think it's the thing that kind of creeps up on you you're like I turned into a

6:15

hypochondriac I'm feeling my glands I'm like taking my temperature and then how

6:21

many times you get Negative until somebody tests positive so it's kind of like it kind of creeps up on you I was

6:27

face to face with a good friend at Ann Arbor who didn't come on the last day of

6:33

the show because it became very clear overnight he had it and didn't want to

6:38

infect his friends but I was face to face in his Booth talking to him the day before feeling his glands

6:45

I was not feeling his crayons thank you very much yeah I hear you I mean he said it sounds

6:52

like he did the right thing and and uh I don't know it's it's so hard I don't

6:58

know we drive across the country we put so much into this business it's like especially if you're cutting shows down

7:04

I'm like I'm I'm doing like you know I'm only gonna do seven shows this year yeah

7:09

what happens if I get covered like happened you know it's really put me in a bind and if one of those shows is one

7:16

that you pretty much can rely on it being a good fat paycheck and you have to shut it down yeah and I mean I've cut

7:23

the fat on my show schedule so I mean I'm not doing any show that I'm not actually counting on anymore right right

7:29

and that's that's huge huge pressure I don't want to get off the Ann Arbor topic before I give a shout out to Mo

7:37

Riley the the director of The Show for 13 years she's finally able to retire

7:43

she's been trying to retire she's been trying to retire since right before covid but then when covet happened you

7:50

know she didn't just want to walk away and she wanted it to come back from covet and have legs behind it she wanted

7:55

the artist to still have the kind of show they were used to so she's seen it through until the new director who we

8:02

got to meet this week Angela Klein is taking over and it's going to be capable hands with Angela nice well I gotta I

8:10

gotta say a special thank you to Mo because I I do think she's one of the best in the business and yeah has

8:15

definitely dealt with a lot of challenges throughout her career as far as the the show has gone and different

8:22

things and Hoops she's had to had to jump through and artists getting a keg

8:27

at the booth and wait wait wait what am I missing here

8:44

no I really think I could not think more highly of Moe and I've given Ann Arbor a

8:49

load of crap over the years but they can't control the weather and they can't control the construction and they can't

8:56

control other shows glomming onto themselves but I think she's done a tremendous job yeah I agree and I will

9:03

say it was nice meeting Angela and finding out a little bit about her she actually has experience in the glass

9:09

studio that's always nice for somebody like me to have somebody who knows a thing or two about my medium so yeah

9:15

what's her background she's got a background in the Arts and and glass and I mean she she's an artist herself that

9:21

I don't know Mr Armstrong all I know is she told me that she met

9:29

her husband in a class blowing class so that was kind of a sweet story for me that's good enough yeah but I do like

9:36

that I've had the same conversation with Camille Marchese from Coconut Grove she

9:42

is also in the process of taking a bunch of different art classes different mediums just so she kind of knows what

9:48

her artists are doing so good for her yeah that's awesome that's really cool oh my God that reminds me she actually

9:55

sent me an email and I've been so incredibly stupidly busy I need to respond to that about her emerging

10:01

artist program oh cool down at the Grove hey uh Douglas uh speaking of Camille

10:06

let's welcome her since we are sponsored by the naiah she is uh welcome to the

10:11

board yes how great is that that is awesome to have another show director to give us that perspective on that side of

10:18

the business and and also want to say welcome to the board Reiko you could tell nice she's joined us as well and I

10:26

could not think of O'Reilly or her it's nice to have the youngins joining us right I have the youngins come in right

10:33

oh man it's uh it's very cool to have have a couple of spark some life back

10:39

into it oh sure looking at the board of the NAIA you've got you and me a couple of artists you got Ben fry Amy Landsberg

10:46

Diane French and there's Evan Evan reinheimer and uh now we have Reiko nice

10:51

and as far as Direct and Sharon Tanner and Camille Marchese

10:58

who's joining us this past month yeah so nice to have the cogs and the wheels fitting in together and getting along

11:04

and and trying to make things happen so a part of our our point in mentioning too is these are people you can reach

11:10

out to if you have any comments or concerns or anything going on with shows or ideas these are some good people to

11:18

to reach out to if you you know not me though not well no not

11:24

I want to talk to these people he's busy he's got a lot on his plate I do I don't

11:31

want to talk to anybody well speaking of the youngins we were talking about Reiko joining the board I

11:37

had a really cool experience at Ann Arbor I wanted to do a shout out here and I I hope uh I hope she's listening I

11:44

hope Hannah flower is out there listening right now because apparently we have this listener who is an emerging

11:51

artist nice who has been enjoying the show and I ran into her at Ann Arbor so

11:57

that was kind of cool yeah yeah what kind of work well I've I've got a little bit of a story here so I came to know

12:03

about Hannah through social through you know promoting stuff for the podcast and and

12:09

seeing her imagery she does uh 2D drawings paintings really cool work

12:14

and her last name is flower does that ring a bell

12:20

um no verkina flower one of our former guests

12:26

oh Kina Crow was verkina flower and this turns out Hannah is her niece and she's

12:33

at the emerging artist program and she is getting out on the road herself so I'm super excited to welcome her to the

12:39

road everyone take her under your wing I am too and I don't mean to laugh but I'm like no I don't remember who do we talk

12:46

that's Kina Kina who I don't know what you're talking about who I don't listen to this podcast

12:54

I'm exhausted oh it's funny because it's true

13:02

this is there like checking out every listener and he knows exactly he's like well I'm getting the ISP address pinged

13:08

from here so I'm pretty sure that that's Matthew hatala that's listening over there

13:13

okay okay I resemble that remark but no that is not me I am not a Facebook

13:20

stalker like I don't see any listens coming out of the Richville slash main

13:25

area of Minnesota I think he's not listening Ottertail County is very strong by the

13:31

way I will I will point that one out excellent yes uh loud and proud and Ottertail County

13:37

oh man okay I know okay I'm not gonna get into this set of metal oh my poor

13:43

aching feet I'm sure I'm struggling I mean I know that's been uh yeah you can

13:49

go ahead for Christ I know I've earned it but I'm sick of it yeah but I do have a Kind of a Funny Story uh related to

13:55

this whole uh injury because I know people who see me out there they do realize it's kind of

14:02

like the snowball rolling downhill it's I'm looking a lot more crippled as as the summer goes on but I am in the

14:10

bathroom at Ann Arbor the place where we kind of like to be alone with our thoughts and not have conversations sure

14:16

I'm an alone guy in the bathroom um but you know you're standing side by

14:21

side with someone you kind of just don't want to be talking about [ __ ] I don't anyway I'm

14:28

not that person no I'm not a talk okay so this guy steps up next to me at the urinal and says

14:34

what the hell did you do I drank a lot of water and I oh there

14:40

he's talking about that he's talking about my right I should have said that I wish I was as quick as you like that but

14:47

but and I do appreciate all of the kind people who genuinely ask me who know me

14:53

who want to know if I'm okay that is I I embrace that and I appreciate that at

14:58

all times but this situation was somebody I didn't know so I'm standing there staring at the wall because I don't want to turn my head and I say I

