The Independent Artist Podcast

The Whipple Effect/ Lynn Whipple

May 09, 2022 Douglas Sigwarth/ Will Armstrong/ Lynn Whipple Season 2 Episode 9
The Whipple Effect/ Lynn Whipple
The Independent Artist Podcast
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The Independent Artist Podcast
The Whipple Effect/ Lynn Whipple
May 09, 2022 Season 2 Episode 9
Douglas Sigwarth/ Will Armstrong/ Lynn Whipple

Join co-hosts Douglas Sigwarth and Will Armstrong, professional working artists who talk with guests about ART & SELLING.  This week's topics include finding inspiration, luck vs logic, and the ripple effect of positive energy.

This week’s guest is Lynn Whipple, a mixed media artist, author, and instructor from Winter Park, Florida. Lynn describes her creative path which centers around "lighting up" the creative energy in her brain to unleash a playful approach to her work. In addition, Lynn reveals how saying "Yes" to opportunities that have pushed her outside of her comfort zone has made for a rewarding life.

Hear Lynn on the Kate Shepherd Podcast "Creative Genius"

See Lynn on The See Saw Project on YouTube
PLEASE RATE US AND REVIEW US.......... and SUBSCRIBE to the pod on your favorite streaming app.

VENMO/ username @independentartistpodcast or through PAYPAL.ME by clicking on this link

Email us at with conversation topics, your feedback, or sponsorship inquiries.

Mailing List

The National Association of Independent Artists (NAIA).

Music  "Walking" by Oliver Lear
Business inquiries at

Support the Show.

Show Notes Transcript

Join co-hosts Douglas Sigwarth and Will Armstrong, professional working artists who talk with guests about ART & SELLING.  This week's topics include finding inspiration, luck vs logic, and the ripple effect of positive energy.

This week’s guest is Lynn Whipple, a mixed media artist, author, and instructor from Winter Park, Florida. Lynn describes her creative path which centers around "lighting up" the creative energy in her brain to unleash a playful approach to her work. In addition, Lynn reveals how saying "Yes" to opportunities that have pushed her outside of her comfort zone has made for a rewarding life.

Hear Lynn on the Kate Shepherd Podcast "Creative Genius"

See Lynn on The See Saw Project on YouTube
PLEASE RATE US AND REVIEW US.......... and SUBSCRIBE to the pod on your favorite streaming app.

VENMO/ username @independentartistpodcast or through PAYPAL.ME by clicking on this link

Email us at with conversation topics, your feedback, or sponsorship inquiries.

Mailing List

The National Association of Independent Artists (NAIA).

Music  "Walking" by Oliver Lear
Business inquiries at

Support the Show.


artist podcast sponsored by the National Association of Independent Artists also


sponsored by zapplication I'm will Armstrong and I'm a mixed media artist I'm Douglas sigworth glassblower join


our conversations with professional working artists


Douglas sigworth I could not be less happy to see your smiling face here this morning how are you today is the day


that we just released Bennett's episode and we usually have a little breather a


couple days from each other maybe a week and we can kind of like you know prepare for the next one but we're both rushing


off here and so we're jumping right into the next one there's no way I'm taking my microphone and my little portable


Studio here on the road so we're recording this one on the Fly what's going on what's going on is I am maybe


about five bins away from slamming the back door shut on my van and I'm ready


to head south head down to the land of music and food and art and you know I'm


excited about you going to New Orleans Jazz Fest I'd be lying if I said I wasn't completely jealous my wife and I


did not get into that one this year neither one of us um I've actually never gotten a dip at the well at that one so


congratulations thank you I'm I'm super excited and it's the thing where we got juried in in 2020 so we got we got the


notice in 2019 teen and then we all know what happened after that so there was the constant rolling over of this event


and for it to be finally happening I'm just so enthused I'm really happy for


you also uh don't talk about it anymore I'm really tired of it I'm kidding I hear you I hear you no but listen it's


my first time going so of course I'm gonna sound all giddy and happy about it so I don't profess to be like the one


who juries into jazz fest every single year so I it's funny though that one because of the constant rollovers I


haven't even had a chance to reapply for what three years now so it's uh it's a


tough one one thing you said last week that was kind of interesting that's been stuck in my mind this weekend because we


just recorded it a couple days ago um yesterday about That Jazz Fest thing


you know another what you you're talking about the fact that you know you're


gonna have to be ready to pack and ship things but one thing that I think you're going to be really surprised about that


event is that it's such a a neighborhood thing like it's actually a neighborhood party people just they come out on their


porches you're going to see people walking with their chairs from blocks away just from their own front porches


it's just an amazing neighborhood event it's like International talent but just total neighborhood New Orleans thing


that you're just going to get to be a part of so uh have a blast eat all the food if you're on any kind of diet if


you and Renee are watching any kind of calories throw it out the window okay


eat all the food drink all the drinks have an amazing time uh that's I


appreciate that because the you know this this topic this conversation I had


with Lynn today was really kind of get me back in the game of being enthused


about doing things again I mean I noticed last episode when we were recording and I'm I'm like stressing


about the details about preparing for the show and it was kind of sucking some of the joy out of it and so it just


feels really great first of all to have had her kind of get my head on straight again and to remember why we're in this


business it's to live life and to have experiences and you know to to take


advantage of the fact that I'm going to like the coolest Festival in the world with this awesome music and awesome food


and yeah there's some art there too but you know what I'm saying it's going to be a huge awesome sorry well I'm I'm I


can see you're you're shrinking before my eyes I just you started in I just like just


tell me when you're done Dude tell me I just want to let you know to keep me humble we were talking about being in


this this great show this great opportunity I got a rejection last week which


oh man it did a number on my head oh yeah which uh who gave you the I don't want to talk about which show it was but


it's one of those shows that's a good show and it's a show that I do regularly and and you kind of feel like even


though you know it's competitive and there are some shows that you you stop kind of feeling like you have to hold


your breath on that maybe you kind of feel like it's it's a thing that you're going to be there didn't get in yeah it's like oh riding this wave in this


business is hard it is you know I totally know what you mean and it's it's I never like to admit when I don't get


into a show especially when you start talking to clients when they're like oh are you going to be at so and so and you're like oh you know it didn't fit


with my schedule this year is always my line that's my yeah with my schedule I


didn't fit with their uh you know as opposed to the some of the artists online call it the pfu the police


off is is uh what you get instead of a an acceptance or a whatever you know it


does keep you humbled Douglas but you never know I mean sometimes some of those shows you don't get in and it they


do you a favor you get into something else there was a hell of a weather weekend totally this past weekend in


both Oklahoma City who had tornadoes and then South Lake gosh we also had South


Lake that had the threat of rain all Sunday and I don't know if they ever got it on Sunday evening as at Paco I did


hear that they broke down the show earlier did they really that people were able to some people were were thinning


out because they're looking at radar and looking at the inevitable started thinning things out until the show gave


the actual go-ahead and then it was like get out of town before everything turns into chaos here so I think they were


given enough notice and warning to to kind of protect it that's nice it's it's kind when the show keeps us in mind not


just until five o'clock when the show is over but five to seven when we have to be packing up our precious belongings


you know a lot of people can't you know I I can't throw that stuff in the truck wet you know especially if you're going


to be leaving or you can't unpack it for two weeks and and all that so if it blows over on the ground and hits the


ground we've got broken glass so then it's like it's a it's a losing proposition as opposed to making sales


so yep we all know the challenges you know one of the things that Lynn and I


talked a little bit about but I wanted to talk more about it with you is the


nature of our business of kind of this showing up being in person and being our


own bosses that we have this need to impose deadlines on ourselves in order


to put our backs up against the wall to have that tension to have that that push


in that point in and that Yang in order for us to really like keep propelling ourselves I think that's why everybody


struggled through covet we didn't have any kind of imposed deadlines it's like well if you'd been able to have those


kind of deadlines on yourself during covid we all would have had just just reams of artwork all the way through I


remember one director saying you know after somebody canceled a show saying what the hell have you guys been doing


for the past year now drinking I did bristle at that but at


the same it's like never mind your own business mind your own business quit sending me


emails well we all have to walk at each other's shoes I mean yeah they might not


understand the delicate balance you know go talking about the delicate balance I read an article that was posted online


after Dogwood that the executive director did an interview with their local paper talking about how their


festival and they presumed a number of other in-person events I don't know if


they were limiting it to art shows or if they were saying in general are struggling because they can't get


volunteers they can't get funding they lost money through covid behind the scenes it might be a little more Touch


and Go than we all know right with some of these events yeah that's terrifying I


know we've all struggled this this past few years and we're still kind of struggling to put the pieces together


but it was a scary article to read which is why I didn't read it uh


no chance yeah well what do you think about that


kind of like that riding that wave of uncertainty I mean do you you you seem


kind of like a logical intellectual kind of person who like I don't know that


it's there are some people when you say that meant to be thing about well if I


didn't get into that show maybe it wasn't meant to be that Kismet that like higher power kind of looking down on us


kind of you know how do you feel about that whole topic or that situation uh


part of me I I'm kind of like I've got the Yen and the Yang it's like I've got my lucky shirt and then I'll wear you


know I've got I've got this shirt this short sleeve shirt that I that I've been wearing it that shows the last year yeah


I've only worn it a you know a handful of times but I don't wear it in my regular life it's uh that's only my show


shirt and it's get it's got killer money in it it's Gotta you know it I may have burned it out in Fort Worth but it's I


feel like that shirt's got money in it that's horse


you know I feel good in that shirt and if you feel good you're gonna do uh well


so that I know it's like Michael schwegman and I are he's one of my very best friends and I and I I talked to him


uh a lot about luck and logic and he


does not believe in luck at all and I can't tend to kind of fall more in his


line it's like well it's really just logic you know you have these these things that you go through and if you're


set up with your business plan you're like if I have X amount of this if I can sell x amount of this then the bright


people come along then I can sell one or two of the big thing I mean that's really more of your your business model


and it has more to do with feeling good being open to the sale


imagining yourself in the right place and being there and and setting yourself up for Success than it does luck I don't


really believe in in total luck to be honest total well so you you create the space


for you to be in the right mindset yes well not just that but you you create


the space for yourself to be in the right mindset but you have to be in the right show too I could be in the right mindset in you know at the hearing aid


Festival in Wisconsin I I I'm not going to make any money I hear is an amazing


show and I know that's that's that's good application


you hear it's great come on Douglas all right uh but you know what I mean and


I'm not sure I know totally yeah well an extension from that is not just in the sales aspect of things but something


that Lynn talks about in her book is she talks about doing that same kind of


technique with getting ourselves in the creative zone for making our work if


we're showing up to work and we've got this long list of things we need to do


we need to finish this piece for a gallery we have a commission for for somebody we've got to get ready for this


show and we're only thinking of the external and repeating the old formula it's so hard to be creative and so hard


to bring ourselves to that place but if we create a space where we prime the


pump she calls it we play we get enthused about our work again that then


you get those juices flowing and then you kind of shift back into that lane and that's what's worked for her over the years is to allow herself the


freedom to be expressive and creative I know that's important the problem that I run into with that I know it's important


and I know I need to take the time but sometimes I feel like I don't have the time to take the time to make the time


it's just it's like oh my God I just have to get to work and then I realize like well I'm a lot more productive if I


exercise during the day I can't be productive you know I'm sitting there I'm at the easel my line quality is not


great I'm working on this piece and I'm like I'm taking breaks and I'm stepping back I'm like you know


if you wouldn't just panic and try to work through it if you just take an


hour-long hike and get outside then you'd come back in and the quality of your work would be much better so I I


can't wait locks it yeah it does and I can't wait to hear the talk for me what gets in the way for me


has been over the years the fear of wasting expensive raw materials


so with glass you kind of feel like everything we make needs to have an outcome it needs to be like we're making


a vase for somebody or vessel we're making something that has to turn out


exactly how it's envisioned why I got into glassblowing as I like the conversation with the material where


it's like the material does this and then I do that and it's like this kind of like how we yin and yang back and


forth when we're talking here we kind of ebb and we flow and when I'm working in


that it has to look this way or it has to turn out that way that can really it can really put the brakes on create can


you be more of um I mean you are an artist but you're also a bit of a Tradesman you and Renee


um yeah when she is into like say Renee's into a headspace can she just


be a worker can she just be a Tradesman if she's not in a creative space or can


you back each other um I haven't talked about this on the podcast we really operate as one person


even though we're partnership in our work because the way we work is we


design the work together but then in the execution of it there's one person who has to be What's called the gaffer when


you're a glassblower the gaffer is the person who's making those instinctual kind of decisions as the piece is


evolving and changing we can't step back from our easel we don't have it easier and say should we add a little more blue


to that should we do a little that it's like playing soccer it's like somebody just kicked you a ball and you've got a quickly instinctually react to it so I


take the lead I'm the gaffer at the beginning of the piece we do the layering based on how we've planned it


out but there's variances on how every single piece is going to turn out with how we I layer all the clear and the


colored glass onto our blowpipe then I hand the piece over to her and she does the final shaping and the form which


basically divides the workload in half but throughout the process one of us is


the leader and one of us is the follower so if the leader isn't there to show up and they can't do their part of it then


it's a wasted day so we find other things I guess that's my my question like if you if you start in like you


can't just be you can you just lean into the the utilitarian uh factor it's like


I know how X Y and Z goes it's like a bricklayer almost where you the creative


part has happened in the past and you can just lean into the past works we both have made work from start to finish


as students and Ben like the gaffer all the way through and we could do it again


but our uniqueness of how we do our work is our work reflects the partnership so


the work reflects how I described our situation and if I finished a piece for example if Renee's got a pinched nerve


in her shoulder or something and I finished the pieces it would look like a different body of work it would look like a different artist right on


um so this work that we do is reflective of the steps that we do so yeah those


are that's just how we have to have to do things that's good um so it's an interesting week this week because I


have not actually listened to the Lin Whipple talk yet typically I'll get a chance to listen to the interview and


then I'll you know reflect on it or lead up to it this time I can just I can just


assume or uh guess what your talk is going to be about I'm always like


um I'm looking forward to hopefully getting to talk to John Whipple further down the line but what I've always loved


about the Whipples is their creativity John's headiness and lens


energy and action and her personality comes through into her painting so I'm


excited to kind of lean into some of that personality getting to know them what really strikes me is they have


different personalities but what they both have at the heart of it is their willingness to play they both are very


playful and joyful when it comes to their work and just trying stuff and letting things evolve and creating a


space for inspiration so I kind of felt a little bit like I was having a talk with brene brown uh during this


interview so maybe some people will find a little bit of that uh no shame you


know this has been uh it's funny that you say that because it kind of segues out of a couple weeks ago we talked to