15:06

was born this way oh my God I just made it weird I made it even more weird

15:11

you know what you didn't make it weird somebody was talking to you while you literally had your junk exactly and

15:18

that's on him he's the guy that made it weird well then it gets worse he gets really upset

15:25

and you're like I'm sorry oh man I'm sorry oh I'm real sorry I just I now I'm

15:33

in a position where I have to consult and make kids feel better yeah no no no no no no it's okay it's it's really it's

15:39

it's it's I'm gonna be fine I got surgery scheduled it's all good it's all it's can we just stop talking now

15:47

oh my God so awkward like uh let me walk

15:52

in your shoes for a while I'll talk to him let me go talk to you thank you

15:58

oh my God so that was that was a fun experience

16:03

did you have to give him a little hug there did you no did he hug him no hugging no touching was involved he went

16:10

his way and we were done all right thanks I don't know it seems like you say something to the customers out there

16:17

and they're like they want to talk about uh one thing that that takes you out of your game and so you try to make light

16:24

of it but then you get these guys there to like no I'm gonna stick with this tell me exactly what's up and then

16:30

they're gonna just keep hanging around until you until you have to confront it and you know there was a topic on

16:37

Facebook earlier where people were I'm trying to remember the name of the person that chimed into one of our posts

16:43

on uh our group page but they were they were talking about getting confrontational oh

16:49

yeah Dan Dan Bond Ruff um jumped in and was talking about yeah about what

16:55

basically what we said about don't make small talk with a little stranger that's

17:00

what the word yep okay but go ahead with your story on that yeah well no I just wanted to bring that up because I'm I

17:06

mean like I talk a big game but I really don't I don't want to ever get confrontational with people because it

17:12

really does throw me off my game and it's like I may not be here to talk to the person who is interrupting me but if

17:19

I really engage with them talk politics talk this or that that I it's gonna

17:24

throw me off my game for I don't know how long it's going to take it may take a couple of hours and I don't have a

17:31

couple of hours when you look at these art shows it's like okay we are a retail store that's only open however many

17:38

shows that you can do anything right so whether it's 5 or 35 that's a retail

17:44

store that's only open it's crazy why do we do that out of the years that's a

17:49

crazy business model so you cannot afford to engage these Jack holes that

17:55

want to talk about things that that are going to upset you or throw you off the game so we have to develop this this

18:00

very thick skin and the spark we don't want to miss the spark with people who are interested because we're still

18:07

wrapped up into what just happened or that whatever that conversation was made people not want to stay and engage in

18:14

the work right so we can we have lost opportunities so so you visualize Paul

18:20

Lynn or you do whatever it takes to just to hearken back to an earlier episode and and my buddy Tim Hooper there you go

18:28

um you know you can't be in a bad mood if you do certain things so you know do

18:33

whatever it takes to bring yourself back well you know what's worked for me is your own words uh I don't remember how

18:40

many episodes it would go it was but we were in Fort Worth and you talked about the k kids who came in your booth you

18:46

know you enjoyed that interaction you wanted to be that Mentor for them but a way to transition to somebody who was

18:51

ready to buy something was very clear yes and now I use those same techniques with everybody I'll say well thank you

18:58

for coming it was so nice to see you and the conversation is over it marks it and

19:04

I've you know what and I've had people do that to me and I'm like they're doing it to me that's good oh good I'm glad

19:10

they said that to me because then I could get with the program and get the [ __ ] out of their Booth right again and

19:17

yeah absolutely and you know what and my work here is not done there you go we're still having artists coming in and

19:23

interrupting other artists while they're trying to eat I gotta check I thought that didn't I thought that

19:30

stuck a big fat fork in it no oh he I got a picture of the weekend of him

19:36

sitting in a chair his little folding chair with a salad half into his mouth while this other artist is like blabbing

19:42

and just running their mouth it's like do not talk to another artist while they

19:47

are trying to eat if I have one thing I'm gonna get across to you lovely lovely humans uh it is a do not

19:55

interrupt another artist while they're trying to eat we only get a couple of minutes and I'm like God if I don't

20:01

waste my chewing time on shooting the [ __ ] that's gonna be our Facebook meme of the week that's what all that's gonna

20:07

go up on the board no one's ever gonna come talk to me he

20:13

always tell me these great stories about these other artists they're coming in we're like I talked to this person they're like they're like scared to come

20:20

talk oh you're gonna be flooded okay so another thing I saw on social media this

20:25

is the the news reporting here uh that other artists were going through it's bad news but it's there's there's a good

20:32

information at the end of it did you see about the Aspen flood that happened well a couple weekends ago

20:39

so nothing really was predicted flooded bunch of damage I talked to Sharon

20:45

Spiller about it she lost a ton of paintings and that fly yes I did not see

20:51

that at all she's a good friend I'm sorry to hear yeah and she also told me some information that would be good for

20:58

all of us to know with our insurance plans pregnant is she I'm just kidding

21:08

I love Sharon she's great she's pregnant with cats that's what she's gonna have a litter of cats no that's that wasn't the

21:16

good news no that wasn't the news she told me what she told me was if you have

21:21

flood damage in your booth and you report it to your insurance company there was a flood that came in here and

21:28

knocked out a bunch of my work the word flood is a bad word don't use the word flood you need a special writer or

21:35

something special those are things that are written out of all Insurance deals you could leave your flap open in the

21:42

rain got all your work ruined my flap is open right now shut the [ __ ] up

21:48

hey yo all right yeah okay so so what do you say so you say I had water damage

21:55

huh yeah but by calling it a flood it's a whole different deal so this is our uh

22:00

Word of Wisdom out there to all the artists uh don't say oh did I say flood I meant it was us

22:07

I don't know that this is great advice to Douglas it sounds like insurance fraud oh [ __ ] uh the the the the uh the

22:15

uh okay once expressed on this podcast are not of the hosts or of the sponsors

22:22

do what you want they're not even of the house it's not even okay it's all

22:27

Sharon's fault all right it's all on you is what he's trying to say you do anything that we said to do it's this is

22:33

this is for entertainment for your own are you entertaining knowledge are you are we not entertained

22:41

are we not yeah no all right yeah no no we're not

22:48

come on will we have got to clean up our act here uh this crude conversation is

22:54

not the proper introduction to Our Guest Patricia anything crude really you said

23:00

your flap was open no that was cool no it was a it's a euphemism if you took

23:07

it crudely that's on you all right all right all right so I love the fact that you're interviewing Patricia

23:13

um it's a really great talk and we can we can kick right into this thing I just I've always felt really highly about her

23:21

and I've talked to Ray her husband yeah and we're gonna kick it down the down

23:27

the line a little bit and and I'm gonna interview him too and kind of get his take too I've always looked to him as

23:34

kind of a as a beacon of like how to do this this business so uh it'll be really

23:41

interesting to get both sides Patricia's spirituality that you guys are getting ready to hear and yeah uh when I I