Bennett which is has been actually not that long ago in real time yes but uh they're going from brene Brown and Glenn


and Doyle and Abby uh talking to it's it's a bit of a feminist motivational


speaker uh chunk it's been an powering couple of weeks right absolutely we went


from toxic masculinity back into feminist empowerment so I'm I'm excited about this yin and yang section of the


podcast let's get right into the talk Douglas you want to let's do it let's turn this interview on with Lynn Whipple


from Winter Park Florida this episode of The Independent artist podcast is brought to you by zap the


digital application service where artists and art festivals connect I see here there are some new features with


the events list category through zap which will help us with looking up new shows to fill a spot in our schedule you


know I feel like I should have something to say but I wasn't really listening to you because I'm looking at the events list right now and it's pretty cool okay


so you drop the menu down and there at the bottom go scrolling all the way about third thing down in the smaller


print it just says events list that's right all of the shows appear here regardless of their application deadline


you can use filtering and sorting to narrow down your search to find the


right show that fills your desired time frame or location I know a lot of people love that calendar I like seeing the


list of events I like scrolling through and doom scrolling late at night it's like online dating they don't let you


swipe left or right but you can figure out who you want to date coming up here Lynn welcome to the podcast I'm so happy


that you're here with me today I'm so happy to be with you Douglas I listened to the podcast and I love


I know we've talked about having you on for a while and I have to say the way we


organize our talks does come pretty organically and it kind of feels like


things have their moment and I really am having a moment right now where I need


to talk to Lynn Whipple


it's hard sometimes this job we do because it's not just one job it's a thousand little jobs that we wear the


hat of so many right and you also have a few professional jobs on top of just


having the multiple jobs it takes to be an artist you know you take on the role of author and the role of teacher and


all that kind of stuff and I don't know what I'm doing I just try and share the stuff that I love and


that really is it I had no idea how to write a book I thought I used to sit out there and my little student go I guess


this sucker's not going to write itself I guess I start putting things down it was just like a painting really just


start throw some stuff at the canvas and then start moving it around and editing it nobody tells you how to write a book


I'll tell you that like I thought oh they're gonna coach me along you know nope they didn't really I just had to do


it that was something I wanted to talk about was that an opportunity that that came to you organically or is that


something that you thought I'd like to write a book and you sought out that opportunity it was kind of twofold I


think a long time ago I can't really even remember my cats here what he's


gonna get involved I think it might have been through Carla Sondheim who I was teaching online classes with and Carla


is marvelous and she has gosh eight books or something and they're all


creative so I think she might have put me in touch with someone and then it


just took off from there I see I think she emailed and I sort of followed up


and off we went do you have one book more than one book no I just have one but Carla so she was a great sort of a


cheerleader and and an inspiration you know she's like oh I think you have a book let me reach out to Quarry


publishing it was the name of it when she said you have a book did she mean your teachings like the technical


teachings of paint how to paint or was it more of that mentoring part of it that that you can do this this is life


lesson kind of thing that you have going as well yeah it was sort of a combination I think it was because I had


a really popular class about painting really loose flowers and layering and


not worrying and spinning the canvas and all that and it was so um fun and freeing for people that she


thought that would probably make a good book so it kind of went that path and and then it sort of got infused with


just the way I think about life and you know let's not worry let's make it fun


you know let's do that so that kind of got filled into the book as well that does kind of seem like the root of how


you operate you kind of boil it down to that creating a creative space for


yourself definitely that's a beautiful way to put it and then giving yourself the freedom


to mess it up to muck it up to try something new it's like for me that's the best part but something always comes


out of it you know or you can cut it up or you can just like if you just get something going you know


before you know it something starts to build and you just respond and move and go and move and that's the only way I


know how to do anything I watched your seesaw episode last night to kind of get my head in the lid whistle Zone


it was good it was really good oh thanks you know I didn't know what I was doing


at all I just had like a little camera you know out there and I just here we are this is our little life so yeah it


was fun well that's gonna kind of be in my mind the Crux of our talk is putting


ourselves in positions that you know trying new things or whatever and and how that just organically sends us down


a path that is good and exciting I think it's good I think you have to work with


what you love you know use your own brain and you know we all have a different way of processing so if you


just work with how your brain works and off you go you know to kind of invite yourself up and just see what happens


that's that's my way no where did that where did that come


from I mean is that from childhood is that how you were raised yeah I guess so I never really thought about where it


came from but you know my mom was a high school teacher creative writing in English and she was an artist and we


went to art festivals with her in the summer when she wasn't teaching and she was a painter and a sculptor and just a


great fun mom she did all of our sets you know painted our sets for our school plays and like she was that Mom so I


just it was all around us my grandmother we had a piano my grandmother played piano my sister just could draw like


great funny animals and stuff that's just what we did so it isn't like you're like the lone creative duck in the


family it almost seems like you come from a tribe of creatives a bunch of ducks a bunch of creative dogs


well that's cool I mean I I mean that's the I that's the ideal for any of us artists I think a lot of artists kind of


feel like they are an alien in their tribe of family members like you know who we have to escape and make this this


return to or this Evolution into what we want to create in life and kind of strip


this baggage but you didn't come into this with that kind of creative baggage it sounds like I didn't honestly I


didn't I know my husband John who's a great artist was always an artist as a kid his dad was very worried for him


that he could make a good living the joke is why don't you be an orthodontist like they'd whisper in his ear when he was sleeping orthodontist you know


but because they loved him and I wanted him to succeed in life and his dad was kind of a business guy so they steered


him away even from Fine Art and he's agree in a degree in graphic design so there is this pressure because they want


you to succeed you know but I didn't I did not have that pressure okay so they


were in encouraging a creative field that you could also make a paycheck at basically is one here and you say that


that they endorsed that like they realized yeah he's he's a we've got a creative kid here and we're not going to


turn him into an orthodontist but at least they cut a half endorsed a creative life


exactly and it was all out of love you know they just want him to do well but I


can see you know just I have that experience knowing his family but then he did well you know he's and then his


dad would just light up like oh my God okay the kids are gonna make it like he was so proud of us having two artists


somehow you know putting it together we know I mean half the time we were like we don't know what the heck we're doing


but we just kept showing up and somehow you know we were able to pay the bills barely sometimes but we did it


so he began to trust that we were on the right track and you know as as a dad wanting the best he endorsed our Crazy


Life the parents are okay when they feel like okay maybe the kid isn't going to be


coming and asking for a loan every couple of weeks they could feel like okay they can stand on their own two feet


exactly exactly and maybe they'll take care of us one day you know there's that right you know we won't have to take


care of them forever maybe it'll all work out but it worked out so you said John went on for graphic design but


yourself were you in the Arts did you go to college to be an artist so that's I think another reason now


that we're talking about it that I didn't have that I didn't have a degree I mean I always made art I studied art


my mom made art my sister like my granddad painted everybody was just doing it but I did not get a degree so I


sought out knowledge my reading and traveling and art museums and books and you know I was always interested went to


museums all that stuff but I did not have a degree and I don't like that lifelong learner yeah that enthusiasm is


what led you down the path to the next next thing exactly so you met John and


the two of you were working for for Nickelodeon is that how you guys met and that's yeah we was kind of


yeah and he was so stinking cute and I was like hmm this guy's pretty cute you know you know how you do yeah


I really like good legs and he's also I was an athlete you know in college he had a running scholarship I told my


girlfriends if he wears shorts tomorrow because we were in this film class that's how we really met and then we got


our jobs okay and I said if you wear shorts tomorrow and he just got good legs I'm going in you know I'm gonna see


about this guy I didn't know him at all and he I remember he would be sitting in


class drawing everyone like he was drawing I could tell you know how somebody's staring at and you kind of know I could tell he was drawing me and


then but he was drawing her and him and everyone so there was that weird kind of cool thing so your spark was really yeah


he wore shorts the next day and awesome legs and I'm like oh I've got to


find out more about this guy and the cool thing about that was in this film


class it was uh put on by the state of Florida to train people for films coming here you know it was a big new business


in this area and like Universal Studios and all that that all that jazz all right right because you're in Winter