23:47

talked to Ray here in a few weeks as well I'm just excited for you guys to to hear from this amazing human yeah that's

23:54

really cool I I loved talking with her and I really did not know that I was

24:00

going to be accessing the Deep Catholic traumas that were Unearthed and

24:06

healed in the course of this conversation I went Episcopalian that's that's like Catholic light really like

24:13

half the guilt and not really any of the touching you know without any further Ado and

24:19

sexual anyway no lovely talk with an Icarus spear spiritual human and I I

24:27

can't wait for you guys to hear this great talk Douglas let's let's roll all right here is Patricia de Leon from

24:33

Greenville South Carolina this episode of The Independent artist podcast is brought to you by zap the

24:39

digital application service where artists and art festivals connect I see here there are some new features with

24:45

the events list category through zap which will help us with looking up new shows to fill a spot in our schedule you

24:52

know I feel like I should have something to say but I wasn't really listening to you because I'm looking at the events list right now and it's pretty cool okay

24:59

so you drop the menu down and there at the bottom go scrolling all the way about third thing down in the smaller

25:05

print it just says events list that's right all of the shows appear here regardless of their application deadline

25:11

you can use filtering and sorting to narrow down your search to find the

25:16

right show that fills your desired time frame or location I know a lot of people love that calendar I like seeing the

25:23

list of events I like scrolling through and doom scrolling late at night it's like online dating they don't let you

25:30

swipe left or right but you can figure out who you want to date coming up here Patricia Welcome to the show it's good

25:36

to see you good to see you thank you so much this is our first meeting this is

25:41

kind of I'm a little nervous I don't know you that well I know we're going to discover each other in the next

25:47

conversation that's right over our screens yeah how do I say your last name is at De Leon you got it okay so

25:54

Patricia de Leon where where are you at right now where am I where am I seeing you I'm in my office in my home in

26:01

Greenville South Carolina Greenville so how long have you guys been there we've been here about five years and if we had

26:09

known each other for a longer span you might have known that we've lived all over the country including like

26:14

Chattanooga Seattle Miami and now we have officially put down roots and we

26:21

are married to Greenville South Carolina okay so this feels like uh this is going to be a while here huh I I'm saying yes

26:29

yeah well yeah I did notice when I was looking over your website I saw that's a big part of your story is that you guys

26:37

have set up routes in a lot of different places throughout the country over the years so we're both immigrants Ray and I and

26:45

so that come sort of rootlessness which is positive in a way and we both have chosen not to

26:52

have kids so that allows you to come and go as you please and we're

26:58

self-employed artists so when we put that all of that together it's meant a really wonderful experience of just kind

27:04

of traveling doing art shows and then falling in love with the city finding a

27:10

building committing to it and just having all of these wonderful experiences all over the country

27:16

so it never felt too foreign or uncomfortable for you to say you know what we're kind of done here let's try

27:22

out this part of the country or or set up a place somewhere else I think

27:27

happens we've often been on a seven year cycle so at the end when we're coming

27:34

upon our fifth year which we are right now is that where it starts to come in when

27:39

it starts and it actually happened to us when we were driving to Cherry Creek and we both looked at each other and said

27:46

like let's not get caught up this is we love where we are let's let's not do this again okay yeah you're kind of

27:53

shutting down that uh Wanderlust absolutely absolutely it's just it's a

27:58

magic that happens I think when we're in the van and we just have you know you just are faced with all of this Freedom

28:05

all of these opportunities and we rarely even listen to music we talk almost non-stop when we're in the van wow

28:12

that's really cool yeah yeah that is that's interesting I talked to somebody else on the road recently husband wife

28:17

artist team and said they don't listen to music or whatever that the conversation can go on and on through

28:25

that long drive that's really cool yeah it is definitely the case with us we'll have little you know little breaks for

28:32

some music or like NPR or you know a rare podcast but it's mainly

28:37

conversation sweet it's interesting that you mentioned Denver because when I looked

28:44

last night as to where you were born and and where you got this your start in life where was that again what's the

28:51

name of the city in Venezuela you're from Caracas Caracas okay the and it's

28:56

the Andes Mountains right off in the on the distance or whatever and it to me it felt like Denver

29:02

ah it is a city it's a mountainous City however I never experienced a lot of

29:09

nature when I was there my parents were never really into nature so I came to experience nature and like learned how

29:16

to ride a bike and do all the things when we moved to the US that is a huge part of your spirituality and a huge

29:22

part of your art is that that sense of nature what you're describing here is

29:27

that true I think it is and I think growing up in an apartment in a big city

29:33

Caracas is a city of almost 3 million people and I was raised by two people who are

29:39

not Outdoors people which is very interesting for somebody who loves nature so I think it it prompted me to

29:48

develop a very a very pronounced interior life and just kind of to

29:53

imagine all of those things early on early on it was all in your imagination though we lived in a big apartment

30:00

building we lived on the 10th floor and I remember there was a day when we

30:06

had the windows open that is my first experience as an animal which is a little parakeet flew in our window and

30:13

that was like the beginning of my connection with birds is like this little parakeet became my first my first

30:20

pet and the same thing with like moths and all sorts of like nocturnal like

30:25

flying insects that would come in the window sometimes and I believe that's kind of where my my love of Nature and

30:32

also viewing the natural world as companions and symbols

30:39

interesting so that was your first experience with that and and kind of like you're it's a

30:45

foreign environment so it was like this magical kind of life for you to have

30:50

that exposure to that absolutely and it wasn't until I was eight and we moved to

30:56

the U.S and then that's when I learned how to ride a bike and I learned how to swim let me try to do all of the things

31:02

and until then I hadn't really experienced very many of those things that's cool

31:09

um well my question earlier about all of the different traveling and the and the

31:14

setting up home in different parts of the world it kind of was in my mind setting me up for

31:21

what interests me about the talk that I wanted to have with you today and that was this intense spiritual and physical

31:28

Journey that you just got back from I got exposed to what you were doing online and I've always wanted to talk to

31:37

somebody who experiences an El Camino walk can you tell me about that I'd love

31:43

to I'd love to so it's something that I learned about the Camino de Santiago is

31:48

the full name of it and it's simply the Camino is a path Santiago is the Spanish

31:54

name for Saint James and Compostela if you talk about the whole the whole

31:59

experience is a is a field of stars so and it's a beautiful ancient pilgrimage

32:06

route it's actually a network of ancient pilgrimage routes that culminate in

32:12

Northwest Spain in a cathedral in Santiago de Compostela so having grown

32:18

up Catholic there was a lot of mention of it growing up and then when I was

32:25

probably in my early 30s and I started doing art shows I met Duke Classen oh

32:32

yeah another art show artist yeah he he and I had some great conversations about it and he was the first person that I

32:40

actually knew that had walked the Camino okay so this is a Christian pilgrimage I

32:46

did not know that traditionally it is a it's a Catholic pilgrimage what's the history behind it are people like trying