Park near Disney so yeah Universal all that stuff theme parks out there so


um we this was actually really a good memory we were tasked to make a third of


a feature film this is how this class went and it was backed by Steven Spielberg it was there was special money


given to it by Africa who the president was then that's terrible Rhino bacon or something so it was this really


interesting thing that we got to be a part of this all these professionals teaching us how to actually make a film


and we made a film a third of a film so we had to find our locations and I'm out looking for locations and all these


weird streets and finding props and I found this cool building and it was all


um it was just weird and covered in plants and I was looking through the


window and I saw this cool old horse and it was made out of plaster a life-size


sort of a you know carousel horse made out of plaster and I thought it was so cool so the next day at school I told


him I found this place and it's got this horse and oh my God it's the coolest building it's got old barn doors and


he's like you're describing my studio that's my horse I made that oh my gosh I


was like oh my gosh exactly is this is more than just the physical


attraction this is like this is like the creative soulmate that you're meeting up


with at this point in time yeah it was great because I thought he's super talented and he's fun and funny and


smart he's all the stuff so yeah that's how we met yeah well I guess I had made the leap incorrectly that that you guys


met at Nickelodeon so then how did the two of you end up there from college so


we got out of this film training program you know this and it was months and months long and then we the classes were


held on universal the lot where the sound stages were and


then right about then Nickelodeon came in they had just built you know their big sound stages in Florida on that lot


and it was just a fluke thing like one guy that was in our class this big tall guy and he's like if you go right now to


that Sound Stage over there and tell him you're willing to do anything they're gonna hire you and we literally just


walked over there and said hi-tailed it and they're saying they said do you know


how to paint like they were stressed out do you know how to paint can you spray paint a fish and I say yes and they go


okay here's a bunch of foam this big and uh we need you to spray paint four fish and blah blah blah blah blah and I was


like okay so there it was and we worked there and that started there that was it it was


just like a total fluke and then I'm like telling other people oh you guys come on over they need people like just


come come right now you know and and let's yeah and we all started working there it's a real organic way of doing


things it's like you know you're you're in college you're doing the film clusters you got the art thing and then


it's like we just kind of like whatever thing gets shaking in front of our face we go I'm going in that direction and


then that takes you down a path and then you're going in that direction so yeah working there that laid the groundwork


for working in a professional kind of creative type job did it give you the


awareness of kind of the vision of where you wanted to go personally yourselves like where your life wanted to go from


there I think it did I think it was so creative it was so much fun like we were


just this band of kind of idiots we called the art department and we were sort of off to the side of course and


then we had to create all the sets and the props and the you know paint everything and just we had to make the


whole you know backdrop for everything that they were filming and it was just like kids TV so it was fun and yeah but


we just had so much fun but we started salvaging like parts of the sets you know they're built with Flats these


little chunks of wood you know yeah and we'd take them out of the garbage and we'd like paint on them and then we we


learned how to do all the scenic paintings so we would just kind of use that in our paintings and we were sort


of this tribe of artists that we're all making our own stuff but we were working at Nickelodeon so it just kind of built


ah and we're still friends we have a lot of friends that are still from that time like great people I have a background in


theater I was a theater major in college and had to do a lot of we had to take


all different disciplines behind the theater even though I knew I wanted to be a performing major I still spent a


lot of time in the scene shop and having to do all all that stuff so I following you that whole story I totally get it


we'd do a play and after the play we'd all ripped the muslin off the flats and it would be like tacked to my apartment


room walls you know what I mean yeah yeah right I love that you did that


it makes perfect sense because you have that great personality and you're so easy with just communicating and you


know that's that comes through it's certainly definitely like you do what you like and then the path kind of just


unfolds itself that's it so for you what led you out of of Nickelodeon and kind


of being your own person kind of determining your your own paths as as an


artist you know that was um kind of an interesting path too because at the same time John's family had


started a big Warehouse with what do we have back then at one point we had 42 artists or something in a gallery in the


front but anyway so we had a big Studio that we went to after work and we would be painting all night and we shared this


big space and so we were always doing our art all the way along and we would


do the occasional art show and then we were starting to get collectors it was like all this like oh my God this is


this could work this could work and we just you know so it's like the balance started where things were kind of here


and then you guys with this network of people in the art Department you were


building a tribe over here and this this studio started to show you that there


was life outside of Nickelodeon yes because we could do our own ideas that


was the thing about Nickelodeon we were doing somebody else's script and ideas it was so fun but we you just thought


gosh you know let's do what we want let's paint what we want let's so we we


finally took these risks and said no because we'd get another show yeah most


people would like kill to get that show you know we were doing well right you know working hard and the stability of


the paycheck is very intriguing and enticing and gives a lot of security yeah but it was fun


and learning it was always yeah a lot to do but then we said if let's just put


that energy into our stuff and see what happens and slowly it just click you


know big sale oh my God oh my God you know and you go okay and then we used to just do Florida shows and I remember


when we got you know all ballsy and we said we're gonna go all the way across the country to Kansas City and then we


did it okay and it was great you know we made all this money which was not a lot of money but it was like oh oh my God so


now we're on the road now we're you know further and further out in the country figuring it out yeah the world just


opened wide the possibilities became Limitless exactly it's yeah you know


that that Starry Eyed every time you were in the van on your way to a show it's like so fun it's got new work and


you're just like seeing your friends I mean it's a great adventure you know we love this life it's a fun life it's an


adventurous life and it's a good reminder when it seems


like like the schedule gets packed full and there it's when you start squeezing


yourself in with so many commitments that those Adventures those trips when


they start losing they're kind of like Wonder and they're what am I going to


come across you know in this part of the country or whatever then it starts to


feel like work and it starts to feel like you have to come back to your roots of looking for those those opportunities


for inspiration to jump in I totally agree and there's definitely times when it's work like setting up and it's hot


and you've been driving and you stayed up you know until super late finishing stuff before you know we we used to be


really late people we started we've gotten a little smarter over the years like we just say okay let's you know not


wear ourselves to the Bone and then get on the road for three days and that you know but anyway


it's the Wonder is there no you just have to say Okay instead of just like


barreling down the road I see a sign for the Kentucky Bluegrass Hall of Fame I


think maybe we should stop and like okay Jazz yourself back up make yourself


available to those surprises yeah because that's the fun right right well we were in Sun Valley last uh August and


first time we'd ever been there and during the whole entire show we keep looking up and we're seeing these people


paragliding off the side of the big mountain Hills or whatever right and


Renee keeps turning to me and she's saying we've got to do that on Monday I look at her I'm like are you kidding me I cannot believe that you would feel


brave enough or would want to you know do that I said you realize we have to like hold on to this thing and we have to like run as if we're gonna run right


off the edge of the hill or later on that's going to take us take us off she was all for it so she actually had me


talked into it I was reluctantly willing to give it a shot but they were closed


on the Monday and we weren't there still so we couldn't do it so maybe next where we are in in Sun Valley this year so I


think she's going to want us to factor in either a day before or a couple days after to stick around and give that one


a shot see I love that you were willing to do it see that's the whole thing you know God I've been wanting to do that


forever paragliding like we did we did a whole show season where we did every zip line


that we came to like we had we had a plan and uh-huh Dear John he John hates


Heights he does not like heights


and he's like do we really have to go to another I'm like honey it's it's the blah blah blah this one it's so special


so anyway we he is a good sport but the paragliding thing he somehow always man


oh I missed the turn like he doesn't he found a way to he had a way to even keep


me off of it because I think I even if I go to the edge of a building you know up


high I'll go right to the edge and uh he'll like oh God can you come back and come closer you know he's really not a


height guy well I didn't know it at that point but I was probably taking a little


bit of your advice which is to always be willing to say yes yeah


I mean that's one of your things right to say yes that got me everywhere I've gone and I I'll so many yeses I said I


was like I have no clue well how to do this thing I just said yes to like that's how I got into teaching


online and I remember agreeing to it and I'm thinking I have no clue how this


works I guess there and they flew to my studio and set up stuff and I'm like okay here we go I just started doing


what I do and I was like I guess that worked out and then it did it was a


beautiful partnership you know for I don't know six seven years we haven't done much since covid but yeah I had no


clue you know but but the thing about art you know art teaches us you don't


necessarily know the outcome so you gotta just step in and then you react to the next thing like you don't learn


stuff or I don't all in one gulp like I don't know but if I just take each step I get a little bit of information and


then you know I can get there it's problem solving right it's like if we chart our own course of okay this is


what I want to learn and this is how I'm going to learn it and this is what I'm going to learn by the end of it it's


like no you have to learn it by experiencing it and allowing the discoveries to come exactly it's got to


be open enough that because you you don't know what you don't know but you got to be willing to walk down the path


and if you hate it you just don't go that way you know you change yeah yeah well then you can say no yeah I mean I


mean you're not saying that you you have to say yes to every aspect of the


process you still know what's right and what's not right for you but it's putting yourself in a vulnerable place


where you might look stupid yeah where you might not know everything and you


might have to admit to somebody tell me more about this definitely um definitely


all the time oh my God I'm not sure am I


you know but but what's that that's just life and it's not like who really cares you know if you look foolish or you


didn't then somebody can help you and they feel good about oh I know how to help this person or you know it's not so


bad it is a gift yeah maybe it's it is a gift to somebody to allow them


to help you along exactly you know what I mean we don't always have to be the one


who is in the know or how I mean there's no there's no reciprocal part of the


relationship then if it's all what somebody's doing for you exactly that's a great point isn't it it's like that's


how we manage in life you know and then we help each other and we just I don't know I guess I guess


I've just looked stupid and not known what I was doing for so long I just doesn't doesn't bother me that much


so you've given up caring about it or have you never really cared about that whole feeling of how somebody would


judge or interpret it I think when I was a kid in school and I'd raise my hand when I wasn't like staring out the


window like daydreaming and drawing all my stuff and I get it wrong I would just like oh and never want to do that again


I don't want to raise my hand I really wasn't paying attention I don't know what I'm saying so I did for a long time


like kind of not you know reveal that I was didn't have a didn't really know but somewhere along


the line that kind of stuff will stop you from doing something that you want to try so


it totally does might as well just try it you know and just it feels sometimes you


do feel stupid but then there's a bravery to that or an honesty to that and then like you say people will come


you can ask for help you can screw up you can ruin five paintings whatever you


know you take on commissions you're like oh yeah I can do that and then it's like this gut wrenching hard process


sometimes you know trying to think through someone else's brain and then you just say all right I don't I'm not


doing commissions like that anymore I have a whole way I do it I'm gonna do what I want to make if you liked it


great see I just have to learn I we said yes to a project years ago


and it was completely out of our comfort zone it went from creating a single


piece that you know you could hold in your hands and have it be like on a table or mantle to being something that


was hundreds of pieces being assembled and hanging from the ceiling and so I


worked with people who knew what they were doing and like Architects and designers and they gave me all the specs


and all this but when it came to the assembling of the piece I still felt like we needed to participate in the


positioning the glass on the structure the way we wanted it to so we thought we


had worked out all the bugs we'd gotten like 75 of the money for this massive project


we show up they have the the scaffolds in the air but the structures were


touching the scaffolds and there was no other positioning that the scaffolds


could be placed huh so we're in a position where we can't hang the glass


because you can't have metal scaffolds leading up against it


so I had that moment in time where I thought to myself we have said yes to


something that we are not going to be able to do and it was the scariest


feeling I have ever had ever yes I hate that feeling but but it worked out it


worked out I thought it worked out people who who were in The know who knew what to do jumped in came up with an


alternative it wasn't easy and I tell you we felt so proud of ourselves to have solved that puzzle and it made us


hungry to solve other puzzles just like that that is you know what I mean Greatest Story exactly because now your


brain says oh it didn't stop the the solve came and


now you know the song almost always the solve comes that's that's like this Faith or


something it's like okay it's gonna work out maybe not the way I pictured it maybe you know I need 12 people to help


but it that that's the faith of being an artist I think is that it always somehow


works out like how did we make a living all those years I don't even know but somehow some crazy person would buy you


know some big piece on here's a check in the mail from the guy that's like oh my God how do we keep getting away with


this stuff you know and then you start to trust yeah it keeps working yeah that's that moment of never saying quit


showing up and then never saying quit exactly so and those decisions and those


experiences inform future decisions because now you have the knowledge and


you can trust that somehow it will get worked out see that's the thing like you


can always pull back and say oh man I I don't know you know and then some great


thing will come I mean it happens over and over and over doesn't it in life yeah yeah so that's it how did that


concept even start to to to come into Focus for you I mean was this something


that you have had your whole life or is it something that was there a particular


defining point where that was a realization that that was big for you I


think it was in our early days of being artists dry I drove this


ugliest black truck you ever saw it had hail damage and rust and I could see the ground under my feet I mean it was


horrible and we we literally did eat like beans and ramen and all the stuff


but we were so excited about what we were doing it just all seemed fine you know but we would yeah we would have


these moments like I don't know how we're gonna we just paid for a bunch of


shows and I don't know how we're gonna pay the electric you know we were uh scared and then


something would happen like the check in the mail or some wonderful person would come along and say do you still have


that painting and it would work out yeah so then we started paying attention I was like honey let's look okay right now


I don't know how this is gonna work but let's remind ourselves when the weird thing just happens and it works


let's pay attention to it and let's like write it down let's like make a list like because I have no clue how we're


gonna pull this off and then it when it would work out we would talk about it can you believe that


that just happened like oh my God we are so lucky it's like a miracle you know what I like what you're describing


though it is almost like a scientist's brain where you're like okay this


happened and we're gonna be in this position again let's create the structure


so that when we're in this position again that we we have tools lined up to


keep us on track yeah to remind us that oh my God but then it became this really


fun game it's like okay let's let's just let this roll out and see how it's gonna


work out and then we would just be kind of on the lookout for these crazy little wonderful Kismet things that we all you


know all artists have it or some you know yeah Chuck breaks down and someone's selling a thing or you know


all that cool stuff that just just works out so the stories yeah


we all have from being on the road well back to kind of like this nurturing of


kind of like the the goal is creating a creative space to create the work which the work ends


up being the revenue source for us so it's this complicated mess of things so


it sounds like you mechanically create structure around putting yourself in an


environment that makes you stress-free or makes you happy makes you feel


creative can you talk a little bit about your routine or your structure and how that works with create creating stuff


you know there's a there's so many funny things I've learned over the years one of the things was deadlines for us


deadlines were always happening because there's a show deadline and there's all this stuff but our Gallery but the


deadline forced us to push through and find the solutions you know finish the


body of work and get it so we always have had deadlines I think so yeah but


the other piece of that is making it um I'm looking at my little


art fort out here it's so enjoyable like I have every Art Supply that I'm


interested in I get like right now I'm painting with these big fat oil sticks and they're just creamy and buttery and