32:53

to escape persecution or something what is it about they are escaping their sins if you want to look at it this way I see

33:01

okay the traversing of this pilgrimage and reaching the church in Santiago de

33:07

Compostela offers you a plenary Indulgence is what it's called and it is

33:14

it's sort of like buying your way out of some of your sins so traditionally this

33:19

is why people did pilgrimages okay or part of the reason and now it's grown to

33:25

be something which is a spiritual walk it's a spiritual Quest and the people

33:31

that do it now are from all walks of life a lot of them are not religious people and some of them are

33:37

I see I I grew up Catholic uh until my 20s I'd say when I I saw the light but I

33:46

know I saw the light too but so I had no idea that it was it was

33:52

so it's kind of like a Penance it's uh an Absolution of your sin it's an Absolution of your sins it's a it's a

33:57

way to um to to reach it's it's a sort of way of like buying your way out of it okay

34:04

yeah no I remember saying ten Hail Mary's and that was the Penance so I mean was this supposed to be over like a

34:11

lifetime of it was this designed for people who had not behaved the best and

34:17

this was their their way out of it or just it was just a spiritual walk back then it's a it was a spiritual walk and

34:23

it was was it was taken on by people as diverse as like kings and queens and

34:31

peasants so it was not for it wasn't meant for a sinner so to speak but um

34:36

right it was definitely a place where you would

34:42

take on this personal Challenge and offer it as an offering offering it must

34:48

be an extreme physical challenge right so how long of a pilgrimage is it well

34:53

so the Camino de Santiago is a network so it's basically you can begin in

35:00

places in Portugal you can begin in France you can begin in places all over Europe as you would have done in the

35:06

Middle Ages if you would have taken this on you would have walked out your door in you know Germany or in Spain and you

35:13

would have just gotten on this path and it would have led you to Santiago which is the northwest corner of Spain I took

35:20

on a two-week walk which began in Puerto Portugal okay a lot of other people

35:25

begin in the mountains of France and that's about a 35 day walk and that's when that's a walk that I want to have

35:31

in the future so did you pick that entry point based on the physical aspect of it

35:38

like you felt like I could I could handle a two-weeker or exactly yeah and

35:43

then now that you've you've been through that and you had that experience you're like I really want to challenge myself

35:49

to more oh absolutely and there's something kind of addictive about about it I am interested in doing probably

35:57

over my lifetime I can visualize myself walking all of them and it's something it's just it's a wonderful way to it's

36:05

like intentional travel sure where you're a bit outside of time and it's

36:11

just a really beautiful and intense experience and is it a real reflective period of of deep contemplation about

36:18

life and what's going on and that sort of thing or it can be yeah and it was

36:24

for me and then there's other times when you are walking and you are completely

36:29

absorbed in nature not even thinking and then other times when you are having

36:34

great conversations with people from all over the planet so there's a huge social

36:39

aspect to it and there's a lot of people who go for that reason and then there's

36:45

people who you see will walk by you and you know that they're not interested in talking at all

36:51

and so everybody kind of respects each other and reads each other's like body language basically so it's really

36:57

tailor-made to what you personally want to get out of the experience it sounds like absolutely a lot of people do it by

37:05

themselves a lot of cancer survivors kind of in the midst of self-examination

37:11

making big decisions in life people looking for a personal challenge

37:16

and sometimes people traveling in groups and oftentimes people traveling by themselves I met a lot of people who

37:23

were big Jolly groups of people and then I saw let's say this group of wonderful

37:30

people from Spain walking together they were like uber social and I had a couple

37:35

of great meals with them and then on the last day of our walk they were walking

37:40

by themselves so everybody had kind of like come apart everybody was walking by themselves and they were basically

37:46

saying like this is the day we go inward we're not really socializing today and

37:51

then it kind of Ebbs and flows so all right so like yesterday these folks might have been people you guys you know

37:58

could really have a good conversation with but the next day they might have a more solemn

38:03

thing about them and you all read each other's exactly where they're at exactly

38:08

and you might not know from day to day where you where you are like you might wake up that day and feel a deep sense

38:14

of reverence or something that just needs to be personal and introspective completely and everybody just kind of

38:21

respects it your energy Ebbs and flows as well so some days you might be you

38:26

know kind of like leading the pack of the people that you're walking with and then the next day you are completely

38:32

depleted and so you're you're not walking that fast and all of those changes and energy I think provide you

38:40

with the experience that you're going to have and some of it is by choice in other instances you're just going with

38:45

the amount of energy that you have because it's you're you're extremely exhausted every day and does the group

38:52

move in the same kind of benchmarks like let's say I don't know I don't know how

38:57

long would you put it in in a leg a day 15 10 to 20 15 to let's say an average of 15 miles a day and I walked for

39:04

um 12 days I took one day of rest so basically I began in Porto there was a

39:11

few of the people that I left that day with that I saw along the way and some

39:17

of them I got to know some of them I didn't and sometimes you would start talking with someone or notice

39:24

somebody and then you would never see them again so it just means there's different cases a number of things could

39:31

have happened maybe they took a different rest day or maybe they had to give up I invited my good friend from

39:37

Chattanooga my friend Jesse and so we were walking together basically the two

39:42

of us were walking and we would let our energy for the day just kind of Mark the

39:48

amount of miles we wanted to do I had made all of our reservations in advance so we knew that we had to cover a

39:56

certain amount of mileage every day to get to where we were going to sleep that sounds kind of like art show artists too

40:02

right you got to get to Des Moines before you know Thursday at 8 A.M right oh okay

40:09

yeah I was wondering what kind of like travel component there was to that like do you book reservations for hotels or

40:16

are you stopping where you stop or do you tent I wasn't even sure if this was like people stay out along the way I

40:22

don't know a lot of people sleep in these communal spaces called refugios

40:27

and it's basically like that's the traditional pilgrims way to travel and it could be let's say for example a

40:34

monastery which is open to pilgrims and they just have all of these bunks and

40:39

for you know five euros they will let you sleep there there's a very rustic you know shower and there's a meal then

40:47

there's a lot of people who Camp there's people who book hotels we tried to do a

40:53

a combination of of everything we didn't Camp because we didn't want to carry the

40:58

equipment but I kind of designed it so that it would provide a variety of

41:03

different experiences for us I guess I understand now that the kind of the technical and the physical aspect of of

41:09

this journey but then it sounds to me that a huge component is that

41:16

introspective part of it you know so everybody at some point on their Journey

41:22

probably is having Reflections that are deep and into their soul into their life

41:28

into whatever whatever's going on do you feel that kind of that communal sense amongst the people like is there kind of

41:35

a a reverence or a heaviness about that um I don't know if there's a heaviness

41:41

but I feel like there is a reverence for the experience you all have the same intention of walking this for whatever

41:48

purpose you have the same end point you're going to reach that Cathedral at

41:54

the end of your walk so it's a shared purpose and I think there is often a

41:59

desire to reconnect with yourself to reconnect with the natural world and I

42:05

think most everybody is looking to deepen their experience and like reach a

42:11

replenishment of the soul and what got you interested in this I know you talked to Duke about it but what when he told

42:18

you about it and other experiences or thoughts about it what made you think this is for you I just intuitively

42:25

always always knew I wanted to do it and I can't explain where it is I mean when

42:32

you read Joseph Campbell and he talks about a pilgrimage he talks about the

42:38

calling to the pilgrim okay and that is I can't really explain it it's just kind

42:43

of like I I learned about it it was something that I've always wanted to do since I learned about it it was just a

42:49

knowing it settled in and it was just like a no need to even question it or analyze it right intellectually there

42:56

was a a place inside of you that just was like yeah that's for me absolutely

43:01

so the nature component you say that you are a nature person um you're surrounded in nature for this

43:07

walk were there any discoveries along the way that just like that came out of it that you were just like wow you come

43:15

out of it just having such a huge gratitude to your body for being able to do it and really I think for me the walk

43:23

was an offering of gratitude I just turned 50 I am so grateful to have had

43:31

the life I've had to have the lifestyle I have to make art for a living and so

43:37

day to day you just feel at the end of the day especially you just feel such a reverence and such a gratitude for your

43:44

body that it can take you carrying everything you need for 15 miles that day I guess I didn't think about that

43:51

aspect you're carrying a pack with you of what you're going to need for the however many days you're on it so that's

43:58

part of your physical challenges having it all on your back you have it all on your back and I trained for it you know

44:05

I had the shoes my shoes were worn in I had to pack and I walked around Greenville which you know it's got some

44:12

good Hills I did a lot of hiking but nothing really prepared me for the

44:17

terrain it was especially in Portugal there's a lot of uneven terrain so

44:23

you're constantly walking on cobblestones and it's rainy it's slippery there are some mountains on it

44:30

and so nothing really prepares you until you're on it basically yeah because it's not not like it's not like you're

44:36

walking on a on streets that have been paved for your bike paths it's probably

44:42

narrow walking paths up and down in and out of little towns is that is that

44:48

pretty much accurate exactly and there is an aspect of it which is not what we

44:54

all picture which is there are times when you're walking in in heavy traffic so you're walking through these old

45:01

little towns on a pretty pretty tiny little lanes and you have traffic going

45:06

by you so that is probably the most dangerous aspect you know a lot of

45:12

people think like oh you're a woman you're out there walking by yourself that's that's a danger but really it's I

45:19

believe it's the times that you are walking in the proximity of traffic that are the most dangerous but overall it's

45:26

minimal you chose to bring a friend so the two of you could experience it together was that because of similar

45:32

interest or was it coming down to that safety issue that you just felt maybe a little bit more protected if you had had

45:39

a buddy I mean she's she's my soul sister we just have a great connection she came at it from a completely

45:46

different angle for her it was the desire to travel and to have this

45:52

experience with me and I believe that's what it was for both of us it's just I

45:58

don't think she had that spiritual aspect to it but I feel like she found it anyway gotcha it wasn't her her

46:04

reason in right but it settled into her anyway it found its way in that way yeah

46:09

I think there's such a there's such a huge aspect of it as a time to reconnect with yourself and to remember things

46:17

that you had forgotten about your self because you have in her case she is a

46:22

very busy professional she's a mother I think sometimes life you know takes us

46:28

from from who we are right the busyness the technology all of that stuff gets us

46:35

away from kind of the core the natural world the simple things you know what I

46:41

mean we could just just this little this little screen that we have that we've devoted our eyes to so many hours of the

46:49

day absolutely it can just like pull us away from from that spiritual center

46:54

that you're talking about yeah I think even just being in the landscape for so

47:00

many hours a day and that's such a beautiful metaphor for interior states

47:05

there was very minimal technology on my walk a lot of people probably use it a

47:11

little bit more I chose to have it be a very minimal part I would check email

47:16

maybe like once a day I might look at a map you know once or twice a day but I really wanted to keep that at Bay for

47:23

the walk keep your mind clear that clutter will be waiting for you when you get home so completely that was just a

47:30

Solace a time away right you said your your friend didn't come to it from a

47:35

spiritual intention but does that mean you did come to it with that that component was that something you were

47:42

looking can you tell me a little bit about that spirituality is something that defies words for me sure but I

47:50

think it's something that having been raised Catholic is such a huge aspect of

47:55

my interior where world because of the rigidity I mean with with Catholicism how there's right and wrong there's

48:02

there's clear black and white and a lot of issues I mean that that's what resonates for me personally that's what

48:09

my challenges were with Catholicism right and that's what my challenges were what I've always

48:16

try to remember is how it's enriched my life I mean I really feel like it Formed my

48:22

my love of images my love of symbols and my love and understanding of of mystery

48:29

I feel like I grew up going to a building for example when we lived in

48:35

Miami we went to a Catholic church and the patron saint was Saint Agatha it's a

48:41

woman who is holding her breasts on a plate and so Catholicism is just full of

48:47

all of these fascinating like strange and mysterious symbols and I feel like

48:53

it really formed my my visual world like the art from the churches is what kind

48:59

of sparked that initial condition absolutely did you feel that way I mean

49:04

a lot of the times I was completely in a dream world when I was in church I was

49:10

not really interested in what was being said but I was taking in the whole like visual landscape of it that's a good

49:17

point I I hadn't thought of that I did spend and a lot of time our church was

49:22

yeah well our church was one of those churches that had the frescoes all up

49:28

and down up the domes all around and then I don't know maybe the mid 80s they painted over a lot of them and just kept

49:34

some so it became a little more of a contemporary space but before that yeah

49:39

I was looking up at you know a lot of like the Michelangelo type paintings that they replicated in our little

49:46

church in Dubuque Iowa and the statues and yeah all of those images definitely

49:51

and they're so dramatic and they're so strange they're strange like these

49:56

figures being impaled and these figures being impressed upon by other Realms you

50:02

know it's like Saints with little Flames coming out of their heads and I always just thought that was so fascinating and

50:09

so this is how I started to understand the absolute truth of life is like I

50:14

learned my way to Absolute truths through symbols and images now that I'm letting that sink in

50:21

so does it kind of come back to that like when I asked you about how did you know you wanted to do the Camino walk it

50:29

wasn't anything intellectual it was something that settled in so are you saying that these images and these

50:34

symbols taught you not intellectually but internally how to feel to feel what

50:43

feels right and to feel what doesn't feel right right even though ironically the church is then telling you a lot of

50:49

that is wrong sure and I think I constructed my own road map through that

50:55

just kind of accepting what I felt was right and like taking in the the beauty of the symbols

51:02

and the mystery and that is the reason why I can kind of look back on my

51:08

Catholic Heritage and and feel positive about it even though I'm not Catholic anymore gotcha yeah I mean there's a lot

51:15

of Catholics that go running Kicking and Screaming from that right and you are taking the positive that came out of

51:21

that experience and celebrating it and honoring it and using it in your current life yeah I think it was a nourishment