I get excited about it I I just get them and play with them and you know I just I


don't I don't know I think the setting yourself up to play giving yourself the time and the space to just like okay I'm


going in there I have no clue what I'm gonna do even though I need to finish three paintings and I got a commission but I'm


not thinking of it that way I'm thinking I'm just going to make see what happens and then off I go and then I start to


solve it I don't know if that makes sense but it has to be a pleasure for your brain you know let me see if I


understand correctly that so you obviously have work that you have


committed to a collector or a gallery or a show and those are things that all of


us can find that when we have to actually step up and start working on it even if


it's something we do regularly and routinely it's when there's that outcome that we've committed to it kind of gets


in the way of us being able to do it freely and joyfully but it sounds like you start with like a


freeing kind of entry point like you will create work that is not within a


desired outcome and then when that starts rolling you can kind of shift gears into the other thing is that is


that what you were saying that's kind of it it's like that's how I know how to prime the pump that's how I know to get


myself in there and move in my hands and then all the stuff starts to work that's I just set myself up to play


knowing that once I get sort of engaged and excited and off I go then it all


works but you know that that little inertia you know to get back in there after


you've been off to a show and have fun and blah blah you come back you're like oh now I gotta get back in there or if


you set yourself up or you work on in my case I can work on three paintings at a time you know and I just get started and


I layer and I you know I just know how to make my brain find it fun so I try


and do it that way and then once you're engaged you know once you really are into it hours and hours go by and off


you go like you're just something works out because for people who get kind of


stuck where they just can't get the motivation it kind of seems like if you


physically just start moving the pain around or you know messing with some


molten glass and not care what it turns into that that can kind of get you out


of your own way that's that's for me that's everything for John too like if


it's playful and oh my God this cool thing he's making sculpture right now


for a jazz fest and he's like having okay best time like he's just having a ball like oh my God this weird


thing this head I made for that fit on this better and can you believe this nail was like the perfect old weird nail


it just you know these little Kismet things if it's that's all it is it's like one big set of kismet play if you


set yourself up for it yeah um I come from I wouldn't say my immediate family but an extended family


of kind of cynics and when we talk about stuff like meant to be or Kismet or getting really


enthused about if the nail fits in perfectly into the sculpture they kind


of look at this kind of person and be like something's weird about that dude


or there's something inauthentic about it it's it's like there's some strange still I mean is this something you have


ever experienced or familiar with this kind of concept yeah I'm familiar and I just I just think there's different


brains you know there's The Logical great people and they hang with the logical great people and someone like me


comes along maybe they go that's nuts but they can see that you're having fun and they respond to that or they don't


that's fine or you know you get your people you don't when I teach you know I teach workshops yeah there's so much of


that that happens in the world like they come in and everyone's got that story you know we all have it where someone


made fun of them or someone put them down or an art teacher said that's not how you do it stop it or you can't sing


your voice is bad blah blah blah we all get this outside critic and then we turn


it as an inside critic you know I'm not good at this I'm not an artist I can't draw how many of us have that story


right and it turns into these self-limiting beliefs like that it'll shape people's lives for years before


they can like come to terms with that and they don't allow themselves to create so I just try and make a space


when I teach so it's like creating is what we're set up for like this is why


we're here like it's supposed to be you know you're making a beautiful meal or you're raising a child or you're


building all that stuff is creativity in my brain so let's just play don't cut


yourself off from that that's like who you are like you can paint that Sky orange or blue or I don't care green


doesn't matter let's just do it and then they get this oh I can just do it and then you're like yeah this is supposed


to be playful you know then you can tighten it up at the end and all that crap if you want but


Just Keep It Wide Open just be be like a kid so like living creatively and living


freely as as a creative type person making work like this does that


inherently make us an artist or does being an artist involve that next step


of the commentary or or having it have to mean something or have a message can


we be artists who create things with like extreme craftsmanship and Joy or


whatever you know what I mean by that yeah I think so and I think everyone's different you know somebody's going to


get great satisfaction out of the most fantastically the realistic painting


that is just Exquisite mouth-wateringly perfect you know it depends on who you


are of course but I think there's a great joy and freedom just by creating I


think we should allow ourselves that and then the rest is the rest you know if it sells if you make a career of it doesn't


matter but you should let yourself write Let Yourself Play Let Yourself paint the


fence I just painted our fence orange and red big Stripes you know I don't care if my neighbor thinks it's crazy


yeah it's okay you know I love it so just let yourself do it it speaks more


to an internal kind of quality of life internally driven than having to define


something from an external place of what you know what maybe an intellectual brain would put towards exactly you know


what I mean like they might say have to describe it or Define it Define it right


and that so much with art I found is you can have a big idea and people they


bring to the work what they bring to the work so I don't even try and explain it


anymore I mean some of my stuff is real funny the old mixed media I love doing that it doesn't really matter you know what I


guess it does it doesn't I don't know I just I think it's important just to create and then it people respond how


they respond you know I just have found that my collectors have


some kind of response to the playfulness some kind of like they just are like my


people it's not everybody but they get it they they're always kind of excited like what the hell is she gonna do this


time like I'm the first person at her Booth because who knows what the heck she's going to come up with because I'm not that predictable you know I just


show up well I resonate with with what you're describing because I feel like sometimes


Renee and I when we're talking about our work we feel like there's an energy behind it that is unspoken and is more


than just Visual and there is an attraction to certain collectors that


they just walk up and they say I get it makes me happy and for us that makes us


happy to know that somebody else kind of gets the intention that's it for me


that's it it's like you'll find your people you know and they respond to your


your intellect they can respond to whatever it is that you're serving up you know and so my people respond to


this weird joyful let's try it Vibe you know but I have to say I also am so


committed in my brain like this is a real important thing in my life this is a real practice that I continue we try to


learn and try and grow and make mistakes so I can expand it you know so I'm not just like willy-nilly


throwing crap out there I mean I have to dial it in I have to finish it I have to


feel it looks you know the way I want it to look in the end but there's a lot of that play in there that resonates it's


still you know obvious I got that balance because the the Seesaw can tip


too far to One Direction where it's all about the outcome and then the work


suffers yeah or you get bored like I don't know if it works for people but I


don't want to be bored like I don't I actually really want to think of it as work it's got to be like really tickling


my brain I gotta have little surprises going on I gotta feed my weird brain


that's that's just you know I love color I love color against color like if I can


set myself up for oh my God that's freaking awesome you know that you could find another shade of orange yes your


life would be amazing right I love Orange it's the truth and it just


I was thinking about this the other day because I have so much color and I'm looking out my backyard there's color


there's big striped balls that are lanterny things there's just color and I


thought I wonder if my cones or whatever in my eyeballs like just have some extra


weird thing about them because I am like delighted by color all day


every day like I seek it out and then I've been doing all this Lighting in our


backyard for you know in the trees and the thing and I just look at the way the lights hitting that leaf look at the way


the lights hitting that color look at the change of it just sends my brain into I just love it so maybe my eyes are


different or something leave that no I I am feeling 100 here we've Renee and I


have had people like get this Museum where we did the um installation for were they did they write about us as


being coloristas and so there is something about that about color


and you and I don't have words for it right now but we're looking at each other and we're getting each other


isn't it joyful and isn't it like part of the reason that you love what you do is because of this weird


thing that's happening with the color and it's just so joyful and I worry about the folks who don't have it