51:28

and I think there's a lot of things that I've had to unlearn that there's a there's a lot of beautiful things that I

51:35

feel like are part of me and like you said it's almost like an intuition I

51:41

feel like it fueled my intuition I I can tell on a deep level you've healed that

51:47

because even to re refer to that time as a nourishment that's an honoring of that

51:52

that you not only did you survive it you got something out of it that you know what I mean it's it's on such a subtle

51:59

level you are completely you're helping me actually yeah I need

52:05

to go back to those times that I need to to re reanalyze and and do a little

52:10

check-in and see where I can find the good out of it because you know I just I I did see a lot of

52:16

the bad a lot of the not allowing people to be who they truly are I came out of

52:23

that period feeling like you hate so many people for just being who they are

52:29

and showing love and right and that just kind of like flipped a switch for me

52:34

where I couldn't honor anything else because all I could see was the black and white thinking I feel like I felt

52:42

that way for so many years and I I was so angry about it for so many years and

52:48

I feel like I've it's I've really come full circle I'm not comfortable with the whole Dogma what what what people are

52:55

supposed to believe within it I don't believe it at all yeah but I think I've found my way to like the space around

53:03

all of the things that I learned through it and and now able to say some of them

53:10

did make me who I am nice would you say that you currently

53:16

follow a like a named religion or do you have kind of your own very personal

53:21

spiritual religion I have never sought out religion after

53:27

kind of leaving that behind I would say I'm always on a spiritual Quest I'm

53:32

always reading and talking with people and I feel like there's just so much to

53:37

be learned in that way I love reading about Buddhism I feel like it's just such a fascinating tradition that's the

53:45

closest thing if I were to have to put my religious or spiritual eggs in a

53:51

basket that might be the one that it would be well and what I appreciate most and I agree with you I feel like it's

53:58

such a good instructional philosophy on how to live how to breathe how to

54:05

how to walk through life whereas a lot of other religions are

54:10

just telling you this is the way you should feel and this is the way you should look at the world and treat a

54:16

certain amount of people or a certain aspect of people I feel like Buddhism teaches you so much more beyond that so

54:24

I have a great appreciation for it yeah me too well I just finished and it's going to

54:30

air tomorrow my episode with Michelle Delgado

54:35

fabulous and he also works in a very similar spiritual type way so I feel

54:43

like I have found my way into this ebb and flow with the podcast where this is a real deep interest to me

54:51

I feel like I am a spiritual person and us as artists as who we are how we

54:59

express ourselves but then also how we make our living that spirituality we

55:05

can't divorce that from it it's not a separate thing it's deeply rooted into the things we make and the things we

55:11

want to put our attention into would you say we often sit or stand in rooms in

55:18

solitude for upwards of 8 to 10 to 12 hours a day and I think it's just such a

55:25

beautiful space for filling it with whatever intention you want and it can be music it can be words and I like to

55:33

kind of like write a little wave of silence and music and words when I'm in

55:41

my studio for all of those hours I just think it's I think we're just the most fortunate people on the planet in that

55:48

way well what motivates what you create what fuels the imagery what fuels the

55:54

process what about that helps you as an artist you know I think maybe maybe for

56:00

about the first 10 or 15 years of my practice I worked with the human figure I started off as an encaustic painter

56:07

self-taught encaustic painter and so I used a lot of symbols and represented a

56:15

lot of these ideas in people and animals a lot of spirit animals with people okay

56:21

and then during 2020 it changed okay I became completely removed from the

56:27

figure and I was drawn to I felt almost called to represent

56:34

the experience we were all having in a way that would represent us more fully

56:40

through more abstracted symbols so kind of like removing the figure from it

56:45

prior to the pandemic you're saying figurative work was what you were called

56:51

to make absolutely and what was it about that was it trying to capture somebody's

56:56

Soul or their Spirit or their experience well what about that was was calling you

57:02

I really I think it's always been an intuitive attraction to the figure and I think

57:08

it'll always be there and I'm sure I will come back to it from time to time I have a feeling it it comes from the same

57:15

conversation we've had of of having grown up with the spirit world being

57:20

represented through figures and religious art that might be it and then the shift

57:26

happened and then covet happened and everything was turned on its head and you found yourself more connected to to

57:31

imagery that was not human right right like nature or what were the symbols it

57:37

started off with the lotus flower representing the experience that we were collectively having of transformation of

57:44

resilience in the slotus symbol and then after that I started having this kind of

57:51

vision of representing us all as stack bowls which I came to call it Spirit

57:57

bowls that's so serious that I've been working in probably for the past two and a half years I just think it's such a

58:04

powerful symbol a way of representing our society the way we hold each other up the way that we nourish each other

58:11

I've really loved just working with that symbol I love it too it also has this feeling of that it's it's like we all

58:17

have each other's back we're all stacked but there is that it's like a tenuous

58:23

situation where they could all come tumbling down yes these bowls are teetering oftentimes and there is a lot

58:30

of tension in them you're right and you're a vessel maker you know about tension and vessels that have the

58:38

potential to nourish each other but they also have the potential to be shattered at any moment I love that image I love

58:44

that that concept that that you know what comes to mind like that that's um that's beautiful thank you another thing

58:51

that that I read about you is how important atmosphere has always been to

58:57

your creative space throughout throughout your different Studios can you talk about that I feel like that is

59:04

one of the most wonderful aspects of the life that we build as artists is

59:11

creating this almost a Sacred Space where we create where we are completely

59:17

at ease my first Studio was an old garage that was behind our building in

59:23

Chattanooga and we remodeled it it became like the

59:28

first space that had ever been mine and since then I've just made a plan to

59:34

just no matter how big it is or how small it is how humble just to fill it with things that Delight me whether they

59:42

just be everyday objects they could be sacred objects I think that's just such

59:47

a again feeling such a gratitude for being able to walk into that room and

59:53

have that time there I have an appreciation for what you're describing

59:59

I also have an appreciation for it being different than say what I do as a glass

1:00:04

blower I do need a space that I can create but it's definitely less of a

1:00:11

sanctuary Sanctuary it's less of a calm Zone where you're alone with your

1:00:17

thoughts and you're like let's say you know settling in it is about like it's

1:00:22

almost feels like you're in a mechanic shop or something because the equipment is noisy and Loud the energy is ramped

1:00:29

up up up up and it's almost like you don't have time time to slow things down

1:00:34

you have to have instinctual reactions so I almost have to get myself in that

1:00:40

place like you're describing when you're in there and you're painting before we step into the arena where we start the

1:00:48

work yeah well and maybe for you it happens more in the design stage sure

1:00:54

you know when you're sitting and drawing and just like that's when you're having all of these more atmospheric moments

1:01:01

you could say right I completely understand I'm married to Rey who was a

1:01:07

metal sculptor for many years right and when we first got together I was his grinder so when we worked together for

1:01:15

the first let's say five or eight years we had something very similar you always

1:01:20

had to have your wits about you there's could be something that could come crashing down on you and like crush your

1:01:27

feet or cut your arm off and there is a sense of danger at all time for sure you

1:01:33

have to be completely in the moment at all times so talk to me about that relationship because the two of you work

1:01:40

on separate bodies of of work you are individual artists as a married couple right right but then are there aspects

1:01:48

that kind of bleed over are there is there any kind of collaboration that happens in your overall practice in your

1:01:54

Artistry no there's no collaboration between us but there are aspects of

1:02:01

running a business together as we do that's when our worlds merge which is

1:02:06

like when we are booking shows when we're driving together when we're setting up a booth when we're selling

1:02:12

all of those things are shared in between us but creatively besides

1:02:18

having a friend that can walk into your studio and make observations that's about it you keep those things separate

1:02:23

this is your world this is what you create and you're not necessarily looking you know same with with Ray it's

1:02:30

it's separate you don't need that because you are your own artist you're your own person you're not like I work

1:02:36

at a collaboration where everything we do is back and forth and passing it off and off and some artists who are

1:02:43

individual artists say how can you do that or I wonder how long that's gonna last well it's lasted 30 years I think

1:02:49

it's gonna it's gonna go a while it's working that's great I I respect that so much

1:02:57

and I think it would be fascinating to have that experience to have this kind of like shared dream or a dream of all

1:03:04

these shared forms that you are evolving together I think that's beautiful well the thing that for me that was a

1:03:11

challenge at first when we decided to work this way we were both individual artists when we met and in school we

1:03:17

wanted to work as a partnership but we were encouraged to work as individuals to develop our own aesthetic and style

1:03:23

which ironically is quite different but when we decided to launch this as our

1:03:28

own business we didn't want to have two booths we didn't want to have two bodies of work we didn't want to have her work

1:03:35

and my work so we came up with a style that where I did my portion I do the

1:03:40

layering of the glass and she shapes and blows the form so that long-winded story was to say that when I would do my part

1:03:47

and I'd have this vision of what I thought the piece was going to turn into it was really hard at first to let her

1:03:53

put her mark on it because or it would be hard for her if I handed it off in a way that wasn't what she was envisioning

1:04:00

she was going to get and on a higher level a spiritual level it was a really

1:04:05

good lesson for detachment and allowing that third entity the partnership to be

1:04:11

what made this work and not the two individuals that's that's beautiful it's so poetic and it's so inspiring and and

1:04:18

what a constant challenge when you have your defined roles though I honestly have gotten to the point where it's like

1:04:23

that's not my area you know right I mean but we do talk later on you know when we

1:04:29

look over the piece and say well what would we do different next time we do collaborate that way but not in the Heat

1:04:36

of the Moment right and when it comes to us it's more like the logistics like I'm

1:04:41

the person in the office who is like applying to shows corresponding with clients doing all those things booking

1:04:49

all of our hotels if you look in the van raise the person driving this is the way that we've you know divided our roles

1:04:55

and I feel like everybody's doing what they are better at and I feel like

1:05:01

that's a constant kind of ebb and flow sometimes those things change yeah so

1:05:06

logistically when you guys book a schedule is it always if you guys aren't

1:05:12

both in the festival do you not do it you know what I mean is it is it always you go off together other we always go

1:05:19

together we're always the support team we've been challenged a few times

1:05:25

because Ray's work is very large and my work is

1:05:30

growing too so there's only room basically for two booths in the van so

1:05:36

like two booths two walls and enough artwork to fill both of those booths so

1:05:42

it can be a challenge if one of us wants to have a double booth and so that is something that we're kind of grappling

1:05:48

with right now okay gotcha so beyond Rey I know that you are in

1:05:55

kind of a creative tribe there in Greenville is that true could you tell me about your situation your studio and

1:06:02

all that it's been one of the greatest surprises of my life I always thought I was the solitary artist I love

1:06:09

my privacy I just you know I love to be just away from people when I'm in my

1:06:15

work and we live in a neighborhood in Greenville called North Main and we

1:06:20

would often take these walks and pass this church and it's a beautiful very simple mid-century church at the end of

1:06:27

2019 it went up for sale it went up for auction we started a conversation with

1:06:33

our friends uh signko about what it would look like to purchase it together and so we did we

1:06:41

closed on it at the end of 2019 and did some remodeling at the beginning of

1:06:49

the spring of 2020 so as we were all about to leave for La Quinta we had

1:06:57

confirmed the presence of 10 other artists who were going to join us in this building as as like a collective

1:07:03

gallery or as like tenants or what basically we we work in the building

1:07:09

these other artists pay us rent but we have a shared Vision it's it is a

1:07:15

collective of sorts we all have different business models but we're a constant support to each other it's a

1:07:21

it's a daily support which is wonderful all right so we're basically uh 12 artists and one interior designer

1:07:28

working Under One Roof so we each have individual spaces and we come together

1:07:35

to sort of open our doors and like meet the community meet collectors that

1:07:40

happens about once or twice a year oh okay right and then but then you also have a common name too right so

1:07:47

collectively we're known as Oye o-y-e and it's the Spanish word for listen or

1:07:54

it's it's somewhat informal it's it's sort of like hey you or getting your

1:07:59

attention kind of a thing like we're here yeah and and how did that that theme or

1:08:05

that idea come about the 12 of us in the spring of 2020 had this big fun meeting

1:08:11

where we spent a couple of hours talking about like what word or what collection of words would represent us yeah and we

1:08:18

went through you know Ukrainian words because again it's Ukrainian and Spanish words because Ray and I are Cuban and

1:08:24

there's actually a third Cuban artist lots of interesting conversations and we just I love that it just kind of came to

1:08:31

this very simple three letters well there's an element of representation you

1:08:37

know lots of different people from different cultures from whatever and

1:08:42

it's like saying hey we're here you know what I mean you know we have something

1:08:47

to say and and we want to put ourselves out there this is that's cool it's true and

1:08:53

we're you know we're here for each other we're here for the community it's been such a beautiful and positive experience

1:08:59

I feel like I never could have imagined that it would be so great coming from a place of thinking in your head that what

1:09:07

you wanted was solitude and

1:09:12

then you have this tribe that kind of just magic I mean it started with a partnership with the gurus venkos buying

1:09:19

this place and then it expanded from there so kind of like the snowball you know what I mean it was growing the idea

1:09:26

kept taking on different components to it right yeah and we check in with each other when we make you know like major

1:09:32

decisions right now one of our artists Glory de Laflin who is a wonderful resident of Greenville

1:09:40

she is working on a mural in the in the Alcove to the entry of the church so it

1:09:47

was kind of like you know you just Shine the Light on the person that's able to do it and who's got like the most

1:09:53

beautiful gift to accomplish that and just let them go at it it's really it's really very very inspiring nice

1:10:01

I guess we'll wrap here soon but I wanted I wanted to ask so this this experience that with the Camino and

1:10:08

thinking about wanting to go back and do it again was there anything from that

1:10:14

experience that is seeped into your practice your art practice it's hard to say I mean day to day there is there's