I think oh my God they're just missing did they and I'm always saying oh my God look at the light


people are like oh whatever with the light but I just it just zings my brain


whatever that is I gotta tell you a few years ago we had a designer come in our booth and saying the new color on the


scene and I was getting really excited to hear about this she says is gray oh


great I will follow me everyone full disclosure we're using gray in our work


but I'm it's it's not joyful isn't that funny and it's everywhere


like our house is so nice but uh but but the power of a gray or the power of a


neutral Is So Exciting in painting because it makes the other guys sing so


it's like oh I literally I love myself a good gray like a warm gray and cooler I'm all about that but but yeah it's


just to live with gray I don't oh I don't think so read this gray that but


then you know they have our Pops of color on their walls then uh life is good and life is good that's good that's


why Art's so important yeah so you've talked about creating a that


when people feel stuck or when people are are are challenged with you know


getting inspired that another component to creating that space is actually being


in a physical space with physical people around you who share that kind of


like-mindedness because that's where Sparks start to fly I I find that kovid


really sent us off to our our our little homes and things really went to online


we started to look online at each other and communicating online and it's such a


virtual space that that physical space needs to kind of come back if we if we


don't want to stay stagnant I agree with that that's why when we first got to go back to shows like yeah


it was so exciting and the the collectors were like on fire and the


artists were so happy to see each other like that is a component and I do think


if I was to give somebody advice which you know I always say I'm not a I'm not good at


anything like I'm just you know Forrest gumping my way along but For Young Artists honestly I I don't think of


myself as an authority at all I'm just doing my little way but but you're sharing your experiences which I think


that is that's what we need to do in life is just to share share yeah I think


so too but certainly my way is not the right way or the oh you know the only way there's I don't have that I don't like that actually yeah I don't like the


onus of thinking I know what I'm doing but I do think because our family John's


family and we have had this shared warehouse space with 23 artists right now and we've had it for Going on 30


years his heart his mom of course is an artist so I think uh when I meet these


great young artists and I say well if you're moving you know they're maybe to a new place I'm like search out


something like that because you might really gain so much from being in a


shared work environment artist environment because you support each other's shows and work and you learn like when I get stuck when I work


downtown I have a building in the back of our house but then we have the downtown Studio you can just poke around


the studio and see everybody doing all these wonderful different things and your brain just gets you know inspired


again if you get started you know okay is that a space you used to work in


and then you kind of can float back and forth or is is the you call it the art


Fort yeah the forest is the art fort out your back out your back window there is


that where you are primarily creating your work yeah I I like the art Fort best because we have a dog and I love


the dog and it's right on the water it's this funny little building that's just fun and it's all colorful of course


um and I like to be outside that's my nature so I pull my big tannings outside I have easels out there I work on I have


it all set up I mean I can make really big artwork in this tiny space or


downtown it's called McRae art studios where there's 24 of us and it's a


beautiful space for workshops and it's a big building it's air-conditioned it's all the nice stuff you know nicer than


our old buildings then I can work there and I also made recently this big


storage place to put storage behind so I just have all big walls and I can really go


to town on big stuff or big paper so I've got uh room to experiment uh on


super big stuff down there and then I've got my everyday I have a whole set of


all my oil paints at both places it's kind of crazy but I can you know I've


got both places I can just dip right in cool it serves different purposes different functions and the community is


so wonderful okay and now the classes that you teach


and the workshops that you do I happen to see a few clips of those they seem pretty like well produced and stuff they


seem like a top-notch type type situation can you talk about that and tell us how that came about yeah that


was um I met this wonderful artist her name's Carlos on Heim and I was teaching


a workshop out west which is where she lives and she was in my class and she was in the back of the class and she was


really quiet and just cool you know Vibe and I would look over her shoulder and go oh my God I love what she's doing


like she's just doing her this whole she has just a wonderful Charming interesting way so that's when we first


met and then somewhere along the line she and her husband who is brilliant his


name is Steve Sondheim and he's a photographer and all this stuff he had the skills to sort of start filming her


and he would just film her hands and then she would speak and she was a little camera shy in the beginning and


so they just built this online business way before anyone else was doing it I


mean okay she was and so they slowly built an online sort of a university and


she they would hand pick artists that they felt sort of reflected their whatever


and so they're very Integrity filled they're very smart they're just brilliant and so like I said the first


time would you be interested in filming and I was like I don't know what how to do it but sure let's try it and they


flew in you set up the cameras yeah I said yes and they should and I said okay I'm just gonna make this thing and I'll


talk through it and that's what we did and he you know the production value is all the two of them are really smart and


he's got three cameras and the right lighting and it's you know super well edited and they just have a high quality


there's just a great they're just a great couple yeah so I got to hook up with them


pretty early on you know and is that a regular thing that you film classes with


them or is that something that was kind of done like you did it and it's it's archived or whatever so it's archived so


most all of my classes are now available as self-study so people buy them they


have them all for forever um same with all the the teachers there Carla you know included so it goes both


ways but you also teach a live class like it's a new class and everyone takes it together and this whole online


community it's so well done and I just got lucky to you know hook up with people who are really top-notch so but


um we were doing about I was doing about two classes every year spring and fall and then did a couple year-long classes


together you know that we just did different stuff they're always like stretching and growing and they've built


a really great business you know they're they're they're smart when you say classes is it like if if you did like


spring and Fall Would it be like multiple segments to a bigger package


yeah the way it worked for us is that I would come up with an idea for a class


and we would break it down into say six lessons or ten lessons and then it got


to where I would go out and film there because they have this whole studio set up and we would talk it through and you


know they're really good at you know they have great information and then you'd break it down into lessons and


you'd film each lesson and then you package that and you buy that class so gosh I have so many I have quite a few


big ball blooms was the Super popular one with the big messy flower paintings you know that was a big one but the


essence of still life all these funny little overlapping cloudy strange still lives and gosh I did a lot of the art of


noticing kind of a sketchbooky thing and so yeah but since covet happened I


wasn't flying out there because you know that didn't seem now they're getting like these super well-known Heinrich


dresser this is wonderful you know illustrator who I love like they're just getting


anyone they would ask would want to do it with them I mean they really got a


cool stable of teachers so but I haven't awesome yeah it's


awesome it really is I mean I I recommend all of her classes they're just they're all of her teachers are


really great I have to say really great individuals this grew out of a physical class that you were physically in person


teaching and she was a student in the class have you had any other experiences like that where opportunity is kind of


sprung from the teaching uh yeah I think so like people would


take the Workshops the in-person workshops too or people would take the


online workshops and then one of the gals is like oh I do a series of workshops in Mexico and all over the


different places in the world and I want you to come teach with us and it's a culinary tour as well as a you know that


kind of thing would just spring out of people taking your class or becoming aware of you


it's just all that crazy it just kept unfolding and I said yeah okay yeah let's try let's just see what happened


yeah but one thing that happened a long time ago I was doing St Louis Art Festival and there's a woman named Mary


inglebright she's like um illustrator type but she had a magazine and it was


called Home Companion which sounds very sweet but it's also very focused on


artists and so they came in my booth at St Louis and it was Mary and her editor


and they said we'd like to do an article on you we'll come to your studio and you


know photograph it and all that stuff and I was like great let's do it I've never had that before and they did


and it just went out you know and then all these other people like oh I want you to be in my magazine I want you to


be can you do this can you it just happened because I said yes to Mary and


it was a great experience so you never know right well what are you working on


now any big projects along the way or or you know tell me about that let's see


just today uh we just loaded the van with six paintings that I'm taking to a


gallery close by Gallery zero so that's fun we got that all ready to go you know


big ones like 46 by 48 by 60 and so that's so that'll be delivered today and


then what else are we doing okay John's getting ready for jazz fest and then since I'm not in it I get to like roam


around and eat drink and watch all the music and have fun well we'll be there too for the first time ever


oh Mike you are going to love it I am so


excited but the reputation does precede itself I mean there's a little bit of like the newness makes me like kind of


feel like I'm getting choked off a little bit but I'm trying just to take any present and just put myself there


and just let everything unfold and enjoy everything along the way oh I really


think you're gonna love it it's a different breed like everyone that's there almost it seems has been there


year after year they once they go it's so exciting and they are free to spend we're like the artist the main event you


know is the music and then the food and then the art but while they're scrolling around walking around between the uh all


the music and the goodness there's art I would tell you one thing that we learned I don't know if you probably already know this or how your stuff goes but


because they're in such vacation mode and um we always try and build the


shipping into the price so we can offer free shipping because it's one less they're not gonna take the piece and


carry it around you know the the whole festival sure yeah and that way you just


go free shipping that's the thing I was stressing about was how to handle because I want to capture that


enthusiasm for the work and I don't want them to think about it and think they're going to come back to us like when they


get back from their trip and it's two weeks later I want to capture them get


the whole shipping thing down smooth and they can be on their way and I can


pack everything back in the van and send it to them so that's that's that's the thing with the puzzle we're trying to solve right now good that helps a ton


and you can even put a little sign free shipping so they just know they can enjoy it oh we'll take that and then


they don't have to worry about it shows up at their house when they get back yeah cool I'm looking forward to seeing you guys there


to wrap up here you and John have a very well respected presence out here on the


road I mean a lot of people know the Ripples and


I had an opportunity to talk with some of your dear friends who are involved in


seesaw and you know we are just getting to know each other and my question to


them was is there anything I should know about Lynn going into this conversation


that might make for a good topic and they said Lynn presents to the world and all of her professional ways is who Lynn


genuinely is in private that that is that you are who


you are and I am so inspired by not only you putting your creativity out in the


world for people to Love and Enjoy but fostering and encouraging other people to do the same and making a space for


them so that your light your joy is like a ripple effect and I want to thank you


for that getting to know you and getting to know about your story yeah make me cry that's the nicest thing


thank you so much well I have been struggling I've talked about


this on the podcast dealing with this physical issue my work has felt like


work and I put your podcast episode on um I'll put it in the episode notes to


give her episode a shout out that you did earlier this month uh what was that who was what was that episode Kate


Shepherd and it's called creative genius I was doing the most mundane thing in


the basement organizing and getting stuff ready with packing materials and I found my mood shifting and I


felt so much lighter and the work that we've been making the last few days is


making me happy and happy to put it out there so I want you to know


that this this has really meant a lot to me thank you oh my gosh I can't even


imagine that that is the case thank you so much for saying that that really


means a lot to me that's just a heartwarming what a nice gift to say that thank you


well I thank you so much for being on the show today and I we are gonna have a


good time in New Orleans here next week and so thanks for sitting down with me we are this has been an absolute Joy


thank you you're just brilliant at what you know what you're smart and fun and fun and I relate so much to all of


our struggles together that you guys are sharing and do you like oysters


I don't know and I'm gonna have to say yes because I've never tried them


okay this is gonna have to go on your on your gonna have to try them on my yes list


they're so good like that is like well we're gonna leave in the morning and just drive us straight through so we can


eat oysters at Felix's that night like we love oysters and they have the best


oysters in New Orleans so that's your recommendation is to try those while we're there


oh gosh yes and if you're a little nervous about the raw they have a broiled one that is just okay flipping


awesome the food is not interest with when it comes to food believe me I might try just about anything


you're gonna be happy in New Orleans because their food is you can't get bad food there it's all good it's all good


delicious all right thanks so much Lynn this has been a blast I really appreciate you and a pleasure I


appreciate you too thanks Douglas okay bye-bye bye-bye well Douglas here I am


at the end of your conversation with Lynn Whipple uh expected to comment on something that I haven't heard yet great


talk with Lynn man how inspiring was that yes she's had these opportunities come to her from first of all being an


artist then someone approached her and said hey you should teach a class and the class happens and then this TV


production of teaching a class comes up so anyway the whole thing I'm trying to get to is she does not want to claim to


be an expert on anything that doesn't make her comfortable she just is sharing her experiences for her personally and


if it resonates with somebody else that's awesome but she does not want to be like this is the way for everybody


else I mean she's an expert on Lynn you know and that's inspiring so lean into that so uh the fact that people respond


to her she's an expert on herself so just be that she's an amazing artist and


an amazing human so and knowing yourself and knowing what works for you some people have trouble defining all that


stuff it takes sometimes you know when you come from a tribe of people who are


different if when you're the alien in the tribe it takes a while to shake off all that baggage before you kind of know


who you are individually lint kind of came out of the gate fully formed in that respect she she had this nurturing


tribe of people that were all artists and that just kind of that's that's what produces yeah so I reject that Lynn I


reject you saying that you're not an expert all you have to do is be an expert on yourself and we're just gonna uh take take a little uh piece of that


this week you know I really was genuine when I I wanted to thank her for what


she did for me this week but also you know the ripple effect that her


brightness has on the artist's Community getting ready for this interview I


wanted to re-watch her video that was shown on seesaw last year that was a


project on YouTube that Kina Crow Chris dalquist and Beth bojorski put on that


was a really in entertaining those videos are still up they interviewed some of our favorite folks and there's


some really entertaining talks that are on there well they really showcased artists while we were all in lockdown


are for each other and also for collectors so that they could you know kind of see behind the scenes and see in


people's Studios which are still live you can you can look up seesaw on YouTube and watch their whole series but


anyway I watched the segment with Lynn Whipple and at the end of it Keena


shared a very touching moment she shared that when she wanted to get into the art


show world and transition out of working in TV she was working at Nickelodeon and somebody said you know what you should


reach out to a friend of mine Lynn Whipple and you should ask her for advice Kina reached out to her shared


some of her work and Lynn Whipple they didn't know each other at the time this was back in 2000 or whatever Lynn


responded with this encouragement and this this encouragement is what


propelled Kino forward into her career and look at kina's impact on the world with her work so it's really a ripple


effect of what we do as artists and how we impact others and the creativity that


builds and builds and builds from there and I just think that's such an awesome awesome way to be it is an awesome way


to be and I appreciate you interviewing uh I don't know such inspiring kind of folks it's it's been um it's one of you


you needed a little pick me up so you interviewed Lynn I need a little bit of comfort so I leaned and been it it's


it's nice that we have this community that we can kind of get that kind of comfort and support from so yeah good


times I didn't think we were going to have a podcast here this week Douglas so nice work yeah and I hope you have a


really good trip you've got some really fun things planned between shows and hey I'll check in with you when you get back


absolutely we have some exciting interviews coming up uh Annie bassone promises that she's going to eventually


talk to me so folks that have been asking for fiber artists I promise we're not just kicking the can down she's


kicking my ass with this thing get on the interview it'll be lady we gotta talk well she's a busy lady I mean I


understand this is not an easy thing to make time for but when she does have the time I for one am gonna be so excited to


hear it's high energy she's good people and if we if we talk about it here Douglas maybe we'll put her on the spot


get her to come home oh no she's going to be like oh damn I'm down in anchor I gotta show up


absolutely all right we'll get to it she is very busy we all are all right Douglas thanks again for uh doing this


with me it's been a been a good week and in spite of all the challenges and and we'll see you next time really


appreciate you man thanks for all your work this podcast is brought to you by the


National Association of Independent Artists the website is also sponsored by


zapplication that's and while you're at it check out Will's website at

1:24:51 and my website at be sure to subscribe


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