1:10:22

little aspects of a difference that I feel I think you had mentioned earlier

1:10:28

that you were aware that Shirley MacLaine had said and I've read other people who have done the Camino to say

1:10:35

the reaching of the church in Santiago the reaching of Santiago de Compostela

1:10:41

is only the halfway mark the rest of the pilgrimage is really what comes after

1:10:47

which is yet to be determined so it it might be something that I think is

1:10:53

nourishing you know myself and my work for the next few months or years so I have no idea what it'll be I do feel

1:11:01

like I might be more interested in depicting the landscape as a subject in my work

1:11:08

which I never was before okay but having spent so much time with it

1:11:14

and just having appreciated it as this place where all of it unfolds even

1:11:21

though I never have been very attracted to the landscape I think that might be a place where I might be going cool and

1:11:28

maybe it's not so much literally pulling images from that experience but it might

1:11:33

be the the practice that you put into the connectedness every day the

1:11:39

reverence that you felt every day that that does some of that creep into your

1:11:44

daily life does that stay with you oh absolutely just kind of a deepening

1:11:50

of experience of making time to have moments of

1:11:55

reflection during the day and definitely just remembering how much I love to walk and what a wonderful

1:12:02

place that is for reflection and inspiration and that's something that as

1:12:08

artists too that we get that luxury because we've

1:12:13

crafted our lives around whatever kind of schedule we want whatever kind of if

1:12:20

we need a walk or want to walk because it Spurs our creativity then we take

1:12:25

that break and we do it if we're done with a piece and it's time to you know take care of our body we do that too you

1:12:31

know what I mean it doesn't have to be this rigid life that other people craft for themselves and kind of like walk on

1:12:37

this treadmill through the end it's true it's a it's a it's a total luxury I will um I always feel so

1:12:45

grateful for that it's just the the ability to craft your day to to design your life as we all do and to go to a

1:12:54

show or not go to a show to like create something and sell it or not sell it or destroy it all of those things are

1:13:00

wonderful choices you know I didn't think about it it's true nobody will ever see this

1:13:09

I've made the decision it's done I've made this beautiful thing and no one will ever see it yeah just for you yeah

1:13:17

well is there anything else you wanted to to talk about or to cover here on

1:13:22

your talk before we end our end our episode descriptive enough I always feel like

1:13:28

I'm a visual artist because I don't have a very good way with words but it was such a powerful experience and I hope

1:13:34

that you can eke out some points to express what a beautiful experience it

1:13:40

was well it came through loud and clear for me so if it came through to me I'm sure that many others will will also get

1:13:48

something from that and I love that you said that my good friend Duke Clawson is what kind of you know planted the seed

1:13:54

in you because he is him and ladez and his daughter Brianna they are part of

1:14:01

this Art Fair Community for I don't know probably since the beginning

1:14:07

absolutely and I love that guy and I I

1:14:12

miss seeing him out on the road as much since he's kind of retired from the road right

1:14:17

and hopefully he's been walking walking on the Camino more yeah we're posting

1:14:22

those photos of himself somewhere in the world on his head doing his headstands exactly exactly yeah I know I just um

1:14:30

I'm so grateful for all those veterans out there that have been just kind of like forging the path for us all and

1:14:37

showing us like this is one way of doing it and you know here we come and we're all choosing how we want to go forward

1:14:44

yeah well this was a great talk I really appreciate you taking time and telling me all about your experience this was

1:14:49

awesome thank you so much I've really enjoyed it cool have a good one take care YouTube thanks bye

1:14:56

great talk with Patricia thank you so much for talking with her pretty moving talk I enjoyed it totally totally

1:15:03

um I broke one of the rules that you told me well when we started this this project

1:15:09

I stopped recording when we said goodbye I thought we were wrapping things up and the gold happened after that it was uh

1:15:16

well there was a lot of gold in the episode I'm not saying there wasn't but she is so generous and so inspiring and

1:15:25

she said she ended things for me with I would be really excited to follow your

1:15:30

Camino Journey which I thought was on the one hand a beautiful sentiment and

1:15:37

on the other hand I wondered if she got a signing bonus I'm just kidding I'm totally kidding yeah I'm ready I'm ready

1:15:45

I'm ready for the journey I'm absolutely ready yeah does that sound like something that'd be up your alley uh it

1:15:50

does actually and I've talked to uh another artist who is is tentatively

1:15:55

given me the go-ahead that he wants to talk Trey Taylor uh talking about going

1:16:01

on on some of his journeys down to Peru and just to kind of tease later in the

1:16:06

season and to put the fire to his feet uh that we're actually gonna talk to him put him down an ink in it and the

1:16:13

follow-through Can Happen a little faster absolutely I've done it before I've done it before and I'm excited to

1:16:19

get that recording down and and kind of share his his journey as well it would it would be really nice we're sharing

1:16:25

our set list with everyone I'm also excited that I'll be talking to cat Tesla down the road here too uh yeah

1:16:32

well we so great well she's one of the ones who we bonded over our shared our

1:16:38

shared wounds you know with her recovering from breast cancer and being my situation and and just how the

1:16:45

nuances of coming in and out of our artist's life how much we share with our

1:16:51

collectors and with the world because being an artist it's like we are the

1:16:57

product I mean we make a product but we are also the source of that product so

1:17:02

yeah how revealing are we in that whole journey so that's I'm looking forward to that talk

1:17:07

I'm really looking forward to that I'm really happy that uh you're gonna talk to her because that is that's one of the

1:17:13

people that we're kind of on my pencil list of like oh I wonder if cat would talk about but I just I think their

1:17:20

journey and Cat's husband and how supportive those two have been for each

1:17:25

other has been really lovely to watch and and I'm I could not be happier seeing her back on the road creating her

1:17:33

amazing abstracts and and it's it's really moving to just kind of watch each other kind of go through the [ __ ] we got

1:17:39

to go through yeah absolutely um hey a little bit of business everybody uh we are going to be taking a

1:17:47

three week break in between the next episode instead of our usual two

1:17:52

schedules a bit tight here coming up but uh it's just we're going far from home

1:17:57

uh going into a busy September hopefully so I uh I appreciate you being willing

1:18:02

to take your foot off the gas with this a little bit and and always appreciative of of Zap for sponsoring us as well

1:18:09

that's right all right folks I wish you nothing but good luck out there on the road I hope you sell out remember like

1:18:15

my good friend Matthew NASCAR always said our job is not to do shows right we make sure you can sell it sell it now

1:18:21

and cancel and cancel early so somebody can jump in off there here it comes how about that all right sell it all

1:18:26

everyone have a good one we'll see in three weeks I'll see you soon Buddy Bye this podcast is brought to you by the

1:18:33

National Association of Independent Artists the website is naiaartists.org also sponsored by

1:18:40

zapplication that's zapplication.org and while you're at it check out Will's website at

1:18:47

willarmstrongart.com and my website at cigarithglass.com be sure to subscribe

1:18:52

to this podcast and be notified when we release new episodes

1:18:59

foreign